fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

amare was doing well with the team we had before, I think we needed an upgrade at PG and another get your hands dirty guy to play with him. I would have been much happier with an upgrade of a PG like andre miller and a guy like chuck hayes to do the dirty work on the board, heck give me carl landry and put amare back at center.... I think we would be much better than we are now with just those two moves..

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:you counted games that weren't due to injury.

you are really reaching now lol. bereavement leave? that's some kind of weak sauce but okay i got him at 14 days off and 7 games. that brings it up almost another game per season to almost 69. makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't it? and he still made 1.35 million during that period. torrie smith plays football for the ravens the same day his brother dies ans excels.

Why bring up pay? Everyone on bereavement leave gets paid basically on any job.

And i didn't mention just that, i also mentioned the year he was suspended for the brawl against us.

Basically all you did was cut and paste and really is talking out of your rear.

But why isn't gallo's rookie year counted? he misses considerable amount of time EVERY YEAR due to injury.

I guess that's the built in excuse for why he won't advance farther than just being a role player.

why are you using gallo as the measuring stick as to which carmelo is to be judged by. .I thought we were getting the better end of the stick.. I thought he was supposed to transform us from a middle of the pack group into the elite.. the only thing that has happened so far is that we are barely a middle of the pack group while gallo's team is closer to joining the contenders in the west..... your focus is all in the wrong place..

DK is the one gauging GalLo, I'm only responding to it.

nothing about Denver spells contender, not a single thing.

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:you counted games that weren't due to injury.

you are really reaching now lol. bereavement leave? that's some kind of weak sauce but okay i got him at 14 days off and 7 games. that brings it up almost another game per season to almost 69. makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't it? and he still made 1.35 million during that period. torrie smith plays football for the ravens the same day his brother dies ans excels.

Why bring up pay? Everyone on bereavement leave gets paid basically on any job.

And i didn't mention just that, i also mentioned the year he was suspended for the brawl against us.

Basically all you did was cut and paste and really is talking out of your rear.

But why isn't gallo's rookie year counted? he misses considerable amount of time EVERY YEAR due to injury.

I guess that's the built in excuse for why he won't advance farther than just being a role player.

first off, i will be the first to concede that gallinari has been injury-prone and yes that might mean he will never develop as fully as many expected him to. you will have to concede that the nuggets lost a lot of ground when he was out, which speaks much to his value.

i bring up money because melo is all about money. it is what made him force the issue with the team he was on and it was the issue with the team that he wanted to go to. he could have waited but he didn't.

you want to nitpick-- bereavement, suspensions-- because melo needs nitpickers in order to build the case.

i see melo play and i see a guy who has all the talent and skill necessary to win but he just isn't smart enough to use that skill and talent. he makes too many bad decisions each and every game to help his team succeed. he's like a guy who is stuck behind a wall and is surrounded by ladders and decides to stack the ladders one on top of another to scale the wall.

people want to hitch their wagons to comparing melo to paul pierce. sorry the truth is far smarter and craftier than melo.

all i'm saying is if your counting games that have nothing to do with injury, then count gallo's game that did have something to do with injury, keep it consistent.

all players are about their money, so i see no need to even bring that up, and i can certainly understand him wanting to secure a deal going into a lockout.

and honestly the trade is done, all pieces traded have comparable pieces here now.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

Have you ever seen a player even do that?

I know folks don't like Melo, but come on, you think he'll complain in a win, better yet a streak of wins?

Well the Lakers won many times but that did not stop Kobe from pouting

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:tkf meet dk.

Can you two possibly merge? Or, are you already merged?

I personally don't care if Melo is top 5 or top 20. Contracts and player value is mostly determined by the market. What are teams willing to pay for him. For Melo, any team with the ability to get him and/or had the cap space would have jumped and would still today.

As far as Amare, the only other team willing to sign him was phx at 40 million less than we paid. Nice going Mr. Walsh.

Chandler was an FA that was not going to be resigned and Gallo probably got more than he is worth based on his market value.

The pressure is on everyone - Melo, Amare, Felton, Woody, Isiah and Chandler

yes contracts are based on what the market will bear. but what the market will bear rarely reflects cost versus value. in basketball qua basketball value is based on winning games and winning titles. if not winning then cost is based on putting asses in seats.

not every player who is being paid what the market will bear is dedicated to winning. that's the reality here.

That's arguable. Many said that Paul Pierce was not dedicated to winning and then he won. Whatever is being said about Melo was said about PP. Then PP was surrounded with the right players and these things were no longer mentioned.

Melo fought his ass off in the playoffs this year while Amare stayed home, Lin was out and Chandler laid an egg. Was that not dedicated? When Melo lost to SA and averaged 27 points and 8 rebounds on 48 percent shooting, was he not dedicating himself to winning? He had some years that he was excellent in the playoffs and some years that his pct was off. Do you remember when he did not dedicate himself to winning in the playoffs?

With MDA, he was certainly sidetracked this year and I blame him for that.

Was Wade dedicated to winning when he played without Shaq and the team was awful? Was Garnett dedicated to winning as a perennial loser in Minny (on a damn good team)?

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

Melo needs a PG or a facilitator. He is not Lebron (obviously). I would have loved to see how he would have played with Steve Nash.

once and for all time please stop this argument.. really, it is so tired... those guys are just better players.. no one questioned their will to win, for pierce it was a maturity issue, he was always known as a gym rat.. carmelo has had his conditioning and will to win questioned for years... no one questioned garnett because he put in work, and it showed, minny wasn't a winner but garnett was recognized, with awards, mvp,defensive player of the year, all nba first team... same thing with wade.. they were recognized around the league, their work ethic never questioned..

stop trying to align carmelo with guys that are out of his league.. really it makes for such a bad argument..

you say what carmelo needed was a PG, then he should have stayed his azz in denver where they had a pretty good one in andre miller!!!!!

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

NO, actually being dedicated to your craft makes you look like it.. and it also at some point will lead to winning...

There goes your tunnel vision and lack of analytical reasoning capabilities shining for all.

I never said that he was as good as Garnett or Wade (I've said numerous times that he is not), its the point of them not winning without supercasts but you are too busy pointing out the fallacies in others arguments to realize that.

Andre Miller left the Sixers during the 2006-2007 season LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL - but I am sure you knew that "He should have stayed in Denver with Andre Miller" LOL LOL LOL LOL. Nice to trade away a guy like Miller for a guy like AI.

I would have loved to see him play with a "SUPERSTAR" PG ala Nash. But you probably did not get that.

Miller was a good PG and so was Billups. Your BS will never successfully circumvent the argument of needing 2 SUPER STARS even though you sadly try to toss names like AI (40 pct for his career), Camby (Superstar?), Amare (LOL LOL LOL) ...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

2nd and 3rd team all nba is fine for me - I don't give a shyt about awards and could not care less where he ranks as a player.

You amuse me LOL LOL

eh, no biggie, I forgot miller had two stints in denver, anyway melo had billups, that I do know, and if I am not mistaken he also had a young ty lawson.. if he needed PG's he had them there, why was he trying to leave...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

debating with you is so easy.. you always put the ball on the tee...

here you go, someone with first hand experience of his work ethic.. the first 37 seconds says it all..LOL

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

in all honesty pierce doesn't belong in the same group as wade, lebron and garnett, but he is mvp of the finals and a champion.. You hang your hat on pierce because somehow it validates MR "17"...in your eyes.. but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player, and he didn't get star players in garnett and allen, those guys were past their best years, yet he was able to mesh and win with them... while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates.... not the same bro..... oh and I forgot.. Lol lol lol lol.. smdh

Garnett, Allen were passed their "best" years? You are all over the place! How do you define "best", by numbers or contribution to championships?

Garnett:

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2007-08 NBA Defensive Player of the Year

And Allen was still a great 2 and averaged over 60 pct in TS. Now I know that it is hard to compare him to Landry Fields being that Landry was in his Prime .... LOL

Ouch!

"but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player"

THIS is a great argument!

"while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates"

I think that what we know in year 3 is that the Knicks have not had anything close to the Boston squad.

Pierce is not in Wade, Lebron and Garnetts category - AGREED - and neither is Melo. However, you just pretty much stated that PP was a number two on this squad - AGREED. How nice is it to be that good and still play with a number one?? PRETTY PRETTY GOOD!

So ... maybe Melo is a number and needs to play with a number one like Lebron, Wade, Garnett or Shaq? Huh?

Talk about a fat pitch!

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

Have you ever seen a player even do that?

I know folks don't like Melo, but come on, you think he'll complain in a win, better yet a streak of wins?

Well the Lakers won many times but that did not stop Kobe from pouting

Kobe is MrKnick's barometer. If Kobe does or has done it, its ok for Melo to also. Except of course Melo doesnt win the MVPs or scoring titles, or first team all NBA, or first team defense (or 2nd team for that matter), or playoff games or.... wait... what has Melo won again? Oh yea... a gold medal. So they are pretty much the same guy.

And an NCAA championship.

I answered a question about pouting and winning - read it how ever you want. Melo ain't Kobe by any means but that is not due to offensive numbers. Kobe has a mean streak and a competitive edge that Melo will never have. But if you are gonna bash Melo for his offensive numbers ...

I know what Melo is and I never claimed that he was in the top echelon. However, Kobe ain't no MJ or Lebron. Not even close.

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

Have you ever seen a player even do that?

I know folks don't like Melo, but come on, you think he'll complain in a win, better yet a streak of wins?

Well the Lakers won many times but that did not stop Kobe from pouting

Kobe is MrKnick's barometer. If Kobe does or has done it, its ok for Melo to also. Except of course Melo doesnt win the MVPs or scoring titles, or first team all NBA, or first team defense (or 2nd team for that matter), or playoff games or.... wait... what has Melo won again? Oh yea... a gold medal. So they are pretty much the same guy.

And an NCAA championship.

I answered a question about pouting and winning - read it how ever you want. Melo ain't Kobe by any means but that is not due to offensive numbers. Kobe has a mean streak and a competitive edge that Melo will never have. But if you are gonna bash Melo for his offensive numbers ...

I know what Melo is and I never claimed that he was in the top echelon. However, Kobe ain't no MJ or Lebron. Not even close.

in this generation, kobe is probably the closest thing we had to MJ..

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:tkf meet dk.

Can you two possibly merge? Or, are you already merged?

I personally don't care if Melo is top 5 or top 20. Contracts and player value is mostly determined by the market. What are teams willing to pay for him. For Melo, any team with the ability to get him and/or had the cap space would have jumped and would still today.

As far as Amare, the only other team willing to sign him was phx at 40 million less than we paid. Nice going Mr. Walsh.

Chandler was an FA that was not going to be resigned and Gallo probably got more than he is worth based on his market value.

The pressure is on everyone - Melo, Amare, Felton, Woody, Isiah and Chandler

yes contracts are based on what the market will bear. but what the market will bear rarely reflects cost versus value. in basketball qua basketball value is based on winning games and winning titles. if not winning then cost is based on putting asses in seats.

not every player who is being paid what the market will bear is dedicated to winning. that's the reality here.

That's arguable. Many said that Paul Pierce was not dedicated to winning and then he won. Whatever is being said about Melo was said about PP. Then PP was surrounded with the right players and these things were no longer mentioned.

Melo fought his ass off in the playoffs this year while Amare stayed home, Lin was out and Chandler laid an egg. Was that not dedicated? When Melo lost to SA and averaged 27 points and 8 rebounds on 48 percent shooting, was he not dedicating himself to winning? He had some years that he was excellent in the playoffs and some years that his pct was off. Do you remember when he did not dedicate himself to winning in the playoffs?

With MDA, he was certainly sidetracked this year and I blame him for that.

Was Wade dedicated to winning when he played without Shaq and the team was awful? Was Garnett dedicated to winning as a perennial loser in Minny (on a damn good team)?

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

Melo needs a PG or a facilitator. He is not Lebron (obviously). I would have loved to see how he would have played with Steve Nash.

once and for all time please stop this argument.. really, it is so tired... those guys are just better players.. no one questioned their will to win, for pierce it was a maturity issue, he was always known as a gym rat.. carmelo has had his conditioning and will to win questioned for years... no one questioned garnett because he put in work, and it showed, minny wasn't a winner but garnett was recognized, with awards, mvp,defensive player of the year, all nba first team... same thing with wade.. they were recognized around the league, their work ethic never questioned..

stop trying to align carmelo with guys that are out of his league.. really it makes for such a bad argument..

you say what carmelo needed was a PG, then he should have stayed his azz in denver where they had a pretty good one in andre miller!!!!!

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

NO, actually being dedicated to your craft makes you look like it.. and it also at some point will lead to winning...

There goes your tunnel vision and lack of analytical reasoning capabilities shining for all.

I never said that he was as good as Garnett or Wade (I've said numerous times that he is not), its the point of them not winning without supercasts but you are too busy pointing out the fallacies in others arguments to realize that.

Andre Miller left the Sixers during the 2006-2007 season LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL - but I am sure you knew that "He should have stayed in Denver with Andre Miller" LOL LOL LOL LOL. Nice to trade away a guy like Miller for a guy like AI.

I would have loved to see him play with a "SUPERSTAR" PG ala Nash. But you probably did not get that.

Miller was a good PG and so was Billups. Your BS will never successfully circumvent the argument of needing 2 SUPER STARS even though you sadly try to toss names like AI (40 pct for his career), Camby (Superstar?), Amare (LOL LOL LOL) ...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

2nd and 3rd team all nba is fine for me - I don't give a shyt about awards and could not care less where he ranks as a player.

You amuse me LOL LOL

eh, no biggie, I forgot miller had two stints in denver, anyway melo had billups, that I do know, and if I am not mistaken he also had a young ty lawson.. if he needed PG's he had them there, why was he trying to leave...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

debating with you is so easy.. you always put the ball on the tee...

here you go, someone with first hand experience of his work ethic.. the first 37 seconds says it all..LOL

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

in all honesty pierce doesn't belong in the same group as wade, lebron and garnett, but he is mvp of the finals and a champion.. You hang your hat on pierce because somehow it validates MR "17"...in your eyes.. but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player, and he didn't get star players in garnett and allen, those guys were past their best years, yet he was able to mesh and win with them... while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates.... not the same bro..... oh and I forgot.. Lol lol lol lol.. smdh

Garnett, Allen were passed their "best" years? You are all over the place! How do you define "best", by numbers or contribution to championships?

Garnett:

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2007-08 NBA Defensive Player of the Year

And Allen was still a great 2 and averaged over 60 pct in TS. Now I know that it is hard to compare him to Landry Fields being that Landry was in his Prime .... LOL

Ouch!

"but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player"

THIS is a great argument!

"while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates"

I think that what we know in year 3 is that the Knicks have not had anything close to the Boston squad.

Pierce is not in Wade, Lebron and Garnetts category - AGREED - and neither is Melo. However, you just pretty much stated that PP was a number two on this squad - AGREED. How nice is it to be that good and still play with a number one?? PRETTY PRETTY GOOD!

So ... maybe Melo is a number and needs to play with a number one like Lebron, Wade, Garnett or Shaq? Huh?

Talk about a fat pitch!

i am going to make this real simple for you... let me ask. were Allen and Garnett's best years with the celtics or previous teams.. yes, both were still good players, but not the players they were a few years prior to the trade....

this is an easy answer...

you are a typical side bar poster... and I understand, you are reaching.. and when people are drowning they grab for whatever they can.. ok, so lets play your game..

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

and that is great, it still goes to show that garnett was still a top level defensive player.. but not the overall player he was in minny.. since coming to boston he never averaged a double double, something he did pretty much every year in minny,he was also MVP while in minny.... he and ray allen were still very good players, but not the elite players you would like to make it out to be.. and the only reason, the only reason you want to pump up a 32-36 year old KG and ray allen because it in your eyes gives your argument hope that all carmelo needs is a garnett and a ray allen...

well guess what, if that is what he needs, then why is he getting paid max money? isn't that even more reason to hate this move? if carmelo needs all of those things, then why acquire him? your argument is that pierce needed elite talent as does carmelo.. well we can make that claim for a lot of guys.. which leads me to this question.. if that is the case, what makes carmelo so special.... shouldn't we have gone for the elite guys from the start and if not, just take another route? one which left you flexibility?

thanks for trying man, but again, you fail..

and that, indeed, is what is called "the heart of the matter." thanks for using iron-clad logic to make your case tkf. dress melo up any way you want to, history will show that he was only worth a try here as a free agent, and even then there would be huge chemistry issues. if dolan was interested in winning he would not have shoved walsh aside.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

I feel like Felton is a great fit with Melo and Stoudemire. Not as good as Nash of course, but better than most. He will be a great leader and great at finding these guys in their spots. We already know he can mesh well with Stoudemire, it's just a matter of meshing Melo and Stoudemire together. Felton won't score 17 ppg like he did in NY at first, but don't be surprised if he is a league leader in assists and really has a great year. I wish he was a most consistant outside shooter, but he can score which is important and keep the defense honest. As long as Melo is surrounded by guys who can score like Smith, Felton, and Stoudemire, it should be easy for him.

Melo wasn't coming here as a free agent. He was going to get his contract before the new cba so if he didn't end up a knick he would end up somewhere else at the trade deadline. As far as signing elite guys, wasn't that the plan for the summer of 2010. When Walsh/D'Ant struck out on the goal they scrambled and grabbed Stat. Who do you think they should have signed? If I follow what I interpet your definition of elite to be, the elite were either not free agents or turned down the Knicks. I am wondering what available 'elite' guy you think the Knicks dropped the ball on.

i think you are quoting the wrong post. if melo was not coming here as a free agent then you say "fine, good luck in any future endeavor." the only reason he is here is because of dolan.

once the knicks resorted to signing a free agent not named lebron, they needed to go the team-building route and patiently build a team that suited the max money acquisition and the head coach. that is how you build: you let the gm work with the coach to find the most logical and beneficial fit for his system and the most expensive player. the most logical and beneficial fit would be to acquire a pick and roll point guard better than ray felton. that's why felton got two years and a cheap contract-- if he didn't pan out the knicks could have upgraded at the point guard position.

melo forced his way here, enabled by dolan, displacing three decent young pieces and felton, displacing stoudemire, displacing fields, displacing the coach. melo doin' work! dolan meanwhile managed to displace his own, commissioner stern-mandated gm.

put another way the knicks were already far enough along in rebuilding. 28-26 was a respectable record given the sub-par point guard play. they did not need to tear down the team and start a rebuild again, which is essentially what the trade was.

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

Have you ever seen a player even do that?

I know folks don't like Melo, but come on, you think he'll complain in a win, better yet a streak of wins?

Well the Lakers won many times but that did not stop Kobe from pouting

Kobe is MrKnick's barometer. If Kobe does or has done it, its ok for Melo to also. Except of course Melo doesnt win the MVPs or scoring titles, or first team all NBA, or first team defense (or 2nd team for that matter), or playoff games or.... wait... what has Melo won again? Oh yea... a gold medal. So they are pretty much the same guy.

And an NCAA championship.

I answered a question about pouting and winning - read it how ever you want. Melo ain't Kobe by any means but that is not due to offensive numbers. Kobe has a mean streak and a competitive edge that Melo will never have. But if you are gonna bash Melo for his offensive numbers ...

I know what Melo is and I never claimed that he was in the top echelon. However, Kobe ain't no MJ or Lebron. Not even close.

in this generation, kobe is probably the closest thing we had to MJ..

Better than Lebron? REALLY??????????? Why do I even bother to argue with you - what a waste! Yet I still do - I blame myself!

Kobe who aside from defense does everything that you hate - so comical!

Unless you have no barometer and/or have no idea what you spew.