knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

It should be common sense that if a player takes half of his shots from mid range to three, they arent doubled that much.

Melo took over 6 threes and the same from the mid range which equates to 12 of his 22 shots per game....Now I hope you arent suggesting melo is doubled at the three point line or in the mid range....

I wouldnt care if Melo hits threes at 50%, he shouldnt take 6 per game, which was the point, it's a gimmick and he will start missing, which is exactly what 34%...22%...29% in the playoffs as a Knick indicates.

But since you disbelieve the double team theory, read and understand......

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51669/how-to-defend-carmelo-anthony

This article was after the Knicks lost to Memphis...their first loss.

CARMELO’S POST-UP MOVES
The Memphis Grizzlies are the only team to beat the New York Knicks this season, largely because they successfully defended Anthony in the post. They held him to just 1-for-5 shooting with two turnovers on post-up plays.

How did they stop him?

In the first quarter, Anthony posted up on the left elbow and drove left to the basket. Once he put the ball on the ground, help defense came and he missed a contested layup.

In the third quarter he posted up, again from the left elbow. Help defense came once he dribbled, and this time Anthony kicked it out to the perimeter.

Twice in the fourth quarter, he posted up on the right block. In both instances, a double team came after he began dribbling. On the first play, the Grizzlies forced a turnover. On the second play, they forced him to pass the ball out to the perimeter.

Notice some thing similar in each instance? No double on the catch only on the dribbling.

But thats what the better teams do....they dont double from the onset

Now since you disagree, what teams of note sent doubles to melo on the catch? Name them.

But my question is.....why be so focused on the regular season? be focused when it matters...the playoffs.

If you need info of that, then here you go.....

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2013/05/how-paul-george-is-containing-carmelo-anthony/

Or maybe pictures???

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Carmelo+Anthony/Paul+George/New+York+Knicks+v+Indiana+Pacers/fqR98ctyXZ0

Speaking on Paul George...here is an interesting quote when asked about melo's injury...

“Not really,” George said on Thursday. “Any time he’s putting up 20, 30 shots a game, there are no signs of him being hurt. I didn’t really see it. Every now and then when he got banged, he winced. I don’t think it had an effect on his shooting.”

So Melo's torn labrum didn't impact his game? Dwight Howard had the same injury and missed games. Playing through something like that would show character right? Maybe not if its Melo?

Can Melo stand on his own? Dwight is talented, but is a baby...a mental midget...but that midget had back and shoulder issues and played through them once again in the playoffs.

Melo missed more games last season than Howard did....Howard missed a whopping 6....Melo missed 15.

Just wanted to make sure I knew where you stood in regards to Melo.

I stand in a good spot, i'd take howard all day if i had the choice, and he's a complete tool.

Where do you stand though?

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:there is so much wrong in this post....

nixluva wrote:The Knicks had legit health and stamina issues last year in the playoffs. This team was already not very versatile and the loss and break down of key players made the situations worse and limited Woody's options.
It's why I think Grunwald did the right thing adding Bargnani and the other players this summer.

Woody didnt really lose any options, he merely panicked and relied on inefficient isolations similar to his Hawks days. Hopefully this season when he sees a player shooting well...he hopefully doesnt bench them just to get the star back in, like he did with Copeland and Shump. now i do give Woody credit for going back to Cope after the eggs he laid against Boston, but once he sees the player was performing...you stick with that, as it was evident the Pacers were not prepared for that attack.

nixluva wrote:If not Bargnani then who is this mysterious PF that we could've found who has the size and skills that AB has? We needed not just rebounding but more importantly scoring help. AB has actually been a primary scoring option for an NBA team!!! Adding him to this mix will help against teams like the Heat, Nets, Bulls and Pacers. The only teams we really have to worry about. That is a statement of fact.

The point is not the skills, i dont see why you keep harping on that as if anyone is questioning his skills...no one is, so why keep saying the same thing over and over?

The key though is efficiency and Bargnani has no such skill in that area, he isnt even solid in his strongest area...he really can't shoot at all 47% from a big man is pathetic.... and is merely a scorer who needs volume and a green light....that doesnt bode well for a successful playoff run.

Then combine the simple facts he doesnt rebound puts more strain on a frontcourt that needs help in that area.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are not going to out defend these other top teams. They have to deal with reality. This teams will have to be a more efficient scoring team and present more problems than these teams can defend. It's an arms race and last year the Knicks ran out of ammunition in the playoffs. That is why they added more scoring! WHY? Because contrary to popular opinion it's harder to find superior defensive talent than it is to find scorers like Bargnani. Try to name the defensive player we could get that would shut down Rose, DWill, Lopez, Hibbert or Lebron? These are the kinds of players we'd have to beat to get to the finals.

The fact they cant defend on the level of the other teams is a serious problem and bargnani makes that aspect worse.

The only player worth noting you've mentioned is LeBron and no one is stopping him individually.

I'm sure you watched LeBron this post season, he demolished teams primarily by facilitating early then taking over, which is why solid rotations to close out on shooters is imperative, and once again....Bargnani is terrible in this aspect, as is Beno even though I like that signing.

You wanna have a shot to beat LeBron...take away his trust factor in his teammates and force him to go against himself and try to do it all.

But enough with LeBron, no point of talking about the player the Knicks havent and likely wont face.

nixluva wrote:This team will have enough defense. Especially if they can add another C to back up Tyson. Even if they don't this team is not a pushover defensively. They needed to step up another level offensively and they may have done that with this roster. It has everything they had last year and more.

The offense was proven to be a gimmick...you dont go from #3 to last any other way.

Thats entirely on Woody, he needs to develop an actual offense that makes defenses pay for committing on shooters and single covering the post. it was absolutely disgusting to watch one dude guard Melo every night for pretty much the whole season...he was barely if ever double teamed, and while in theory Bargnani could help with that...he wont.

Melo was single covered because he isnt efficient enough and is allowed to do things that help make a defenders job easier....like for instance launching 6 threes per contest as the starting PF, which is over twice the amount he's averaged over his career.

In the playoffs as we already know the defenses will be better so already low efficiency naturally gets worse even with more shot attempts, and that is something Melo Bargnani and the other could take a page from watching other teams....facilitate.

One of Melo's best seasons in Denver he averaged 4 dimes in the playoffs playing with Chauncey Billups, so the coaching staff or even the fans shouldn't allow him to play any other way...and the same goes for Bargnani.

if you can create your own shot...create for others too.

They didn't run out of ammunition, the guns were still there, they just dont have accurate marksmen...Melo included.

+1

well done!

Well done if you like inaccurate accounts of what happened but you know this.

If you would have said Melo wasn't Doubled during the playoffs I would have not said anything because technically you would have been right but you said during the season where tbere have been video evidence and articles disproving that notion.

Then you comment on how a high volume/ efficient 3pt shooter(around 38% as a Knick) shouldn't shoot 3s.

Also, how does Bargnani make things worse when he will take minutes from Novak and Cope to players who where terrible team/man defenders? At least Bargs is a very good iso/post defender.

It should be common sense that if a player takes half of his shots from mid range to three, they arent doubled that much.

Melo took over 6 threes and the same from the mid range which equates to 12 of his 22 shots per game....Now I hope you arent suggesting melo is doubled at the three point line or in the mid range....

I wouldnt care if Melo hits threes at 50%, he shouldnt take 6 per game, which was the point, it's a gimmick and he will start missing, which is exactly what 34%...22%...29% in the playoffs as a Knick indicates.

But since you disbelieve the double team theory, read and understand......

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51669/how-to-defend-carmelo-anthony

This article was after the Knicks lost to Memphis...their first loss.

CARMELO’S POST-UP MOVES
The Memphis Grizzlies are the only team to beat the New York Knicks this season, largely because they successfully defended Anthony in the post. They held him to just 1-for-5 shooting with two turnovers on post-up plays.

How did they stop him?

In the first quarter, Anthony posted up on the left elbow and drove left to the basket. Once he put the ball on the ground, help defense came and he missed a contested layup.

In the third quarter he posted up, again from the left elbow. Help defense came once he dribbled, and this time Anthony kicked it out to the perimeter.

Twice in the fourth quarter, he posted up on the right block. In both instances, a double team came after he began dribbling. On the first play, the Grizzlies forced a turnover. On the second play, they forced him to pass the ball out to the perimeter.

Notice some thing similar in each instance? No double on the catch only on the dribbling.

But thats what the better teams do....they dont double from the onset

Now since you disagree, what teams of note sent doubles to melo on the catch? Name them.

But my question is.....why be so focused on the regular season? be focused when it matters...the playoffs.

If you need info of that, then here you go.....

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2013/05/how-paul-george-is-containing-carmelo-anthony/

Or maybe pictures???

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Carmelo+Anthony/Paul+George/New+York+Knicks+v+Indiana+Pacers/fqR98ctyXZ0

Speaking on Paul George...here is an interesting quote when asked about melo's injury...

“Not really,” George said on Thursday. “Any time he’s putting up 20, 30 shots a game, there are no signs of him being hurt. I didn’t really see it. Every now and then when he got banged, he winced. I don’t think it had an effect on his shooting.”

So Melo's torn labrum didn't impact his game? Dwight Howard had the same injury and missed games. Playing through something like that would show character right? Maybe not if its Melo?

Can Melo stand on his own? Dwight is talented, but is a baby...a mental midget...but that midget had back and shoulder issues and played through them once again in the playoffs.

Melo missed more games last season than Howard did....Howard missed a whopping 6....Melo missed 15.

Just wanted to make sure I knew where you stood in regards to Melo.

I stand in a good spot, i'd take howard all day if i had the choice, and he's a complete tool.

Where do you stand though?

Then I don't think you would bring up the number of games Melo missed when he missed them because Howard try to end his career. I think Melo showed character playing through the shoulder issue.

There's no "character" in playing hurt, most players have pain that far into the season, he gets no kool-aide shots for that.

nixluva wrote:
Just about everything that you present as a big problem for the Knicks is a very correctable problem.
A lot of the issues are about coaching and execution. Some are about the skills of the talent on the roster. That's why the Knicks made the roster moves they have. I think they addressed many of the issues this team had. They can't address every flaw, but they made a good effort to limit the problems of last year.

What problems did they limit? We still have no backup center, so Tyson is once again alone amongst the sharks.

Now mind you, the deal made I dont like is Bargnani, I dont expect alot from the others either and their roles should fit them well.

But Bargnani is poor in the one area he does well, that doesnt cancel; out the gaping holes he will create, but enough of him....I dont see what you do.

nixluva wrote:Woody did in fact lose options. JR and Kidd in particular fell off dramatically. They were a big part of making teams pay for packing the paint area. In the end coaches will go with guys they trust and sometimes to a fault. I was very upset that Woody didn't use Cope, Shump and Prigs more, but that doesn't erase the fact that we missed production from those 2 players who had a huge role for the team. I also didn't like the fact that yet again Woody relied too much on ISO plays in the playoffs, but what will help in that area is the addition of players who can do much more offensively in a team oriented offense. It's clear to me that Woody does realize we need more ball and player movement.

The Knicks dont play in the paint, thats why it's easy to pack it....they need a post presence in the worst way and if bargs is that guy, that is where 90% of his offense would be if I were the coach.

And his "options" were lost to over use...all the bigs with bad feet, kidd playing way too much, and JR being overcompensated to the point of having to play injured to secure something that matters little in perspective.

nixluva wrote:You still didn't answer the question of who the Knicks could've gotten that can do more than Bargnani can. You say he isn't efficient, but that's overly simplistic. You have to look into how he scores from different areas of the court and for AB he's much more efficient in the Post and in the mid range areas of the floor where he's a 50% shooter. Just having him take fewer long range shots is going to make him more efficient. I do know that no PF is going to be able to stop AB from scoring. His presence should make it much tougher on defenses to just concentrate on Melo, JR or any of our guards because you can't leave AB open near the basket or away from the basket. You can't just camp out in the paint and stop AB.

Bargnani stops himself, the guy cant shoot...he's a volume scorer.....and ironically it seems like the same package we gave Toronto could have been given to Phx.....for Scola.

Ironically not only does he make over half of what Bargnani does...his last year isnt even guaranteed, so he comes off the books even sooner.

Scola although older than Bargnani hits his shots at a much better clip and while not great on defense at least rebounds the ball and is a willing passer....so sometimes you have to have patience and wait, there was no rush for Bargnani.

nixluva wrote:As for Melo, the simple thing is pretty much what i've always said since MDA was here. Have Melo score more in the flow of the offense. No one can stop him off a screen or pick. His release is too quick and he shoots for a higher % off those plays. That is where the Knicks need to look to get more out of Melo. Fewer ISO's and more PnR/PnP, quick down screens and curl plays. Also have Melo go quick rather than hold the ball. When Melo goes quick into his move it's more successful than when he holds the ball and waits 5 or more seconds.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:
Just about everything that you present as a big problem for the Knicks is a very correctable problem.
A lot of the issues are about coaching and execution. Some are about the skills of the talent on the roster. That's why the Knicks made the roster moves they have. I think they addressed many of the issues this team had. They can't address every flaw, but they made a good effort to limit the problems of last year.

What problems did they limit? We still have no backup center, so Tyson is once again alone amongst the sharks.

Now mind you, the deal made I dont like is Bargnani, I dont expect alot from the others either and their roles should fit them well.

But Bargnani is poor in the one area he does well, that doesnt cancel; out the gaping holes he will create, but enough of him....I dont see what you do.

nixluva wrote:Woody did in fact lose options. JR and Kidd in particular fell off dramatically. They were a big part of making teams pay for packing the paint area. In the end coaches will go with guys they trust and sometimes to a fault. I was very upset that Woody didn't use Cope, Shump and Prigs more, but that doesn't erase the fact that we missed production from those 2 players who had a huge role for the team. I also didn't like the fact that yet again Woody relied too much on ISO plays in the playoffs, but what will help in that area is the addition of players who can do much more offensively in a team oriented offense. It's clear to me that Woody does realize we need more ball and player movement.

The Knicks dont play in the paint, thats why it's easy to pack it....they need a post presence in the worst way and if bargs is that guy, that is where 90% of his offense would be if I were the coach.

And his "options" were lost to over use...all the bigs with bad feet, kidd playing way too much, and JR being overcompensated to the point of having to play injured to secure something that matters little in perspective.

nixluva wrote:You still didn't answer the question of who the Knicks could've gotten that can do more than Bargnani can. You say he isn't efficient, but that's overly simplistic. You have to look into how he scores from different areas of the court and for AB he's much more efficient in the Post and in the mid range areas of the floor where he's a 50% shooter. Just having him take fewer long range shots is going to make him more efficient. I do know that no PF is going to be able to stop AB from scoring. His presence should make it much tougher on defenses to just concentrate on Melo, JR or any of our guards because you can't leave AB open near the basket or away from the basket. You can't just camp out in the paint and stop AB.

Bargnani stops himself, the guy cant shoot...he's a volume scorer.....and ironically it seems like the same package we gave Toronto could have been given to Phx.....for Scola.

Ironically not only does he make over half of what Bargnani does...his last year isnt even guaranteed, so he comes off the books even sooner.

Scola although older than Bargnani hits his shots at a much better clip and while not great on defense at least rebounds the ball and is a willing passer....so sometimes you have to have patience and wait, there was no rush for Bargnani.

nixluva wrote:As for Melo, the simple thing is pretty much what i've always said since MDA was here. Have Melo score more in the flow of the offense. No one can stop him off a screen or pick. His release is too quick and he shoots for a higher % off those plays. That is where the Knicks need to look to get more out of Melo. Fewer ISO's and more PnR/PnP, quick down screens and curl plays. Also have Melo go quick rather than hold the ball. When Melo goes quick into his move it's more successful than when he holds the ball and waits 5 or more seconds.

No dispute here.,,,this is what he SHOULD do.

it's irritating that 10 years into his career that we are hoping that THIS year he will do this stuff.

and it's amazing that so few people in knickland are pessimistic or suspicious.

being in genuinely supreme shape will do wonders for anthony on defense and finishing. maybe this year will be the year for that too.

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

you need to give up this pipe dream of bargnani dominating games, it is really a fantasy you are living here.. scola is not only a better player but is just rock solid and consistent at what he does best.. as pointed out, AB is not good at what he does best, and is only consistent at being inconsistent...

Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you have no clue what you are talking about... I really don't think you understand what it takes to win games.. not a clue.. sorry.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

your problem is you are too interested in HERO ball, which is why you are probably a carmelo fan.. hero ball =no rings... AB and carmelo are similar in that they are volume chuckers who are not efficient scorers and don't defend. All of this take over games and win series is bull sh#T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! carmelo got his azz locked down by paul george and AB can't take over an AAU game.. you are simply living in a fantasy world.. You don't win series that way... I mean really dude.... you make it seem as if we got dirk in this trade.. we got a guy who is on his last leg in the NBA, not some guy you can count on to take over NBA games in the friggin playoffs!

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

you need to give up this pipe dream of bargnani dominating games, it is really a fantasy you are living here.. scola is not only a better player but is just rock solid and consistent at what he does best.. as pointed out, AB is not good at what he does best, and is only consistent at being inconsistent...

Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you have no clue what you are talking about... I really don't think you understand what it takes to win games.. not a clue.. sorry.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

your problem is you are too interested in HERO ball, which is why you are probably a carmelo fan.. hero ball =no rings... AB and carmelo are similar in that they are volume chuckers who are not efficient scorers and don't defend. All of this take over games and win series is bull sh#T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! carmelo got his azz locked down by paul george and AB can't take over an AAU game.. you are simply living in a fantasy world.. You don't win series that way... I mean really dude.... you make it seem as if we got dirk in this trade.. we got a guy who is on his last leg in the NBA, not some guy you can count on to take over NBA games in the friggin playoffs!

Over the years Nix and I have disagreed on most things. One thing he is about is team ball. He also moved on from D'Antoni when the team started winning. The team wins with Melo. It wasn't winning before. Melo is a provocative scorer but when he is the only guy on the team that is a threat teams can game plan for that. For many reasons the Knicks as a team couldn't score in the Pacers series. They broke down, had injuries, couldn't hit shots and played against a very good defensive team. Bargs, Metta and Udrih were brought into help keep the offense from breaking down among other things. Bargs role will be different but similar to Melo he is a provocative scorer. Not sure why guys keep hunting for the worst. If you want to call Bargs out for his rebounding and attitude later in Toronto do it. I just don't see the logic in trying to turn a 54 win team into a team that doesn't have a chance. Training camp is in a month. Way too soon to be creating a 'Keys to The losses Next Season' thread.

knicks had an offense last year that was fools gold... too many threes, not enough points in the paint and not enough rebounding... eventually that was a recipe for disaster.

The knicks could not score in the pacer series because the guy who takes the lion share of the shots was not only missing, but not creating for others while controlling the ball.. that is a problem..

And please tell me, what does it mean to be a provoctive scorer, I don't understand that... what I do know is that both are volume shooters and ineffecient scorers and I would hardly call bargnani a scorer..

This is not rocket science.. too much iso ball, too few two way players, too few rebounds and points in the paint.. vs teams that are longer, stronger, quicker and younger the knicks just look outclassed and looking at the east, that is going to be a problem for us..

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

you need to give up this pipe dream of bargnani dominating games, it is really a fantasy you are living here.. scola is not only a better player but is just rock solid and consistent at what he does best.. as pointed out, AB is not good at what he does best, and is only consistent at being inconsistent...

Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you have no clue what you are talking about... I really don't think you understand what it takes to win games.. not a clue.. sorry.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

your problem is you are too interested in HERO ball, which is why you are probably a carmelo fan.. hero ball =no rings... AB and carmelo are similar in that they are volume chuckers who are not efficient scorers and don't defend. All of this take over games and win series is bull sh#T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! carmelo got his azz locked down by paul george and AB can't take over an AAU game.. you are simply living in a fantasy world.. You don't win series that way... I mean really dude.... you make it seem as if we got dirk in this trade.. we got a guy who is on his last leg in the NBA, not some guy you can count on to take over NBA games in the friggin playoffs!

Over the years Nix and I have disagreed on most things. One thing he is about is team ball. He also moved on from D'Antoni when the team started winning. The team wins with Melo. It wasn't winning before. Melo is a provocative scorer but when he is the only guy on the team that is a threat teams can game plan for that. For many reasons the Knicks as a team couldn't score in the Pacers series. They broke down, had injuries, couldn't hit shots and played against a very good defensive team. Bargs, Metta and Udrih were brought into help keep the offense from breaking down among other things. Bargs role will be different but similar to Melo he is a provocative scorer. Not sure why guys keep hunting for the worst. If you want to call Bargs out for his rebounding and attitude later in Toronto do it. I just don't see the logic in trying to turn a 54 win team into a team that doesn't have a chance. Training camp is in a month. Way too soon to be creating a 'Keys to The losses Next Season' thread.

knicks had an offense last year that was fools gold... too many threes, not enough points in the paint and not enough rebounding... eventually that was a recipe for disaster.

The knicks could not score in the pacer series because the guy who takes the lion share of the shots was not only missing, but not creating for others while controlling the ball.. that is a problem..

And please tell me, what does it mean to be a provoctive scorer, I don't understand that... what I do know is that both are volume shooters and ineffecient scorers and I would hardly call bargnani a scorer..

This is not rocket science.. too much iso ball, too few two way players, too few rebounds and points in the paint.. vs teams that are longer, stronger, quicker and younger the knicks just look outclassed and looking at the east, that is going to be a problem for us..

The Knicks added younger, longer, stronger quicker guys this offseason. They also moved away from the late 30s, early 40s vets and they added at least one more dynamic scorer. Not sure what they could have done to get some past this doom and gloom that has been here since the melo deal. However, the Knicks make the playoffs and won the atlantic and in the process beat really good teams.

who are those guys? lets talk about guys who are NBA level talent and will play.. I mean this is not some rebuilding team... those guys are not playing, we don't know if they can even play on this level...

You keep refering to this dynamic scorer we added.. please, please introduce me to him... because I have absolutely no idea who you are talking about and I am not sure you do either...

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

Call me when Bargnani has any season equal to Scola's average...Scola is a career 50% shooter....and actually rebounds the basketball which Bargnani is self admitted lazy.

By your words, if we gotta wait for him to get "hot" we're so doomed.

I honestly cant believe Bargnani can get so much defense when his entire career he's been underforming and garbage.

I'll give him his props when he actually does something when it matters...in the playoffs.

Show me some video on that.

But since you are so addicted to video...watch this one...and it aint bargnani...

Holla at me when bargnani shoots 20-25 from the field like Scola did.

I've told you before, there is a video for everything.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

That great role player is better than Bargnani all day every day...he knows what he is capable of and stays with it, and puts up the consistent stats to show it.

Call me when Bargnani has any season equal to Scola's average...Scola is a career 50% shooter....and actually rebounds the basketball which Bargnani is self admitted lazy.

By your words, if we gotta wait for him to get "hot" we're so doomed.

I honestly cant believe Bargnani can get so much defense when his entire career he's been underforming and garbage.

I'll give him his props when he actually does something when it matters...in the playoffs.

Show me some video on that.

But since you are so addicted to video...watch this one...and it aint bargnani...

Holla at me when bargnani shoots 20-25 from the field like Scola did.

I've told you before, there is a video for everything.

Yeah, Scola has been a far better NBA player than Bargnani.

Keywords there are "has been", which is what Scola is. He is a 2nd or 3rd stringer at this stage of his career. There is a reason the Pacers got him for the price that they did. Plus I find it funny that the same posters giving all these props for the Pacers getting him would be killing Grunwald for giving up that same package for him.

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

That great role player is better than Bargnani all day every day...he knows what he is capable of and stays with it, and puts up the consistent stats to show it.

Call me when Bargnani has any season equal to Scola's average...Scola is a career 50% shooter....and actually rebounds the basketball which Bargnani is self admitted lazy.

By your words, if we gotta wait for him to get "hot" we're so doomed.

I honestly cant believe Bargnani can get so much defense when his entire career he's been underforming and garbage.

I'll give him his props when he actually does something when it matters...in the playoffs.

Show me some video on that.

But since you are so addicted to video...watch this one...and it aint bargnani...

Holla at me when bargnani shoots 20-25 from the field like Scola did.

I've told you before, there is a video for everything.

Yeah, Scola has been a far better NBA player than Bargnani.

Keywords there are "has been", which is what Scola is. He is a 2nd or 3rd stringer at this stage of his career. There is a reason the Pacers got him for the price that they did. Plus I find it funny that the same posters giving all these props for the Pacers getting him would be killing Grunwald for giving up that same package for him.

You gotta be seriously joking to think he'd be a 3rd stringer....on this Knicks team he'd be the starting pf and watching him score like a pf should, at a solid clip and rebound? Thats is what we missed last year....exactly what Bargnani is not.

by the praise that Bargnani is getting I'm sure scola would be crowned mvp around here....

knickscity wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:Scola has absolutely ZERO chance of dominating a game. When AB is on his game he can go for 40 pts. Don't even try to bring up Scola as if he would make a huge difference for this team. Scola gets a lot of garbage points. He's not the focus of any defense. When the payoffs come a guy like Scola will disappear and no one will be worried about him. If AB gets hot trust me teams will have problems. It's not just the day to day production that matters but the higher levels a player can take his game to. Scola doesn't have another level he can take his game too. Bargnani does.

You have to have players who can win a game for you practically by themselves if they get it going. Despite the hate people put on AB he's a guy with a ton of upside and talent. He's never been on a team like this where he's got so much talent around him. Scola isn't a primary scoring option and even if he was he wouldn't put any fear in an opposing team. It can be easier for some guys to be efficient when less attention is being paid to them and they don't carry the scoring load for their team. Guys like Scola play it safe and stay under the radar. He's a great role player.

That great role player is better than Bargnani all day every day...he knows what he is capable of and stays with it, and puts up the consistent stats to show it.

Call me when Bargnani has any season equal to Scola's average...Scola is a career 50% shooter....and actually rebounds the basketball which Bargnani is self admitted lazy.

By your words, if we gotta wait for him to get "hot" we're so doomed.

I honestly cant believe Bargnani can get so much defense when his entire career he's been underforming and garbage.

I'll give him his props when he actually does something when it matters...in the playoffs.

Show me some video on that.

But since you are so addicted to video...watch this one...and it aint bargnani...

Holla at me when bargnani shoots 20-25 from the field like Scola did.

I've told you before, there is a video for everything.

Yeah, Scola has been a far better NBA player than Bargnani.

Keywords there are "has been", which is what Scola is. He is a 2nd or 3rd stringer at this stage of his career. There is a reason the Pacers got him for the price that they did. Plus I find it funny that the same posters giving all these props for the Pacers getting him would be killing Grunwald for giving up that same package for him.

The funny part is it wouldnt have taken that package to get him...he only makes 4 mil....it didnt take that package to get bargnani either.

You gotta be seriously joking to think he'd be a 3rd stringer....on this Knicks team he'd be the starting pf and watching him score like a pf should, at a solid clip and rebound? Thats is what we missed last year....exactly what Bargnani is not.

by the praise that Bargnani is getting I'm sure scola would be crowned mvp around here....

You obviously didn't watch many Phoenix Suns games last year.