nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

cope would not have cost us any picks..

Yet the Pacers gave up a young prospect and a 2014 first rounder for Scola, and - WOW! That's also a great move Pacers! Also a viewpoint shared by some people on these boards who blast the Bargs trade for the same reason!

first of all, look at the pacers draft pick situation... a lot different from the knicks..

next, they were trading surplus to actually fill a position of need.. Scola allows them to upgrade without compromising their future any more..

Scola has been a tried and true professional who has been nothing but productive over the years..

we can't say the same thing about bargnani... and the knicks could ill afford to give up any more picks..

UPSIDE!!! That's really what we're talking about here. We didn't bring in AB to just be a Scola type presence. We're trying to get him back on track to maximizing his full potential, which is far beyond Scola's level. You have to keep that in mind when you bring in a player like AB.

lol.. UPSIDE? come on man, that is not being rational, or realistic... but again, with the upside you think he has, he doesn't fill a need... scola actually fits a need for the pacers, a team that has enough youth and picks going forward... barnani has no upside.. we know what he is, he has been in the league long enough.. what you can hope is that he gets back to where he was during his best years and even then, that is not what this team needed.. and really not that great..

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i don't know, i think bargs fills a need for us,

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

he also will give us new ways to get scored on and beat on the board as well...

I'll just remind you that this is an offensive team and we didn't lose because of our defense and rebounding as some would have you think. We lost in the playoffs due to a lack of offense. The Knicks offensive efficiency was horrendous and no playoff team should be that bad offensively and expect to beat the better teams. While it's a goal to improve rebounding and defense, the biggest issue was that the offense broke down. The players we depended on broke down. We can't beat a power team by trying to be a power team. This is a finesse team and they need to increase the team quickness, skill level and endurance to make it thru a full season and playoff run.

This team can and should be one of the most efficient scoring teams in the league with the mix of talent they have. The Knicks were #3 in the regular season. The roster was flawed tho and they depended on players that couldn't sustain the level of play. Now the Knicks have enhanced the roster from the level they already had. This team has gotten better and not worse in any way. They've added talent and more variety to the roster. This team should be able to defend and score at a high level. This team should be able to survive the long season much better than last years team. Knicks fans who can't enjoy what is a very good Knicks team should consider following some other team. There's not a legit reason not to be behind this team which was a #2 seed and is now a much better team going into this season than last.

Nalod wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

playa2 wrote:Let's be real about the trade.

We all found out that all we needed in the Pacer series was a big man to bring the center for the pacers out away from the basket, problem was our coach(or management-marketing) didn't like the player who was capable of doing that(Copeland) from Newark NJ.

Neither plays awesome defense but can do what we lacked if on the court, but one is more marketable than the other.

So we go out and find another C/F who can do the same thing(who has more NBA experience) who's international flavor in Italy will sell more knicks Jerseys there and in NY. As knicks fans we must always look at the marketing plan 1ST AND FOREMOST,when it comes NYC big business mindset of James Dolan.

Do you really think that Copeland didn't play because he is from New Jersey?

No, because he from Newark!!!!

Playa2 does not know that jersey sales don't go to the team. Look it up. Maybe Alex Jones can sell you Floride filters for your water while your there. Used to be a communist fear, now its the Illuminati? Or the devil?

The trade has little to do with marketing because bargnani is not charismatic at all, its about keeping up with the Nyet and the battle for NY.

They gave up a future asset in the 2016 pick which can be swapped. THis is also about keeping Melo engaged so he don't bolt next year in the event we screw the pooch! Its the play book we did to keep Ewing in town. Good enough to win and get to playoffs but not championship quality. Playa is right about that!

I doubt we did this in reaction to just Hibbert. Basically in the Playa2 scenario Tyson sits. I doubt that happens. If Tyson and Bargs on the floor Hibber stays with Tyson. We might not even face the Pacers in the playoffs so why make a trade for that scenario? We not paying 14mm for tyson to sit! If he does, Its the 100mm man (Amare) who plays. In I can see Mark west playing bargs. In any event Im not worried about pacers just yet.

Playa2 says "lets be real"? Maybe the only thing he said thats plausible was that Cope was from Newark, the rest is his attempt to talk hoop because if he keeps a high % of conspiracy vs his basketball output he'll get banned. Yeah, Im riding Playa2 these days.

These days? You're practically engaged to playa2 in the Off Topic Forum. Shame shame.

Only on a Knicks fan site could getting a 7 footer who hits threes and can handle the ball better than any 15 generations of Novaks or Cambys for those two and draft picks we'd probably waste on Lithuanian/Bulgarian SF's who'd probably never leave Europe, can be endlessly debated as a bad thing.

Next up, playa2 explains, via numerology, how QRich is actually the child of the antichrist, and spent his short stint here implanting an evil seed within Dolan's cerebrum that will cause him to randomly attack all security personnel and hot dog vendors. This, in turn, will bring about a state of martial law within the city, spreading to the entire world, for as we all know, David Stern is the executive poobah of Opus Dei. When he's not waxing his poles with Mel Gibson. In Denver. With Gallo's army of socialist beauticians.

We bad, we nationwide.

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i don't know, i think bargs fills a need for us,

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

he also will give us new ways to get scored on and beat on the board as well...

Where as Cope and Scola are defensive juggernauts.

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i don't know, i think bargs fills a need for us,

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

he also will give us new ways to get scored on and beat on the board as well...

Where as Cope and Scola are defensive juggernauts.

I didn't know the knicks had either copeland or scola? what do they have to do with the knicks?

what is your argument here?

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i don't know, i think bargs fills a need for us,

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

he also will give us new ways to get scored on and beat on the board as well...

Where as Cope and Scola are defensive juggernauts.

I didn't know the knicks had either copeland or scola? what do they have to do with the knicks?

what is your argument here?

Another team trades young prospect and draft pick for aging, injured bench player= fantastic.
Knicks do same= disaster

Another team gets players who are good offensively but poor defenders and rebounders= fantastic.
Kincks get player who is good offensively but poor at defense and rebounding= disaster- he can't rebound or defend.

My point is the perpetual double standard.

There's no double standard. Many people, I believe tfk among them, don't consider Bargnani a good offensive player; they consider him a bad offensive player who also can't rebound or defend.

smackeddog wrote:Do people honestly believe Cope is a better player than Bargs?

I hope not.

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i don't know, i think bargs fills a need for us,

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

he also will give us new ways to get scored on and beat on the board as well...

Where as Cope and Scola are defensive juggernauts.

I didn't know the knicks had either copeland or scola? what do they have to do with the knicks?

what is your argument here?

Another team trades young prospect and draft pick for aging, injured bench player= fantastic.
Knicks do same= disaster

Another team gets players who are good offensively but poor defenders and rebounders= fantastic.
Kincks get player who is good offensively but poor at defense and rebounding= disaster- he can't rebound or defend.

My point is the perpetual double standard.

NO IT ISN'T... you are leaving out so many other factors.. the other team has all of their picks going forward, it is trading surplus... The other team is filling in holes, where needed. they lose hansbrough a tough gritty kid off the bench, they replace him with a proven vet who is tough and a better offensive player... both are bout equal defensively.

we make a habit of trading picks for aging players, the pacers don't... This is not a double standard at all.

And where are you getting this injured bench player crap from? scola has played 66+ games every year since he has been in the league... and has always been an effective and productive professional.. he has also been a starter for most of his career.. where are you getting this stuff from you are posting?

simple question.. do you think Bargnani is a better player than scola?

I can tell you the knicks could actually use a guy like scola.. although he would not be among my first choices for this team, he certainly brings something to the table we need. he will rebound, he is gritting around the basket and can score in the paint.

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Do people honestly believe Cope is a better player than Bargs?

he dosen't have to be, if people feel they are close, then losing the 3 picks and adding that much salary is just not worth it..

If you're factoring in salary, you have to also consider we're lowering our payroll for Summer 2015 by making this trade, when Amar'e/Tyson/Melo (assuming he opts in for the final year) all come off the books.

tkf wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:i don't know, i think bargs fills a need for us,

we need a new way to score and bargs gives us a 7 footer that can make it rain, plus he'll take it to the hole or post you up,

we have a new way to score, that's what we needed most in the current setup,

and we got him essentially for free,

could be really good for us and if it's not really good, it can't really be bad,

he also will give us new ways to get scored on and beat on the board as well...

your forgetting that defense is played as a team. As long as he plays alongside any big not named Amare it should be OK.