3G4G wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

3G4G wrote:As has been stated it shows how important Nash was first and foremost always and forever but second no player no matter what team he plays for is absolved from not giving full effort something Melo admitted he didn't do when D'Antoni was the coach. For this reason among many others he's made it hard for me to support him as a player.

Dwight Howard very similar to Melo in that he derailed Orlando. I loved the fact Orlando kicked their butts yesterday. I'm hoping if Kyrie can get back on the mend soon the Cavs can be every bit the foe for the Heat.

I do not, will not, support players who do things on their terms that in any way sets back a team or becomes a detriment to a team's present and long-term success.

Sorry I have standards

Yet MDA is absolved for admittingly quitting on the Suns, then quitting on the Knicks.

Who absolved him from quitting on this team? He went to mgmt made a request to trade for Deron and it's obvious how things shook down from there. He wasn't extended, somewhat forced to hire a defensive assistant, at odds with star, star at odds with him, the writing was on the wall, he was lame duck, he took the safe route not good.

I said from jump we should have never hired D'Antoni nevertheless it doesn't absolve Melo.

You state who absolved him from quitting in the beggining then go on to paint the picture on how everyone else did him wrong with absolutely no criticism.

He went to mgmt for Deron because he needed a stud PG. Lin started to fall off and wasn't reliable enough and he was running out of time to make it happen for the playoffs. He was forced to hire a defensive assistant because he deosn't teach defense which is one of his flaws as a coach. Again rather then accepting that as a flaw its painted as him being wronged. He was at odds with the roster which spilled over to the star since it put both he and the star in a compromising position.

MDA gets treated like the innocent coach who was treated unfairly, while Melo gets painted as the evil coach killer who ran him out of town. Truth is the roster wasn't set up for MDA to run his style of play so he needed to adapt until he got the pieces in place to do so.

It went for last season Melo as the sole reason to why MDA's offense didn't run smooth last season due to him being an out of shape, selfish, coach killer to Kobe, Gasol, Howard needing Steve Nash to make the offense work.

newyorknewyork wrote:

3G4G wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

3G4G wrote:As has been stated it shows how important Nash was first and foremost always and forever but second no player no matter what team he plays for is absolved from not giving full effort something Melo admitted he didn't do when D'Antoni was the coach. For this reason among many others he's made it hard for me to support him as a player.

Dwight Howard very similar to Melo in that he derailed Orlando. I loved the fact Orlando kicked their butts yesterday. I'm hoping if Kyrie can get back on the mend soon the Cavs can be every bit the foe for the Heat.

I do not, will not, support players who do things on their terms that in any way sets back a team or becomes a detriment to a team's present and long-term success.

Sorry I have standards

Yet MDA is absolved for admittingly quitting on the Suns, then quitting on the Knicks.

Who absolved him from quitting on this team? He went to mgmt made a request to trade for Deron and it's obvious how things shook down from there. He wasn't extended, somewhat forced to hire a defensive assistant, at odds with star, star at odds with him, the writing was on the wall, he was lame duck, he took the safe route not good.

I said from jump we should have never hired D'Antoni nevertheless it doesn't absolve Melo.

You state who absolved him from quitting in the beggining then go on to paint the picture on how everyone else did him wrong with absolutely no criticism.

He went to mgmt for Deron because he needed a stud PG. Lin started to fall off and wasn't reliable enough and he was running out of time to make it happen for the playoffs. He was forced to hire a defensive assistant because he deosn't teach defense which is one of his flaws as a coach. Again rather then accepting that as a flaw its painted as him being wronged. He was at odds with the roster which spilled over to the star since it put both he and the star in a compromising position.

MDA gets treated like the innocent coach who was treated unfairly, while Melo gets painted as the evil coach killer who ran him out of town. Truth is the roster wasn't set up for MDA to run his style of play so he needed to adapt until he got the pieces in place to do so.

It went for last season Melo as the sole reason to why MDA's offense didn't run smooth last season due to him being an out of shape, selfish, coach killer to Kobe, Gasol, Howard needing Steve Nash to make the offense work.

A great coach adapt..did Riley complain when he got to New York and didnt have a All-World PG with a roster full of hall of famers. No he adapted and scrapped showtime and play'd rugged basketball that fit his roster. Saying Dantoni didn't have players for his system is ridiculous. He signed up and knew the roster he was getting and his goal should have been to get the most out of it. No coach out there is afraid of Dantoni out coaching them. He is a bum coach.

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Some people just hate without thinking..

Even with steve nash there still going to be a bunch of mis fits, those guys just don't compliment each other..I know it was preseaon, but going 0-8 and 1-4 to start a season with that much talent can only mean one thing, they lack chemistry big time..

MDA, has again been toss a below avg pg, and thats only half his promblem..look at gasol numbers, he's avg 12pts on 42% shooting on the season, that coming from a guy who's career avg is 18.5 on 51% shooting.

Did anybody bother to read WOODSONS Q&A with steve serby in sundays NY post..He mention that if the entire team is not on board 100%, it won't work, he also mention that he had the luxury of hand picking his aquistions over the summer, getting guys that fit, guys that are smart, guys bench guys that won't require a lot of minute but can be factors when the do play..Gasol is not on board at all, he's bitching and whinning and he is a key piece on that team..

Q: Have you noticed a change in commitment from a year ago to now?

A: Yes. And a lot of that is the players that we filled in this summer to be on our ball club. We brought in some veteran guys that, their clock is ticking, too. I forgot to mention Rasheed Wallace is on this team, he has a ring, too. A lot of those veteran guys — a few of ’em — haven’t had an opportunity to win a title. Like Marcus Camby ... Raymond Felton, [Carmelo Anthony], Amar’e [Stoudemire] ... they haven’t tasted an NBA title. So, we were able to assemble guys that we thought could come in here and help us, didn’t have to worry about playing big minutes, but be a positive piece to our puzzle. And I think that’s been the difference so far this early season is the fact that we have veteran guys that are hungry ... that really believe that this team, if we stay healthy and we stay together that we got a legitimate shot.
Charles Wenzelberg/New York Post
Mike Woodson

Q: How do you get a team to believe?

A: First you gotta trust one another, and that was a big theme when we started camp. The only way you’re gonna be a team — and it’s gotta be team and win. That’s all I think about —team, win. And how that happens, you gotta trust one another and you gotta be committed.

A coach will have very little success if he doesn't have the type of players that fit his system, it's a known fact..Why do some of you keep blaming MDA for coaching a roster he had nothing to do with and expecting him to adapt..Its ridiculous to think that..

The guy essentially won 2 gold medals with his system..

bold part -- wouldnt having the best players on earth have had something to do with that? i suspect they coulda won playing many diff offensive systems with that talent.

2004 olympic team was very talented

Allen Iverson
Stephon Marbury
Dwyane Wade
Carlos Boozer
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Emeka Okafor
Shawn Marion
Amar'e Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Lamar Odom
Richard Jefferson

but they had the worse chemistry ever and thats why they won the bronze

Talent is just half the puzzle

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Some people just hate without thinking..

Even with steve nash there still going to be a bunch of mis fits, those guys just don't compliment each other..I know it was preseaon, but going 0-8 and 1-4 to start a season with that much talent can only mean one thing, they lack chemistry big time..

MDA, has again been toss a below avg pg, and thats only half his promblem..look at gasol numbers, he's avg 12pts on 42% shooting on the season, that coming from a guy who's career avg is 18.5 on 51% shooting.

Did anybody bother to read WOODSONS Q&A with steve serby in sundays NY post..He mention that if the entire team is not on board 100%, it won't work, he also mention that he had the luxury of hand picking his aquistions over the summer, getting guys that fit, guys that are smart, guys bench guys that won't require a lot of minute but can be factors when the do play..Gasol is not on board at all, he's bitching and whinning and he is a key piece on that team..

Q: Have you noticed a change in commitment from a year ago to now?

A: Yes. And a lot of that is the players that we filled in this summer to be on our ball club. We brought in some veteran guys that, their clock is ticking, too. I forgot to mention Rasheed Wallace is on this team, he has a ring, too. A lot of those veteran guys — a few of ’em — haven’t had an opportunity to win a title. Like Marcus Camby ... Raymond Felton, [Carmelo Anthony], Amar’e [Stoudemire] ... they haven’t tasted an NBA title. So, we were able to assemble guys that we thought could come in here and help us, didn’t have to worry about playing big minutes, but be a positive piece to our puzzle. And I think that’s been the difference so far this early season is the fact that we have veteran guys that are hungry ... that really believe that this team, if we stay healthy and we stay together that we got a legitimate shot.
Charles Wenzelberg/New York Post
Mike Woodson

Q: How do you get a team to believe?

A: First you gotta trust one another, and that was a big theme when we started camp. The only way you’re gonna be a team — and it’s gotta be team and win. That’s all I think about —team, win. And how that happens, you gotta trust one another and you gotta be committed.

A coach will have very little success if he doesn't have the type of players that fit his system, it's a known fact..Why do some of you keep blaming MDA for coaching a roster he had nothing to do with and expecting him to adapt..Its ridiculous to think that..

The guy essentially won 2 gold medals with his system..

bold part -- wouldnt having the best players on earth have had something to do with that? i suspect they coulda won playing many diff offensive systems with that talent.

2004 olympic team was very talented

Allen Iverson
Stephon Marbury
Dwyane Wade
Carlos Boozer
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James
Emeka Okafor
Shawn Marion
Amar'e Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Lamar Odom
Richard Jefferson

but they had the worse chemistry ever and thats why they won the bronze

Talent is just half the puzzle

2004 saw a number of players choose to not play. the make up those teams was a primary focus of the recent teams and how they were built. cant prove it, i still suspect they would have crushed most teams playing many styles as they had built a team that can compete under international rules/style way better than the 2004 squad.

Wade Anthony and Lebron didn't really even play Larry Brown went with the vets and that team had no size.

Bonn1997 wrote:Bringing gold medals back to the USA? .700 seasons with Phoenix?
When MDA's teams win, it's because of the players. When they lose, it's because of the coach.

Blame is very important to many folks.

I blame them for great redundancy on the UK.

Bonn1997 wrote:Bringing gold medals back to the USA? .700 seasons with Phoenix?
When MDA's teams win, it's because of the players. When they lose, it's because of the coach.

Well at least he is one of the only assistant coaches who gets credit for bringing gold medals back.

All this talk right now is way to premature.

Bonn1997 wrote:Bringing gold medals back to the USA? .700 seasons with Phoenix?
When MDA's teams win, it's because of the players. When they lose, it's because of the coach.

I'm not looking to knock MDA but he was the offensive assistant for the team he wasn't the head coach. Coach K and Nate Mcmillian on the defensive side contributed just as much as MDA to the teams success, as did the players. Y its being stated like MDA is the reason why USA won gold is stretching out the accomplishment just a little bit.

This thread wasn't really made for MDA though it was made for the players as I have stated about 4 times and targeted in the OP.

But it is ironic that if a coach is put in a position that doesn't maximize his coaching ability then for some that is allowed to be used as an excuse. Yet if a player is put in a position that doesn't maximize his talent then for some of the same group of ppl they have no problem putting blame on the player.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Bringing gold medals back to the USA? .700 seasons with Phoenix?
When MDA's teams win, it's because of the players. When they lose, it's because of the coach.

I'm not looking to knock MDA but he was the offensive assistant for the team he wasn't the head coach. Coach K and Nate Mcmillian on the defensive side contributed just as much as MDA to the teams success, as did the players. Y its being stated like MDA is the reason why USA won gold is stretching out the accomplishment just a little bit.

This thread wasn't really made for MDA though it was made for the players as I have stated about 4 times and targeted in the OP.

But it is ironic that if a coach is put in a position that doesn't maximize his coaching ability then for some that is allowed to be used as an excuse. Yet if a player is put in a position that doesn't maximize his talent then for some of the same group of ppl they have no problem putting blame on the player.

I just think some folks take MDA's tenure in NY and use it justify his credentials..
The blame is on the players for the most part.

It's like MDA should take 12 guys off these boards put them through training camp, and have us playing .600 ball in the nba.

It's pretty simple, if the players ain't buying what the coach is selling, hows he suppose to be successful.

Whats also pretty obvious, If you have a below avg pg, your going to have a below avg record. You think if you put CHRIS DUHON on that olympic team instead of CP3 they'll have the same success..

Mray20 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Right. As much as I hate Dantoni's coaching philosophy I think you have to wait to see what the team looks like with Nash and once Pau is traded for complimentary pieces before callig this a failure what 5 games in?

So its okay for Kobe, Howard, Gasol, to have to wait for Nash. But its Melo's fault for not being successful in the same system with Tony Douglas as his PG.

Didn't Dwight Howard lead a team to the finals practically by himself? Now he has to depend on Nash?

in the lakers case nash was brought here as part of a grand plan with specific players in mind.

knicks were not afforded that luxury with the carmelo trade.

this is another case of apples and oranges.

of course the lakers NEED nash.

and so the question remains: did the knicks truly need carmelo?

The Lakers need Nash? They have Kobe Bryant one of the best players in NBA history and Dwight Howard the best center in the NBA by far and former defensive player of the year, as well as Pau Gasol, but they're waiting on a 38 year old PG to save their team? Nash should push them over the top not be the end all be all , they should still be a top team even without him given the talent they have. BTW without Carmelo the Knicks would be a lottery team yes the Knicks need him especially with no Amare

as to your BTW statement... not a fan of revisionist history which is what your doing here.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Bringing gold medals back to the USA? .700 seasons with Phoenix?
When MDA's teams win, it's because of the players. When they lose, it's because of the coach.

I'm not looking to knock MDA but he was the offensive assistant for the team he wasn't the head coach. Coach K and Nate Mcmillian on the defensive side contributed just as much as MDA to the teams success, as did the players. Y its being stated like MDA is the reason why USA won gold is stretching out the accomplishment just a little bit.

This thread wasn't really made for MDA though it was made for the players as I have stated about 4 times and targeted in the OP.

But it is ironic that if a coach is put in a position that doesn't maximize his coaching ability then for some that is allowed to be used as an excuse. Yet if a player is put in a position that doesn't maximize his talent then for some of the same group of ppl they have no problem putting blame on the player.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Bringing gold medals back to the USA? .700 seasons with Phoenix?
When MDA's teams win, it's because of the players. When they lose, it's because of the coach.

I'm not looking to knock MDA but he was the offensive assistant for the team he wasn't the head coach. Coach K and Nate Mcmillian on the defensive side contributed just as much as MDA to the teams success, as did the players. Y its being stated like MDA is the reason why USA won gold is stretching out the accomplishment just a little bit.

This thread wasn't really made for MDA though it was made for the players as I have stated about 4 times and targeted in the OP.

But it is ironic that if a coach is put in a position that doesn't maximize his coaching ability then for some that is allowed to be used as an excuse. Yet if a player is put in a position that doesn't maximize his talent then for some of the same group of ppl they have no problem putting blame on the player.

I just think some folks take MDA's tenure in NY and use it justify his credentials..
The blame is on the players for the most part.

It's like MDA should take 12 guys off these boards put them through training camp, and have us playing .600 ball in the nba.

It's pretty simple, if the players ain't buying what the coach is selling, hows he suppose to be successful.

Whats also pretty obvious, If you have a below avg pg, your going to have a below avg record. You think if you put CHRIS DUHON on that olympic team instead of CP3 they'll have the same success..

yea, MDA had his flaws, but he is a very good coach.. the same with brown, chaney, wilkins... I never sided with the players over the years, especially with this knick teams... one thing was always constant.. through all the coach's that came through here, dolan was the constant and salty, flawed star players, were the constant here in NY.. no matter what coach left, this team never got better.. or at least played up to the level of the salaries on the books..