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Knicks Sign Beno Udrih
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dk7th
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8/8/2013  8:33 PM
there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense
chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
AUTOADVERT
Andrew
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8/8/2013  8:57 PM
dk7th wrote:artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense

The Artest signing makes more and more sense to me now.

PURE KNICKS LOVE
Jmpasq
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8/8/2013  8:58 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:another bad signing by NY. He sucks they could have gotten way better pgs earlier. Besides how good could he be if no one else wanted him.

Better for the vet min?
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
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8/8/2013  9:04 PM
tkf wrote:
martin wrote:
tkf wrote:
Clean wrote:
tkf wrote:I think beno will be better than prigs... which is why I didn't like giving prigs a dime more..

No one could have thought we would have gotten Beno for the Min. I do think maybe Nate would have been better other signing if we knew we would get Beno later. I don't care about that anymore I am just happy we got a guy I have been wanting for a few years now.

well maybe not beno, but look at the list I posted days ago, there were other options better than prigs IMO.... Dj augustine being one of them..

besides being younger, how is DJ any better?

Speed element, Dj is much faster, and can actually get into the lane and finish, not saying he is great at that, but we don't get that at all from prigs, heck...we don't get enough of that from anyone on our team, especially our guards...

you want to talk pick and roll, DJ is actually good at the pull up jumper off the dribble. one of his few offensive strengths....

defensively he is average, but after watching him blow by our guards last year, it makes you wonder how good defensively we are there as well..

overall, i would take him over prigs not only because he is a decade younger, but he brings another element we need to this team.. youth and speed, and offensively I think he is more of a threat which actually bodes well in the pick and roll.. Isn't that supposed to be a big part of our offense now according to most?

If you want to be honest, all things being equal, which i don't think they are.. why not go younger and cheaper?


Im with u here I would rather have DJ 2. Just a different type of guy to play match ups, some type of versatility.Wasnt against Prigs but didnt like using the LLE to do it.
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
playa2
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8/8/2013  9:17 PM
Clean wrote:
playa2 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Playa - I hear you. The player we need to buy into moving the rock is Artest.

Udrih knows how to play the right way.


ROFL @ your answer. Remember Prigs knew how to play the right way too and he caved into our Iso players later in the season/playoffs.

The last 2 years Woody's playoff playbook consisted of 3 pages.

1st page: Does melo have the ball? If the answer is yes turn to page 3. If the answer is no turn to page 2.

2nd page: Pass the damn ball to melo now! Turn to page 3.

3rd page: Play complete

Yea Clean , so as a concerned Knick fan that's my #1 concern outside of injuries to rotation players. This must be addressed by the coaches, the media and the fans if they really have a real desire to get to play for the gold trophy.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
nixluva
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8/8/2013  9:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/8/2013  9:26 PM
DJ Augustin is garbage!!! He can't run a team. That's the reason we resigned Prigs. The guy knows how to keep the ball moving. Now that we've added more players we need a ball distributor even more. Using the LLE didn't really stop the team from improving in the end. The Knicks did the right thing by securing the PG that helped them play their best BB. DJ has never proved to be a very effective floor leader.
nycisgreat
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8/8/2013  10:29 PM
Great signing. If Woodson can't find time for this guy on the floor, then he should be fired. This guy will definitely light a fire under Felton's @ss.
blkexec
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8/8/2013  11:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/8/2013  11:56 PM
nixluva wrote:DJ Augustin is garbage!!! He can't run a team. That's the reason we resigned Prigs. The guy knows how to keep the ball moving. Now that we've added more players we need a ball distributor even more. Using the LLE didn't really stop the team from improving in the end. The Knicks did the right thing by securing the PG that helped them play their best BB. DJ has never proved to be a very effective floor leader.

Thank you.....Prigs is a winner. Beno and Felton are better PG's and SG's over DJ. DJ is 5'10 and probably will not last in the NBA for long. But regardless, who said DJ wanted to play for us anyway. Enough of this jocking all the players we didn't pickup, who would've only used us to jack up their own price. This isn't fantasy basketball. We need players that want to play here. And Bargs needed a Euro player to hang with. It's a win...win.

Jerk off to DJ all night if you want. Meanwhile, bring on the 1990's rough necks.

Melo, JR, Shump, Artest, Felton, Tyler even Woodson....

Lets Go!

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
dk7th
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8/9/2013  12:36 AM
Andrew wrote:
dk7th wrote:artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense

The Artest signing makes more and more sense to me now.

Welcome to The Isle of the Sane!

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
misterearl
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8/9/2013  7:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/9/2013  7:40 AM
POD

blkexec wrote:
Thank you.....Prigs is a winner. Beno and Felton are better PG's and SG's over DJ. DJ is 5'10 and probably will not last in the NBA for long. But regardless, who said DJ wanted to play for us anyway. Enough of this jocking all the players we didn't pickup, who would've only used us to jack up their own price. This isn't fantasy basketball. We need players that want to play here. And Bargs needed a Euro player to hang with. It's a win...win.

Jerk off to DJ all night if you want. Meanwhile, bring on the 1990's rough necks.

Melo, JR, Shump, Artest, Felton, Tyler even Woodson....

Lets Go!

Let's go indeed.

Did somebody say Jeremy Tyler?

once a knick always a knick
smackeddog
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8/9/2013  11:13 AM
nycisgreat wrote:Great signing. If Woodson can't find time for this guy on the floor, then he should be fired. This guy will definitely light a fire under Felton's @ss.

Why does Felton need a fire lighting under him? He's been good with us- kept his weight down, worked out, played hard. No problem with his effort at all- plus he was really effective and played great during the win streak and in the playoffs.

tkf
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8/9/2013  11:20 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
tkf wrote:
martin wrote:
tkf wrote:
Clean wrote:
tkf wrote:I think beno will be better than prigs... which is why I didn't like giving prigs a dime more..

No one could have thought we would have gotten Beno for the Min. I do think maybe Nate would have been better other signing if we knew we would get Beno later. I don't care about that anymore I am just happy we got a guy I have been wanting for a few years now.

well maybe not beno, but look at the list I posted days ago, there were other options better than prigs IMO.... Dj augustine being one of them..

besides being younger, how is DJ any better?

Speed element, Dj is much faster, and can actually get into the lane and finish, not saying he is great at that, but we don't get that at all from prigs, heck...we don't get enough of that from anyone on our team, especially our guards...

you want to talk pick and roll, DJ is actually good at the pull up jumper off the dribble. one of his few offensive strengths....

defensively he is average, but after watching him blow by our guards last year, it makes you wonder how good defensively we are there as well..

overall, i would take him over prigs not only because he is a decade younger, but he brings another element we need to this team.. youth and speed, and offensively I think he is more of a threat which actually bodes well in the pick and roll.. Isn't that supposed to be a big part of our offense now according to most?

If you want to be honest, all things being equal, which i don't think they are.. why not go younger and cheaper?


Im with u here I would rather have DJ 2. Just a different type of guy to play match ups, some type of versatility.Wasnt against Prigs but didnt like using the LLE to do it.

exactly... I just didn't think we had to offer prigs another dime more.. maybe offer him another year.. but not more money.. where was he going to go?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
misterearl
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8/9/2013  11:21 AM
Say what?

nycisgreat wrote:Great signing. If Woodson can't find time for this guy on the floor, then he should be fired. This guy will definitely light a fire under Felton's @ss.

Why is it required to assume Mike Woodson is biased against playing Udrih, and since the assumption is anywhere close to being correct, that a winning had coach should be fired?

Damn

once a knick always a knick
tkf
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8/9/2013  11:28 AM
dk7th wrote:there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense

chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.


one concern I have with that? is artest still the defender he once was? and even then, it is a size issue.. I hate consistently being undersized. at some point you just can't defend that position..

I remember an interview, I think it was with Bird and Nique. They were asked if they played two on two vs I think it was kobe and wade or lebron and wade, I forgot who.. but they asked who would win..

nique and bird, especially nique made a good point. he didn't even go so much into the details of their games or skill, he just pointed to the fact that those guys were too small. they would just be too small to guard he or bird.. and sometimes thats what it comes down to...

For example, was hibbert just that good? well I think Hibbert really improved his game, but the key was, he was just too big for the knicks big men, and when we put kenyon martin on him, he just gave up too much size.. at some point we are going to have to put guys in their proper position... A lot of this problem comes because we have a SF that can't guard SF's can't guard PF's, but seems to have more of an offensive Advantage VS PF's... seems like a lot of shuffling for one guy... why not have guys that can just play their position....

Artest is not a bad guy, but I still see this team getting smashed on the boards, and in the end, that will result in an early exit..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
RonRon
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8/9/2013  11:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/9/2013  11:47 AM
dk7th wrote:there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense
chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.

Billups aka BIG SHOT for a reason, while he might not be a traditional PG, his ability to hit the 3pt shot and play OFF THE BALL complimented Melo very well
However, as a Knick, Billups was just much slower and didn't have the overall talent on both offense and defense to be successful
Billups still doesn't like the idea of playing SG but I think that is the position he must play with his age and lack of speed

In Denver Billups was already declining but in Detroit, he was a very good PG that provided leadership, he hit many clutch shots some from DEEP range, and set up the team with an unselfish core and they were all high IQ players

Detroit initiated their offense mainly with RIP with his midrange game/using screens off the ball, Rasheed's post up abilities and his ability to spread the floor as a stretch 4/5, and Billups ability to hit LONG range shots

To a lesser extent as role players they utilized, Prince post up ability, with Delfino's ability to spread the floor, and along with Aaron Affalo scoring abilities

I think Woodson tries to mimic the philosophy of the success that Detroit had under Larry Brown's DEFENSE first philosophy with a TEAM/Balance concept on OFFENSE, mixed in with some of his own ISO philosophies in Atlanta with Joe Johnson
However, we were far from the talents/mobility/IQ/DEFENSE from that Detroit team
It worked because they were all veterans, were all unselfish with no ego issues, and on DEFENSE were all solid 1v1 DEFENDER's and then also very good TEAM defenders

Overall, I think most posters here appreciate more post's like this by you
I agree we should let Felton, Udrih, and Pablo all battle each other for the starting PG spot for healthy competition
It is up to Woodson to come up with a lineup/rotation that would compliment the rest of the players on the floor together, hopefully he figures it out and doesn't allow his stubbornness to affect his decisions for the better of the team

I also think we should add a 4th combo guard, on a 2 year TEAM OPTION, like Murry or Darius Morris for defensive purposes and the absorb some of Pablo's/Udrih's experience to mold/mentor them, to refine their PG/facilitating skills, much like Kidd was suppose to do for Lin

With Tyler here, I don't think we can afford to use a roster spot on CJ Leslie as development projects, and we need to add a legit Center for the size in the Eastern Conference now
If we keep CJ Leslie, we would only have 1 roster spot left, for either a Center or PG
I would sign CJ Leslie to the D League for at least 1 year, till his body bulks up, and hope he works hard on and off the court, without using a roster spot on him

RonRon
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8/9/2013  11:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/9/2013  12:33 PM
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense

chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.


one concern I have with that? is artest still the defender he once was? and even then, it is a size issue.. I hate consistently being undersized. at some point you just can't defend that position..

I remember an interview, I think it was with Bird and Nique. They were asked if they played two on two vs I think it was kobe and wade or lebron and wade, I forgot who.. but they asked who would win..

nique and bird, especially nique made a good point. he didn't even go so much into the details of their games or skill, he just pointed to the fact that those guys were too small. they would just be too small to guard he or bird.. and sometimes thats what it comes down to...

For example, was hibbert just that good? well I think Hibbert really improved his game, but the key was, he was just too big for the knicks big men, and when we put kenyon martin on him, he just gave up too much size.. at some point we are going to have to put guys in their proper position... A lot of this problem comes because we have a SF that can't guard SF's can't guard PF's, but seems to have more of an offensive Advantage VS PF's... seems like a lot of shuffling for one guy... why not have guys that can just play their position....

Artest is not a bad guy, but I still see this team getting smashed on the boards, and in the end, that will result in an early exit..


On paper that looks like a solid plan but Tyson Chandler is not a real shot blocking presence, and NO ONE in the lineup there is either
However, if we can be a solid rebounding team with that roster, a decent defensive squad on 1v1 defense and better help defense, and on OFFENSE, Artest's can hit that wide open 3pter and Melo/Artest's take turns posting up on the opponents SF with their size, especially if Iman improves his ball handling/penetration much like JR did last season, it could work

I think AB at C would give us much more room to operate with better floor spacing especially if Melo/Artest can initiate our offense with efficiency at the SF on post ups, and with 5 threats that could hit hit the 3pter, and open the driving lanes to penetrate/finish or lead to a wide open 3pt shot if the opponents protect the paint
Of course AB would need to work his rebounding/defense but he is a mismatch for most Center's to defend at the 3pt line with the ability to drive past him and finish if defended
We would need to crash the board's with timely cuts with good anticipation with consistency when a team mate has a open shot for rebound or when the paint is left unprotected

That is why I think JR would compliment that squad better than Iman when JR is healthy and in NBA shape, but lets see how much Iman improves this off season...

On paper, if we can add a defensive F like James Johnson I think it would compliment our roster very much
That we we could have a more balanced starting lineup and a very defensive 2nd unit with versatility, especially if Hopla can improve James Johnson's baseline 3pt shot like he did with Iman and Brewer in the early season with his defensive abilities/size/athleticism/length

James Johnson would easily be our best 1v1 defender vs the versatile/talented SF/PF like Lebron, Durant, Paul George, Rudy Gay etc with his a combination of size/length/athleticism standing at 6'9-10, 250pds, with great length/reach
Playing a role like a bigger Ronnie Brewer's role on defense and standing in the corner on offense if he can hit the 3pt shot like Brewer did early in the season

dk7th
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8/9/2013  1:15 PM
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense

chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.


one concern I have with that? is artest still the defender he once was? and even then, it is a size issue.. I hate consistently being undersized. at some point you just can't defend that position..

I remember an interview, I think it was with Bird and Nique. They were asked if they played two on two vs I think it was kobe and wade or lebron and wade, I forgot who.. but they asked who would win..

nique and bird, especially nique made a good point. he didn't even go so much into the details of their games or skill, he just pointed to the fact that those guys were too small. they would just be too small to guard he or bird.. and sometimes thats what it comes down to...

For example, was hibbert just that good? well I think Hibbert really improved his game, but the key was, he was just too big for the knicks big men, and when we put kenyon martin on him, he just gave up too much size.. at some point we are going to have to put guys in their proper position... A lot of this problem comes because we have a SF that can't guard SF's can't guard PF's, but seems to have more of an offensive Advantage VS PF's... seems like a lot of shuffling for one guy... why not have guys that can just play their position....

Artest is not a bad guy, but I still see this team getting smashed on the boards, and in the end, that will result in an early exit..

the roster is clumsy with a lot of tweeners. melo is the main culprit here, followed by felton. you are absolutely right that in an ideal situation you have non-tweeners that don't require contortions of the type i suggested. but yes we remain oddly undersized and that simply contributes to the clumsiness. i maintain that melo is just not in supreme shape and if he were he could play small forward on both ends of the floor, including closing out on shots and really getting up on a player. fifteen pounds lighter with lean muscle would do wonders for lateral quickness which he simply does not possess at his present level of conditioning and weight.

actually woodson would do well to consider incorporate more zone-like defensive schemes.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
BRIGGS
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8/9/2013  1:34 PM
dk7th wrote:there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense
chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.

We didnt get Bargs not to start and play him 36+ minutes.

RIP Crushalot😞
dk7th
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8/9/2013  1:46 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
dk7th wrote:there should be a transparent competition during training camp and pre-season to see who should start at point guard.

we need to have the best decision-maker/orchestrator out there to counterbalance the poor decision making of other erstwhile ballhogs.

udrich/prigioni/felton
shumpert has got to develop a jumpshot from not just the baseline or he is doomed offensively. still he must start.
artest at small forward on offense and switching to power forward on defense
anthony at power forward on offense and switching to small forward on defense
chandler at center

if woodson can properly recognize who the starting point guard should be then there is some hope for optimism.

the ideal would be a billups-like scenario circa 2008-9. billups could hit the 3 not great but acceptably, was a very efficient scorer nonetheless, and distributed the ball quite well for a guy who liked to score the ball. oh and billups was an underrated defender most of his career....

all in all we need an old-school player.

We didnt get Bargs not to start and play him 36+ minutes.

maybe so but he is a defensive liability that will put chandler into early foul trouble, is a poor rebounder that will lead better offensive-rebounding teams to get extra shots, and has as much trouble creating cohesion on offense as melo does.

he has been a negative-sum player his entire career. have a gander at the column on the left side of this page:

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knicks1248
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8/9/2013  2:33 PM
bargs is a poor rebounder because he's a perimeter player (never in position for offensive rebounds), and not strong enough to hold his ground in the paint..
ES
Knicks Sign Beno Udrih

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