nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:always thought Karl was overrated. Remember that Mutumbo/Denver team that upset the #1 Sonics with Payton and Kemp? Yeah, Denver upset Karl's team

This. That series forever ingrained into my memory that Karl was a loser way before Melo could even dunk:

The real issue with Karl is that he does such a good job getting the most out of his teams that it makes people think his rosters are actually better than they are. This guy hasn't had the INSANELY GREAT LUCK of a Phil Jax who had SUPREME talent on most of his teams. Karl has had some OK teams, but nothing as good as some of the all time great teams that have won titles. He's also been competing in the absolute best Conference for years. We live in the East and don't realize how tough the competition is in the West.

This is why I have vehemently defended MDA all these years. MDA got his team to 2 WCF's and got out of the 1st rd. 3 of 4 postseasons. This was against GREAT competition. MDA lost to the Spurs in 3 of 4 playoff series. Lost to the Mavs the other time. But just think about it, Karl didn't have 2 Superstars in Denver and he surely never had a Tim Duncan or Dirk. Melo is a very good player but he's not the same as Tim Duncan or Dirk!!! Karl is getting a bad rap.

He had an all time great in Gary Payton and lost to a borderline great in Mutombo.

So this is about his one greatest failure and not about the bulk of his career where he won with good talent and overachieved with less talent? GET A F'n CLUE!

What clue? All the evidence is in his 25 year sample size. Regular season winner, postseason loser. 'Tis fact baby!

Just be glad I didn't drag Dumbtoni into this.

The Clue is that most titles are won by the best players in the league. Magic/Kareem, Bird/McHale/Parish, Kobe/Shaq or Jordan/Pippen etc. Then there are the One Star + LOADED team types like the Isiah Pistons, Hakeem Rockets & Dirk Mavs. Those are the exceptions. The bulk of Karl's time in Denver he didn't have teams that were expected to win a title. Thus he's not a loser, but a guy that gets his teams to overachieve.

By the way losing in 6 to Michael Jordan in the finals isn't a bad mark on anyone's coaching career. That's literally one of the most difficult things to overcome. Beating Jordan in the finals!!! Karl never had an All Time Great Team by modern standards. Even his best team wasn't full of overwhelming talent. Really good team but not All Time Great.

you're selling his sonics teams really short, that team was as good as any team the wast had back then.

They had three 60 win seasons during that stretch.

How can I sell a team short if i'm saying it was not a shame to lose to Jordan in the finals? I'm not some spring chicken. I'm well aware of the record that team compiled, but i'm talking about a team having players we consider to be the Elite of their era. Peyton was one of the best, but no one would say back then that he was a lock to lead his team to a title. The kind of guys we think of being able to do that aren't even questioned. You know a Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Lebron, DWade, Kobe, Shaq is that kind of player. Then there are the guys just a level down from that Elite level. Peyton was in that pack just below. Karl is a great coach but he never had the luck a Phil Jax had in having the absolute best player in the league.

Of course Payton was below Jordan, but as a player he was defenfinely a first teir player.

Kemp was one of the best forwards in the game, that team had versatility solid shooter and more than enough defense.

To not even make the WCF multiple times is criminal.

Your comments are too general with regard to how that team performed. It's one thing to say that under Karl the team played at a high level, but you have to really break it down to figure out if they didn't advance BECAUSE of Karl as opposed to just losing because of something the players didn't do. It would take much more research than i'm willing to do in order to determine that. All I know is that it's not a indication of poor coaching to lose in 6 to the Jordan Bulls in the NBA Finals!!! 6 times other teams and Coaches failed to beat the Jordan Bulls in the Finals, which only emphasizes my point about beating the leagues best player with a lesser team.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less about Denver and Karl..I'm just amazed at all the guys who are now going hard at Woody, who had a great year despite the injuries, got to the second round and lost to a better team...These same posters now show up to be George Karl apologists...Simply Amazing....

Woody isn't a pimple on Karl's ass. Woody has yet to get to the Conference Finals once. Woody has been proven to be out coached in more than one playoff series in his career. You can lose and still prove to have done a great job coaching your team. Case in point is the job Mark Jackson did. No coach has made as many horrible decisions in the playoffs as Woody has. So let's slow down on how good Woody is.

Woody hasn't had great a great playoff series ever???...Your talking out of your arse because u just don't know...Horrible decision???..Not playing Copeland who got yelled at by every Knick player when he got on the court even Amare who played 2 sec in the playoffs...People whining about not playing Camby, dude been hurt all year, are u guys blind..The biggest MDA apologist on the planet, who did a disastrous job while here, yet u defend him like he is Pat freaking Riley.. 18-6 after MDA got fired with the same team, 54 wins with essentially the same team that MDA had..Suck on that...

TeamBall wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

BUT BUT...I thought you built dynasties in the mold of the young nuggets!

Youth and speed and ball movement and depth and...

WHAT!??!!

Both GM and Coach shown the door!!!

Well, there goes that theory...

The bubble is strong with this one.

What is this bubble you speak of?

The one they live in, it helps them suspend reality in favor of their belief system.

jrodmc wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

English please??

There's not even a typo. My posts don't translate well into Somber, sorry.
Try reading posts other than tkf and his various cloned, backslapping alter-egos, and you might get it.

Then again, you probably won't care to.

Read your own post, then read mine. Which one seems more hateful to you?
I dont give a rats ass whether Denver wins jack **** or not. I objected to the almost celebration like atmosphere that broke out when a very respectable coach got fired. And yes all the celebrating was done by those tgat suspend reality to live in their own belief bubble. In other news, Wilbon and Kornheiser just agreed tgat Karl is not a good coah he is a GREAT coach.

ChuckBuck wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

English please??

There's not even a typo. My posts don't translate well into Somber, sorry.
Try reading posts other than tkf and his various cloned, backslapping alter-egos, and you might get it.

Then again, you probably won't care to.

Read your own post, then read mine. Which one seems more hateful to you?
I dont give a rats ass whether Denver wins jack **** or not. I objected to the almost celebration like atmosphere that broke out when a very respectable coach got fired. And yes all the celebrating was done by those tgat suspend reality to live in their own belief bubble. In other news, Wilbon and Kornheiser just agreed tgat Karl is not a good coah he is a GREAT coach.

I guess greatness only gets you out of the first round once every 9 years.

I actually don't decide whether someone is great or not based on results alone. I do argue results because it seems to the common language people track with. I think Karl made his teams better than the sum of their parts. That to me is how you should decide if a coach is good or not. He did it this year as well, just like Vogel has in Indy.

loweyecue wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

English please??

There's not even a typo. My posts don't translate well into Somber, sorry.
Try reading posts other than tkf and his various cloned, backslapping alter-egos, and you might get it.

Then again, you probably won't care to.

Read your own post, then read mine. Which one seems more hateful to you?
I dont give a rats ass whether Denver wins jack **** or not. I objected to the almost celebration like atmosphere that broke out when a very respectable coach got fired. And yes all the celebrating was done by those tgat suspend reality to live in their own belief bubble. In other news, Wilbon and Kornheiser just agreed tgat Karl is not a good coah he is a GREAT coach.

I guess greatness only gets you out of the first round once every 9 years.

I actually don't decide whether someone is great or not based on results alone. I do argue results because it seems to the common language people track with. I think Karl made his teams better than the sum of their parts. That to me is how you should decide if a coach is good or not. He did it this year as well, just like Vogel has in Indy.

I give Vogel a hell of alot more credit than Karl. Guy brings it against the Heat as underdogs 2 years in a row. Karl can't seem to get out of the 1st round even with homecourt advantage.

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knickscity wrote:he really should just retire, career loser.

21 years straight winning seasons.

Im not saying he is a great man by any means but Knick fans calling that a "Losing" is pretty phuching funny in my book!

especially when they highlight camelo making the playoffs every year.. LOL...Karl has been winning since carmelo was pissing in his bed as a kid....

TKF Were you a bed pisser That what you said was not called for. However I notice when you get mad you really attack Melo calling him names Wow you are really pissed off or should I say you really piss the bed.

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

English please??

There's not even a typo. My posts don't translate well into Somber, sorry.
Try reading posts other than tkf and his various cloned, backslapping alter-egos, and you might get it.

Then again, you probably won't care to.

Read your own post, then read mine. Which one seems more hateful to you?
I dont give a rats ass whether Denver wins jack **** or not. I objected to the almost celebration like atmosphere that broke out when a very respectable coach got fired. And yes all the celebrating was done by those tgat suspend reality to live in their own belief bubble. In other news, Wilbon and Kornheiser just agreed tgat Karl is not a good coah he is a GREAT coach.

I don't think there is any need for celebrating but you are the guy that asked knick fans on this board to be less euphoric when dantoni resigned and the team won at an incredible rate under Woodson.

What has Woody ever shown in the playoffs that should give us confidence he can take a team to the promised land? So far he hasn't come close in his career to even looking like a difference making coach in the postseason. He's had some success in the regular season which is admirable, but that's not the reason he's been getting trashed. I simply don't believe Woody is a coach that can push a team over the top. We've seen better coaching from guys like Thibs, Mark Jackson and Vogel IMO. As much as guys have ragged on MDA's time in NY if you only count that part of his career then you're not even being realistic in evaluating his work. You just ignore his good work of getting to 2 WCF's and 1 Semi Final in 3 years. Look at the WC competition MDA went up against. Call me when Woody does that. Woody is not better than MDA, no matter how many wins Woody got with this team. MDA's career didn't just start with NY.

Karl has been to an NBA Finals! Can't put Woody in his class either. Fact is none of the Woody apologists seem to know how good Woody actually is. If we actually do improve the team will Woody know how to get the most out of that team and excel in the playoffs? Karl may have had a poor success rate in the playoffs but how much of that was him and how much was having to rely on Melo? That's another issue that has to be determined. What does that mean for us? What I do know is that Karl preaches TEAM BB. He's not the GM of his team or the owner. Karl got every ounce he could out of his teams. Just cuz his management disagreed with him doesn't mean they knew better than Karl on how to use his players. I'd tend to think Karl knows more about BB than any of those guys.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Yes, the Denver apologists are in full swing mode now.

Karl, the great coach, who dragged CancerMoobyMelo to the WCF on the back of the likes of AI and Chauncey.

Karl, he with the more regular season wins than our suckhole, can't get it done in the playoffs, please fire him now, Coach Woody

He wasn't fired, he was mutually "oustered". Good for him and his attempted money grab! At least he's not a grubbing Starphucque like our Mooby!

Denver, the up and coming, ever-improving, properly built out of tremendous Knick "assets", potenshull-filled, out in the first round model,
Knicks, the rapidly decelerating, built for yesterday, Starphucqued, dysfunctionally decrepid, out in the second round model.

Wonder if Karl ends up in Toronto? Can't wait to see him turn Rudy Gay and Landry Fields into the next Gallo and Wilson.

English please??

There's not even a typo. My posts don't translate well into Somber, sorry.
Try reading posts other than tkf and his various cloned, backslapping alter-egos, and you might get it.

Then again, you probably won't care to.

Read your own post, then read mine. Which one seems more hateful to you?
I dont give a rats ass whether Denver wins jack **** or not. I objected to the almost celebration like atmosphere that broke out when a very respectable coach got fired. And yes all the celebrating was done by those tgat suspend reality to live in their own belief bubble. In other news, Wilbon and Kornheiser just agreed tgat Karl is not a good coah he is a GREAT coach.

I don't think there is any need for celebrating but you are the guy that asked knick fans on this board to be less euphoric when dantoni resigned and the team won at an incredible rate under Woodson.

What has Woody ever shown in the playoffs that should give us confidence he can take a team to the promised land? So far he hasn't come close in his career to even looking like a difference making coach in the postseason. He's had some success in the regular season which is admirable, but that's not the reason he's been getting trashed. I simply don't believe Woody is a coach that can push a team over the top. We've seen better coaching from guys like Thibs, Mark Jackson and Vogel IMO. As much as guys have ragged on MDA's time in NY if you only count that part of his career then you're not even being realistic in evaluating his work. You just ignore his good work of getting to 2 WCF's and 1 Semi Final in 3 years. Look at the WC competition MDA went up against. Call me when Woody does that. Woody is not better than MDA, no matter how many wins Woody got with this team. MDA's career didn't just start with NY.

Karl has been to an NBA Finals! Can't put Woody in his class either. Fact is none of the Woody apologists seem to know how good Woody actually is. If we actually do improve the team will Woody know how to get the most out of that team and excel in the playoffs? Karl may have had a poor success rate in the playoffs but how much of that was him and how much was having to rely on Melo? That's another issue that has to be determined. What does that mean for us? What I do know is that Karl preaches TEAM BB. He's not the GM of his team or the owner. Karl got every ounce he could out of his teams. Just cuz his management disagreed with him doesn't mean they knew better than Karl on how to use his players. I'd tend to think Karl knows more about BB than any of those guys.

I was responding to the frequent requests not to celebrate including when the Knicks have success if it is a coach that some don't like, Not debating Karl/Woodson not sure what inspired your post.

My response was more a finishing up of many thoughts on the subject of Woodson, Karl, MDA... coaches in general compared to Woody. We've seen Woody in the postseason in NY and we have his record in ATL. Neither is very inspiring. A guy like Karl gets fired which is their right to do, but that shouldn't reflect on how good of a coach Karl actually is. Sometimes it just doesn't fit between a coach and a teams leadership. Woody is in a favorable situation in terms of his relationship with management. He's got 1000% support for what he wants to do.

Year won Coach Team Fired Date
2005-06 Avery Johnson Dallas Mavericks April 30, 2008
2006-07 Sam Mitchell Toronto Raptors Dec. 3, 2008
2007-08 Byron Scott New Orleans Hornets Nov. 12, 2009
2008-09 Mike Brown Cleveland Cavaliers May 24, 2010
2009-10 Scott Brooks Oklahoma City Thunder Still with team
2010-11 Tom Thibodeau Chicago Bulls Still with team
2011-12 Gregg Popovich San Antonio Spurs Still with team
2012-13 George Karl Denver Nuggets June 6, 2013

By the way, it's unsure if they parted ways or he was fired. Several news papers in Denver and mainstream outlets are calling it a firing while Epsn, Denver post and SI uses the word "out"