dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

No title epic failure? Very CUTE! Uh .... when was the last time this franchise won a title and are you saying that with the mediocre team we had prior to the trade, we would have won a title? Or, that we were heading in that direction?

This is called irresponsible posting. I respect your insight but this is complete partisanship.

I don't love a much of Melo's game but I try to keep an eye on the flip side too. And actually, I said that I would not judge the trade until the 3 year point and I won't but I'll tell you that it is looking better and better! Do you actually think they are/should compete for a title this year? If yes, then are you saying that the knicks made all the right moves putting together a contending team? I assume not. You obviously believe that the knicks might win a playoff series so now we/you need to up the expectation so that you can hang on to the thought/opinion that everything that Melo does or accomplishes should be viewed as a failure.

Also, TKF. Its not about his posting, agenda and/or opinions. They are not original on the UK or anywhere else. People should feel free to express any opinion but where does habitual posting stop? How about posting the same opinion every 4-5 seconds? Would that be offensive to you? Or, does it depends on the context of what was being posted every 4-5 seconds?

My expectation is for the knicks to win a playoff series. Anything less - I would consider a failure.

we were better than mediocre at 28-26 and had a plan in place to get better. i believe at 28-26 we were a 6th seed-- could be wrong about that-- and felton was on a two-year very reasonable contract. with d'antoni and stoudemire here the next move was an upgrade at point guard.

and because lebron did what he did i feel that dolan went on tilt and overreacted-- going for piling up talent with absolutely no plan in place. it was an emotional move not a rational one. now did he make the move with the intention of winning a title or didn't he? and if he didn't then what are we talking about

i am surprised your standard for success is so low.

my point is that for all the upheaval the trade has caused the knicks HAD BETTER make it to the ecf in order to justify the trade since the trade was in fact an all-in move... win now or else.

We were 12-16 for the 28 games prior to the trade and 14-14 post trade. We were worse than mediocre and spiraling fast. Brass thought that a move s should be made because that team was heading nowhere.

I was upset that the Nets got Deron and that Donnie appeared to have missed the boat and had no idea that Deron was on the market.

I thought that we gave up too much and was upset that we included Mozgov.

I think I might have been wrong on both counts.

I am also quite certain that the knicks botched up big time with Amare and possibly Tyson as well.

My standards are low - yes. Level setting expectations based on track record is quite important when judging anything.

I think we can win 50 games this year - that is exciting since we have sucked forever!

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

No title epic failure? Very CUTE! Uh .... when was the last time this franchise won a title and are you saying that with the mediocre team we had prior to the trade, we would have won a title? Or, that we were heading in that direction?

This is called irresponsible posting. I respect your insight but this is complete partisanship.

I don't love a much of Melo's game but I try to keep an eye on the flip side too. And actually, I said that I would not judge the trade until the 3 year point and I won't but I'll tell you that it is looking better and better! Do you actually think they are/should compete for a title this year? If yes, then are you saying that the knicks made all the right moves putting together a contending team? I assume not. You obviously believe that the knicks might win a playoff series so now we/you need to up the expectation so that you can hang on to the thought/opinion that everything that Melo does or accomplishes should be viewed as a failure.

Also, TKF. Its not about his posting, agenda and/or opinions. They are not original on the UK or anywhere else. People should feel free to express any opinion but where does habitual posting stop? How about posting the same opinion every 4-5 seconds? Would that be offensive to you? Or, does it depends on the context of what was being posted every 4-5 seconds?

My expectation is for the knicks to win a playoff series. Anything less - I would consider a failure.

we were better than mediocre at 28-26 and had a plan in place to get better. i believe at 28-26 we were a 6th seed-- could be wrong about that-- and felton was on a two-year very reasonable contract. with d'antoni and stoudemire here the next move was an upgrade at point guard.

and because lebron did what he did i feel that dolan went on tilt and overreacted-- going for piling up talent with absolutely no plan in place. it was an emotional move not a rational one. now did he make the move with the intention of winning a title or didn't he? and if he didn't then what are we talking about

i am surprised your standard for success is so low.

my point is that for all the upheaval the trade has caused the knicks HAD BETTER make it to the ecf in order to justify the trade since the trade was in fact an all-in move... win now or else.

We were 12-16 for the 28 games prior to the trade and 14-14 post trade. We were worse than mediocre and spiraling fast. Brass thought that a move s should be made because that team was heading nowhere.

I was upset that the Nets got Deron and that Donnie appeared to have missed the boat and had no idea that Deron was on the market.

I thought that we gave up too much and was upset that we included Mozgov.

I think I might have been wrong on both counts.

I am also quite certain that the knicks botched up big time with Amare and possibly Tyson as well.

My standards are low - yes. Level setting expectations based on track record is quite important when judging anything.

I think we can win 50 games this year - that is exciting since we have sucked forever!

The Melo trade had Billups attached to it who's contract was ending around the same time as Chris Paul's. Even with the Melo trade we still had cap space available to go after a Chris Paul type of player. I believe feeling was that Gallo, Chandler etc would never be able to compete with Lebron, Wade, Bosh. That pairing Amare and Melo then using the cap space off of Billups contract would give them the cappabilities of putting together a contender. They ended up using the cap space on Tyson though probably thinking he would be able to matchup with Bosh.

The Melo trade may have saved us from praying on Amare's health as our franchise player.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

You're right about that but just what do you expect us fans to do about it? We dont advise Dolan (not that he'd listen anyway) nor do we run the Knicks organization. Coming from someone with a lot of friends who detested the trade, it gets annoying hearing about it all the time.

but look at it from another point of view, the constant bashing of former players, the consistent selling of carmelo to the fans as a MVP 4 games into the season, the Hockey assists, the "melo effect", I mean why try to push him down our throats.. we know who he is and you can't make him more than that.. no matter how much fans may want it..

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

You're right about that but just what do you expect us fans to do about it? We dont advise Dolan (not that he'd listen anyway) nor do we run the Knicks organization. Coming from someone with a lot of friends who detested the trade, it gets annoying hearing about it all the time.

you know how you hear that new york basketball fans are the smartest and all that stuff? you hear it from players, coaches, analysts and so on. i am not sure how much we can believe these things, but there is one thing that many knick fans can safely assume:

WE ARE SMARTER THAN JAMES DOLAN AND ARE MORE INTERESTED IN WINNING THAN DOLAN. THEREFORE ANY MOVE THAT DOLAN IS BEHIND IS THE WRONG MOVE.

melo and dolan are attached at the hip ideologically. and because i believe the two of them were basically in cahoots to the diminishment of those around them i feel obliged to hold melo responsible.

is it unfair to credit the team when it wins and blame melo when they lose? on the face of it no it is not. but then if he is not playing genuine team ball-- something he has not been known to do and has led to failure-- whether we win or lose he deserves criticism.

take a look at the last two games: in both cases he is getting his and the only difference is the quality of the opponent. when it comes to a good quality opponent then getting his is not going to lead to victory.

and dolan is EXCACTLY the same: he may be getting his too, but it is not going to lead to victory.

those two are so made for each other.. the sad thing is both ended up in NY..... we will be rid of one in a few years god willing.... the other.. will take a miracle.....hopefully dolan has other children with a brain..

tkf wrote:but look at it from another point of view, the constant bashing of former players, the consistent selling of carmelo to the fans as a MVP 4 games into the season, the Hockey assists, the "melo effect", I mean why try to push him down our throats.. we know who he is and you can't make him more than that.. no matter how much fans may want it..

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

No title epic failure? Very CUTE! Uh .... when was the last time this franchise won a title and are you saying that with the mediocre team we had prior to the trade, we would have won a title? Or, that we were heading in that direction?

This is called irresponsible posting. I respect your insight but this is complete partisanship.

I don't love a much of Melo's game but I try to keep an eye on the flip side too. And actually, I said that I would not judge the trade until the 3 year point and I won't but I'll tell you that it is looking better and better! Do you actually think they are/should compete for a title this year? If yes, then are you saying that the knicks made all the right moves putting together a contending team? I assume not. You obviously believe that the knicks might win a playoff series so now we/you need to up the expectation so that you can hang on to the thought/opinion that everything that Melo does or accomplishes should be viewed as a failure.

Also, TKF. Its not about his posting, agenda and/or opinions. They are not original on the UK or anywhere else. People should feel free to express any opinion but where does habitual posting stop? How about posting the same opinion every 4-5 seconds? Would that be offensive to you? Or, does it depends on the context of what was being posted every 4-5 seconds?

My expectation is for the knicks to win a playoff series. Anything less - I would consider a failure.

we were better than mediocre at 28-26 and had a plan in place to get better. i believe at 28-26 we were a 6th seed-- could be wrong about that-- and felton was on a two-year very reasonable contract. with d'antoni and stoudemire here the next move was an upgrade at point guard.

and because lebron did what he did i feel that dolan went on tilt and overreacted-- going for piling up talent with absolutely no plan in place. it was an emotional move not a rational one. now did he make the move with the intention of winning a title or didn't he? and if he didn't then what are we talking about

i am surprised your standard for success is so low.

my point is that for all the upheaval the trade has caused the knicks HAD BETTER make it to the ecf in order to justify the trade since the trade was in fact an all-in move... win now or else.

28-26 is as mediocre as it gets.

If the future was so promising, then why are Gallinari, Chandler, and Mozgov all major disappointments?

denver is very happy with gallo and they have chandler and moz in their LONG term plans.. something we don't do here in NY....... but we gave up cap space and picks.. come 2016, NY fans may be crying in their coffee when or if we convey a lottery pick to the nuggets... that is a possibility...

Um, having those guys long term is not a good thing.

newyorknewyork wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

No title epic failure? Very CUTE! Uh .... when was the last time this franchise won a title and are you saying that with the mediocre team we had prior to the trade, we would have won a title? Or, that we were heading in that direction?

This is called irresponsible posting. I respect your insight but this is complete partisanship.

I don't love a much of Melo's game but I try to keep an eye on the flip side too. And actually, I said that I would not judge the trade until the 3 year point and I won't but I'll tell you that it is looking better and better! Do you actually think they are/should compete for a title this year? If yes, then are you saying that the knicks made all the right moves putting together a contending team? I assume not. You obviously believe that the knicks might win a playoff series so now we/you need to up the expectation so that you can hang on to the thought/opinion that everything that Melo does or accomplishes should be viewed as a failure.

Also, TKF. Its not about his posting, agenda and/or opinions. They are not original on the UK or anywhere else. People should feel free to express any opinion but where does habitual posting stop? How about posting the same opinion every 4-5 seconds? Would that be offensive to you? Or, does it depends on the context of what was being posted every 4-5 seconds?

My expectation is for the knicks to win a playoff series. Anything less - I would consider a failure.

we were better than mediocre at 28-26 and had a plan in place to get better. i believe at 28-26 we were a 6th seed-- could be wrong about that-- and felton was on a two-year very reasonable contract. with d'antoni and stoudemire here the next move was an upgrade at point guard.

and because lebron did what he did i feel that dolan went on tilt and overreacted-- going for piling up talent with absolutely no plan in place. it was an emotional move not a rational one. now did he make the move with the intention of winning a title or didn't he? and if he didn't then what are we talking about

i am surprised your standard for success is so low.

my point is that for all the upheaval the trade has caused the knicks HAD BETTER make it to the ecf in order to justify the trade since the trade was in fact an all-in move... win now or else.

We were 12-16 for the 28 games prior to the trade and 14-14 post trade. We were worse than mediocre and spiraling fast. Brass thought that a move s should be made because that team was heading nowhere.

I was upset that the Nets got Deron and that Donnie appeared to have missed the boat and had no idea that Deron was on the market.

I thought that we gave up too much and was upset that we included Mozgov.

I think I might have been wrong on both counts.

I am also quite certain that the knicks botched up big time with Amare and possibly Tyson as well.

My standards are low - yes. Level setting expectations based on track record is quite important when judging anything.

I think we can win 50 games this year - that is exciting since we have sucked forever!

The Melo trade had Billups attached to it who's contract was ending around the same time as Chris Paul's. Even with the Melo trade we still had cap space available to go after a Chris Paul type of player. I believe feeling was that Gallo, Chandler etc would never be able to compete with Lebron, Wade, Bosh. That pairing Amare and Melo then using the cap space off of Billups contract would give them the cappabilities of putting together a contender. They ended up using the cap space on Tyson though probably thinking he would be able to matchup with Bosh.

The Melo trade may have saved us from praying on Amare's health as our franchise player.

Bingo!

They had lots of flexibility and not to mention an amnesty!

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

No title epic failure? Very CUTE! Uh .... when was the last time this franchise won a title and are you saying that with the mediocre team we had prior to the trade, we would have won a title? Or, that we were heading in that direction?

This is called irresponsible posting. I respect your insight but this is complete partisanship.

I don't love a much of Melo's game but I try to keep an eye on the flip side too. And actually, I said that I would not judge the trade until the 3 year point and I won't but I'll tell you that it is looking better and better! Do you actually think they are/should compete for a title this year? If yes, then are you saying that the knicks made all the right moves putting together a contending team? I assume not. You obviously believe that the knicks might win a playoff series so now we/you need to up the expectation so that you can hang on to the thought/opinion that everything that Melo does or accomplishes should be viewed as a failure.

Also, TKF. Its not about his posting, agenda and/or opinions. They are not original on the UK or anywhere else. People should feel free to express any opinion but where does habitual posting stop? How about posting the same opinion every 4-5 seconds? Would that be offensive to you? Or, does it depends on the context of what was being posted every 4-5 seconds?

My expectation is for the knicks to win a playoff series. Anything less - I would consider a failure.

we were better than mediocre at 28-26 and had a plan in place to get better. i believe at 28-26 we were a 6th seed-- could be wrong about that-- and felton was on a two-year very reasonable contract. with d'antoni and stoudemire here the next move was an upgrade at point guard.

and because lebron did what he did i feel that dolan went on tilt and overreacted-- going for piling up talent with absolutely no plan in place. it was an emotional move not a rational one. now did he make the move with the intention of winning a title or didn't he? and if he didn't then what are we talking about

i am surprised your standard for success is so low.

my point is that for all the upheaval the trade has caused the knicks HAD BETTER make it to the ecf in order to justify the trade since the trade was in fact an all-in move... win now or else.

We were 12-16 for the 28 games prior to the trade and 14-14 post trade. We were worse than mediocre and spiraling fast. Brass thought that a move s should be made because that team was heading nowhere.

I was upset that the Nets got Deron and that Donnie appeared to have missed the boat and had no idea that Deron was on the market.

I thought that we gave up too much and was upset that we included Mozgov.

I think I might have been wrong on both counts.

I am also quite certain that the knicks botched up big time with Amare and possibly Tyson as well.

My standards are low - yes. Level setting expectations based on track record is quite important when judging anything.

I think we can win 50 games this year - that is exciting since we have sucked forever!

i am not a big fan of picking a cross section of games to illustrate a point. at one point we were 15-9 at another 22-15. we went on winning streaks and losing streaks. i look at the overall record at the time of the trade, and more important our playoff seed, which at the time i believe was 6th... hardly mediocre although not close to contending status. but that's not the point of that team at that time-- they were not all in and were building for long-term championship aspirations. with this team we are talking about championship aspirations in the immediate future. again, with this in mind your standards are impossibly low! after 12 years of being a joke why should we expect an immediate contender status unless we somehow got lbj here?

unless you are danny ainge or mitch kuptchak no other team is going to do you any favors for an immediate turnaround.

"brass thought a move should be made" what does this really mean other than a facile assumption on your part, or a convenient gloss?

Its not a "cross section" of games. Its momentum, injuries and how they were playing as well as the proposed direction of where they were headed. Was Amare not breaking down?

My standards are certainly low based on history. My standards were even lower in 2010 prior to the trade - living and dying with 3's. My standards shattered when we paid 100 million bucks for a brittle Amare that no team(s) had any interest in. So yes ... I have low standards, but, they are higher than they have been in a decade.

Even after the Melo trade, we were not all in. We went all in by amnestying Billups and signing Tyson! Oh ... and I am sure that MDA was thrilled that we left him with TD as our starting PG.

"brass thought a move should be made" what does this really mean other than a facile assumption on your part, or a convenient gloss? NO IDEA WHAT YOU WANT HERE. Why do you assume that this was a facile assumption? It was blatantly the case.

GodNa7ion wrote:

Uptown wrote:How about we live in the moment and enjoy 9-3 in 2012. We haven't had a start like this in a very long time. Who cares about 2016....

its funny guys think in 3 years Melo will be gone, NO, he's retiring a Knick so will Chandler/JR/Novak/Shumpert/Stoudemire/Felton(maybe)

this is our core deal with it

you are delusional.. novak will be gone as soon as his deal is done, hopefully carmelo opts out in 2014 and he is greedy and will want the years so I hope so and I hope we don't match... felton, amare, chandler, JR will all be gone at the end of their deals and as far as shump? go back and do some research and find the last time the knicks ever extended any of their draft picks....

amare will be 33 with even worse knees, chandler will be 33 as well by then.. carmelo will be 32 with a lot of miles, and you think this is a core that will retire knicks? say what?

GodNa7ion wrote:

Uptown wrote:How about we live in the moment and enjoy 9-3 in 2012. We haven't had a start like this in a very long time. Who cares about 2016....

its funny guys think in 3 years Melo will be gone, NO, he's retiring a Knick so will Chandler/JR/Novak/Shumpert/Stoudemire/Felton(maybe)

this is our core deal with it