I thougth that was the conversation.

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

callmened wrote:

Clean wrote:

callmened wrote:- WOW, i'm just catching up with all these posts. this is why i love sports and i tend to stay away from these politically charged issues. people are allowed to feel what they feel; but i can also say that it saddens me to hear/see some people's "true colors"

- Race will always be an issue in America, thats simply what happens when you have a melting pot full of people. Most of the time, we live ok but sometimes bad things happen (some are race related, some arent)

- Is there a double standard? maybe, quite possibly? as long as people understand that several generations of black people were killed and slaughtered here. and it was only a generation ago, that black people started getting REAL rights. so are things ever gonna be equal? i hope so...when then that happens, ill gladly take away the double standard!

- As a black man, I'm not going to talk about how things are against us. Cuz that wont change anything (at least not here in a knicks bball forum). I've had many obstacles in life (some race related, most not). I'm a 6-3 220lbs physician that gets respected by all races. The minute I take off my white coat, things become "different". I'm not gonna complain, thats just the reality

- Lastly, BRIGGS, i put you in the "gotta read his posts" category. i'll always respect your basketball knowledge and passion for the knicks, but i have to admit i'm a lil disappointed and saddened by your views.

I see where your coming from. I personally would not be disappointed by anyone elses posts unless they came out what said they were racist. The way I see it is people comes from all different walks of life and some may have never been exposed or noticed how race relations affect others. For example, a person new to basketball could watch the same game but miss the nuances of the game because they are not used to it. It is for us to help them understand and not be to be disappointed.

Perhaps. no will ever come out and say they are a racist. I dont know, hate or love BRIGGS. i dont know him except for some posts here on the forum and i highly doubt hes a racist or a bad person

were all different and i respect his opinion

its more like the disappointment you hear when a cool guy tells you hes a dallas cowboy fan...its like GEEZ REALLY?!?!

Actually I started this thread as a basic discussion of a serious topic. I should not have engaged the gentleman who put words phrases and ideas from his mouth as mine--I shouldve ignored it. The topic of discussion really was two parts--the unbelievable reality of this young man's words and hate in 2013- I hate 90% of white people and than the same young man went out and killed an unassuming young man walking down the street. What caused a 16 year old man to hate like this? I believe most raciscm that still exists in the US is scant--atleast in my view. This is not 1930--I think anyone can agree on that. So why did this young man have hatred like it was 1930? Secondly if a young white man wrote on his twitter that he hated 90% of all black people and then he and his buddies went out and committed the same crime--we'd hear MUCH more about this than we do now. If a fellow like Al Sharpton is willing to say something the other way around--where is his views now--where are a LOT of peoples views now--because this is quiet and this was one of the worst racial acts of the last 20 years

This may have been your intention but it was poorly reflected in what you wrote. The theme of your opening post was almost entirely centered around the premise of there being a double standard in society/the media with people's outrage/coverage of hate crimes. Here is your post:

One of them said. " 90 of white people are nasty. Hate them". If this was three white people who wrote and acted like this it would've been the racial incident of the decade. Other way around really haven't heard a peep. I think this is what is the basis of much of the racism we have in the country now. A reverse psychology. Whoever did what here. This is one of the worst race crimes in 20 years and I hope people from all races learn and continue to learn from this. This young man had serious hatred for whites at 16 What caused this?

61 of your first 104 words involved in the post reflected this point. When 59% of any text focuses on a particular topic, it sends a strong message to the reader that this is the general point of it. From there, you then seem to infer that the vast majority of racism is perpetuated by Blacks (maybe minorities), which in turn suggests that Blacks (maybe minorities) don't ever have to deal with racism. That since Black people (and possibly other minorities) are no longer being lynched, raped, or overtly discriminated against "like in the 1930s" that there are no social injustices that still linger/exist in society. In other words, "screw your personnel experiences, there is no racism and when there is, it is coming from Blacks/minorities to whites". It reads as being extremely obnoxious, condescending and indifferent/insensitive to anyone that isn't of your ethnic group.

And in spite of all the statistical information provided by misterearl that show Blacks/minorities are disproportionately victims of hate crimes and at least 10 instances of such crimes that went untouched in the media, you continue to persist with your general premise, while never directly engaging misterearl on his points. You're not having a discussion as much as you are continually reiterating your opinions. There is a reason why you are getting the reaction you're getting and it isn't due to some hatred/bias against white people or from us ignoring how terrible this Lane murder is.

You see I feel I can give a reasonable opinion on this matter. As I do with the Knicks despite being called a hater or homer at times I try to give an honest assessment.

I grew up as a white kid in a predominantly Black and Hispanic community in Elizabeth, NJ. I had friends of all "races" but I kinda understand what Briggs is saying albeit he probably didn't do the best job of expressing his intentions. Maybe earl is right to an extent. I don't know Briggs is speaking from his own bubble or he has the grounds to comment on the topic of racism. By the way, I wonder if Fox News and the rest of mainstream media have the right to comment as well.

Any I experienced racism in Elizabeth. Parents saying to their kids what are you doing with that white boy. I Had a rock thrown at my window as my dad drove through a part of town known for its gang activity and shootings because they were blocking a narrow street and we disrupted them by driving through.

Then We moved to a predominately white suburban neighborhood where I heard plenty of racist comments from certain sheltered individuals.

Overall have we come a long way? Absolutely. It's an extremely slow process but maybe one day as I said earlier the word "race" will only be used to describe a completion of speed

This I can understand and relate to. Every race has their bad eggs and it is unfortunate that you had to deal with those that share my skin color. What I don't care for are these broad stroke conclusions especially one that minimizes my own experiences or that of others (not talking about you here though). That's all. Again, I really do appreciate your words/perspective and welcome an ongoing discussion with you.

misterearl wrote:Brilliantly stated NardDog

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:It all started when the white community pushed the black community into the role of 3rd class citizens once they were freed from slavery. Then the black community built a culture upon those unfortunate circumstances that they didn't want and didn't know how to change or COLLECTIVELY rise up from because of the mental slavery that occurred after the physical slavery .

And this is where we are today in 2013.

I don't want to drift off the topic but these words jumped out at me. I'm going to call bulls**t on characterizing the situation of Blacks as something "they didn't know how to change" and a product of some form of "mental slavery". In this country, wealth is equated with success/social clout and it has largely been built by inheritance. Its kinda hard to "overcome" when your ancestors have been systematically denied the opportunities to build wealth for several centuries. Things are starting to level off now but lets not pretend that this has been some longstanding thing. Just in the 90s, you had banks still "redzoning" black neighborhoods and businesses (despite being qualified/comparable to whites), denying them the opportunity to loans for investments (homes, commercial ventures, etc.). The cherry on top is that social mobility has continually been slowing and has reached an all-time low. The point is that I don't think these obstacles have anything to do with "mental slavery"; happy thoughts exactly do jacksh**t to remedy the situation.

Conversations around race are always difficult because they force the participants out of a comfort zone and cause one, if serious, to see the world through another persons eyes. BRIGGS intent to open the conversation may have been sincere, but he refused to entertain valid points about current conditions, let alone the root cause of resentment.

The greatness of Nelson Mandela was that he inherited a presidency that could have easily displayed the chaos of Egypt or Iraq. Instead of a path of retaliation for the crimes of Apartheid, Mandela preached reconciliation and atonement. If any country could have been ripped apart by its fragile seams of race, it was South Africa after its first open election.

I wonder what BRIIGS would feel today, as a black South African, after decades of being forced to carry an ID pass in his own country?

Would BRIGGS be so forgiving of crimes against his parents, elders, brothers or sisters?

you're so sick

how do you rationalize the disparity of current-day hate crime statistics?

How do you explain the significant rise in death threats against the president of the United States?

Help me out here

misterearl wrote:Brilliantly stated NardDog

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:It all started when the white community pushed the black community into the role of 3rd class citizens once they were freed from slavery. Then the black community built a culture upon those unfortunate circumstances that they didn't want and didn't know how to change or COLLECTIVELY rise up from because of the mental slavery that occurred after the physical slavery .

And this is where we are today in 2013.

I don't want to drift off the topic but these words jumped out at me. I'm going to call bulls**t on characterizing the situation of Blacks as something "they didn't know how to change" and a product of some form of "mental slavery". In this country, wealth is equated with success/social clout and it has largely been built by inheritance. Its kinda hard to "overcome" when your ancestors have been systematically denied the opportunities to build wealth for several centuries. Things are starting to level off now but lets not pretend that this has been some longstanding thing. Just in the 90s, you had banks still "redzoning" black neighborhoods and businesses (despite being qualified/comparable to whites), denying them the opportunity to loans for investments (homes, commercial ventures, etc.). The cherry on top is that social mobility has continually been slowing and has reached an all-time low. The point is that I don't think these obstacles have anything to do with "mental slavery"; happy thoughts exactly do jacksh**t to remedy the situation.

Conversations around race are always difficult because they force the participants out of a comfort zone and cause one, if serious, to see the world through another persons eyes. BRIGGS intent to open the conversation may have been sincere, but he refused to entertain valid points about current conditions, let alone the root cause of resentment.

The greatness of Nelson Mandela was that he inherited a presidency that could have easily displayed the chaos of Egypt or Iraq. Instead of a path of retaliation for the crimes of Apartheid, Mandela preached reconciliation and atonement. If any country could have been ripped apart by its fragile seams of race, it was South Africa after its first open election.

I wonder what BRIIGS would feel today, as a black South African, after decades of being forced to carry an ID pass in his own country?

Would BRIGGS be so forgiving of crimes against his parents, elders, brothers or sisters?

A big part of that is due to the fact that so much of our identity begins to be involuntarily centered around it since birth. Make no mistake, I have no qualms with my ethnicity or the color of my skin. At the same time, it does come with the burden of expectation, which is often a negative one for Black people in this country. I've got a laundry list of instances where the color of my skin preceded my merits (most minor, some pretty ****ing outrageous) but I don't think it'll serve any purpose for anyone else if I vented them. I only mention all of this to counter an underlying theme that seemed to be minimizing my issues/experiences.

As for Mandela, the guy is truly an inspiration and a model for us all. I've always admired the man and have been saddened by his waning health.

The Past

Zimmerman used a Kel-Tech 9-mm pistol to shoot Martin on Feb. 26, 2012, in Sanford, Fla. So, what did the former neighborhood watch volunteer do this weekend? According to TMZ, he went to the gun manufacturer’s Cocoa, Fla., headquarters to apparently shop for a rifle. Not only that, Zimmerman got a tour of the facility by the owner’s son and posed for at least one smiley-faced picture with an employee.

... the reaction from Shawn Vincent, the spokesman of the attorney who kept him from rotting behind bars, was the best.
We certainly would not have advised him to go to the factory that made the gun that he used to shoot Trayvon Martin through the heart. That was not part of our public relations plan….

Yeah right

(One guess what year this happened, BRIGGS)

Wild Wing Cafe, an establishment in Charleston, South Carolina, kicked out 25 African-American customers because a white woman said she felt threatened, according to reports.

Michael Brown, whose family waited for around two hours before getting into the restaurant, told WCSC that staff at Wild Wings told him “there’s a situation where one of our customers feels threatened by your party, so she asked us not to seat you in our section, which totally alarmed all of us because we’re sitting there peaceably for two hours.”

He added, “Obviously, if we were causing any conflict, we would have been ejected out of the place hours before.”

Brown said he and his family were at the establishment to celebrate his cousin’s final day in Charleston, S.C.

He continued, “I asked her I want to be clear with you. I said so you’re telling me I have to leave. She said I have a right to deny you service. I said so you’re asking me to leave because you’re upset because he was recording you, after we’ve waited for two hours, and after you’ve already pretty much discriminated on us, and she answered yes.”

arkrud wrote:

callmened wrote:or learning that your mother (not great grandmother or grandmother) was a product of rape by a white man in the deep South? (happened to my friend)

The reality is no one is going to shed a tear for me, or give me 40 acres. Things ARE getting better (I never thought id see a black president in my life!) but that doesnt mean we should forget the past

The past is gone and the future is not there yet.
The only thing that is - current moment. And this is your life.
And if you leave it in hate you are losing it all.
The only victim of your hate is you.

yeah, im not the type to walk around with hate or skepticism. that requires too much effort. and i hate to constantly feel like a "victim". sure im AWARE and i'll keep my eyes open but i tend to give people the benefit of doubt. the past was rough (for ALOT of races, countries, gender, religions, orientation, etc) all i can do is focus on my present. i can and have been criticized for that attitude but thats my philosophy in life

BRIGGS wrote:

playa2 wrote:Here's a question for anyone: If your great great grandfather was murdered and robbed of his land and possessions by my great great grandfather, and you knew I was the descendant of the person who murdered your ancestors and took his land, would it be OK for me to tell you to get over it?

playa--banks do that to thousands of folks everyday-- the next time you stop in for sushi-- remember the cooks parents couldve been obliterated by a bomb that your pops helped drop are they over it? Thats history folks clean the slate and live your life. No reason to hate 90% of any folks--the kid had a learned hatred from somewhere hes only 16.

What so many still don't understand those generations of people who came over after their parent were (as you say) obliterated CAME OVER HERE ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL already knowing and prepared themselves for what they were getting into THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. The came together as a people and planned before they came over into the United States. They weren't striiped of their true culture and heritage and language, that's something you might not ever understand. I don't walk around with hate WASN'T RAISED THAT WAY , but I do know and remember the REAL history.