tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

I'm sorry TKF, the correct answer was "Who are the mostly inconsequential players who were traded for one of the best scorers in NBA history".

I want to thank you for playing, but you're not going empty handed. You are taking home a month supply of Rice a Roni, the San Francisco treat, a gift certificate from Botany 500, and a version of our home game! Thanks for playing.

more propaganda... LOL in order for carmelo to crack the top 20 all time he is going to need to score another 8k plus points, let me ask, do you think as he gets older he is going to score more, or less points.... I think it is safe to assume less points... to crack the top 10 he will need to score damn near 12k points.. LOL.. good luck... therefore how in the heck can he be considered one of the best scorers in NBA history, unless one of the best for you means top 30? right now carmelo is at 95...

I guess this goes along the lines as "best pures scorer" and the guy has never won a scoring title and finished second only once.....

only knick fans make greatness where it never existed.....

I'm talking about his ability to light up the scoreboard in short order. When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him. I've heard guys like Magic and other HOFers refer to Melo that way. If he does play the way you want him to and exceeds your expectations of him will you admit it?

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

TKF, True or False. Will Danillo Gallinari make an all star team? Will Wilson Chandler? Will Mozgov? Are any of them going to compete for a Championship anytime soon?

Those are more important questions. If you answered No(unbiasedley), then move on nothing to see here, the trade was fair. The only gripe I've had with the Melo trade will be the draft picks involved.

IRRELEVANT.. and you know what, I will play this game, lets say not only will none of them every make it, but all of them will be the worst players in the NBA.. how is that.. Now that we have gotten past you trying to sidebar.... I still think with them on denver, they will be better than us, as they have been since they have gotten there.. so with that said.. what does that say about melo and how potentially bad this trade may be?

Those are more important questions.

hell no it isn't.... the key was for us not to get the so called " better player" and lose, it was supposed to make us better.. right? so far we aren't... why? that is the most important question.. chuck....

I believe the trade worked out for both teams. Denver is in position to be competitive(not necessarily compete for a Championship but perhaps put a 1st rd scare into a better team) and the Knicks are positioned to go all in for these next crucial 3 years. Why don't you let your hatred and bias for one guy go and be a fan of the team for once and enjoy the ride. Our 3 key players are in their primes right now, and barring major injuries, could be a long, fun playoff run.

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

TKF, True or False. Will Danillo Gallinari make an all star team? Will Wilson Chandler? Will Mozgov? Are any of them going to compete for a Championship anytime soon?

Those are more important questions. If you answered No(unbiasedley), then move on nothing to see here, the trade was fair. The only gripe I've had with the Melo trade will be the draft picks involved.

IRRELEVANT.. and you know what, I will play this game, lets say not only will none of them every make it, but all of them will be the worst players in the NBA.. how is that.. Now that we have gotten past you trying to sidebar.... I still think with them on denver, they will be better than us, as they have been since they have gotten there.. so with that said.. what does that say about melo and how potentially bad this trade may be?

Those are more important questions.

hell no it isn't.... the key was for us not to get the so called " better player" and lose, it was supposed to make us better.. right? so far we aren't... why? that is the most important question.. chuck....

I believe the trade worked out for both teams. Denver is in position to be competitive(not necessarily compete for a Championship but perhaps put a 1st rd scare into a better team) and the Knicks are positioned to go all in for these next crucial 3 years. Why don't you let your hatred and bias for one guy go and be a fan of the team for once and enjoy the ride. Our 3 key players are in their primes right now, and barring major injuries, could be a long, fun playoff run.

that is fair chuck, but I will say I just don't have faith in dolan, Isiah and how they have empowered melo.. there is no direct evidence but there is indirect evidence, that carmelo and JR made lin feel less than comfortable here, Lin is a guy we really needed, carmelo quit on the team and the coach.. once a quitter, always a quitter.... this so called 3 year run, is fools gold... who are we fooling here chuck.. I am still a fan, I will root for amare, I like kidd, chandler, shump, but I refuse chuck, refuse to root for that virus called carmelo... He is selfish, he is a prick,and honestly just not that good to mortgage the future of this team for.. I put him and dolan in the same boat and I can sink it... sorry bro... having to watch him on my team irks me, and the fact that we are no better since the day we made the trade irks me more.. but I will sit back and watch, maybe not as much, I think there are some other teams I will watch as well, Denver, Houston, LA..... etc.. I am a nba fan.. but honestly bro, the past couple of years have tested my 35+ years as a fan, and real talk, i am on the brink of just walking away... I can't root for douchebag losers, clowns, low IQ morons.... I just can't...

real quick.. I am not sure if you remember when the knicks had JR reid.. there was a game when he got mad at AC green, reared his elbow back and busted green in the mouth, knocking out a few of his teeth, the cheapest of cheap shots.... I hated jr reid for that and I could not root for him on my team....He was one of those bums on a short deal so I didn't have to see him the next year or so, but I have standards.... if carmelo deal ended next year, I probably could tolerate this situation a bit more..

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

TKF, True or False. Will Danillo Gallinari make an all star team? Will Wilson Chandler? Will Mozgov? Are any of them going to compete for a Championship anytime soon?

Those are more important questions. If you answered No(unbiasedley), then move on nothing to see here, the trade was fair. The only gripe I've had with the Melo trade will be the draft picks involved.

IRRELEVANT.. and you know what, I will play this game, lets say not only will none of them every make it, but all of them will be the worst players in the NBA.. how is that.. Now that we have gotten past you trying to sidebar.... I still think with them on denver, they will be better than us, as they have been since they have gotten there.. so with that said.. what does that say about melo and how potentially bad this trade may be?

Those are more important questions.

hell no it isn't.... the key was for us not to get the so called " better player" and lose, it was supposed to make us better.. right? so far we aren't... why? that is the most important question.. chuck....

I believe the trade worked out for both teams. Denver is in position to be competitive(not necessarily compete for a Championship but perhaps put a 1st rd scare into a better team) and the Knicks are positioned to go all in for these next crucial 3 years. Why don't you let your hatred and bias for one guy go and be a fan of the team for once and enjoy the ride. Our 3 key players are in their primes right now, and barring major injuries, could be a long, fun playoff run.

that is fair chuck, but I will say I just don't have faith in dolan, Isiah and how they have empowered melo.. there is no direct evidence but there is indirect evidence, that carmelo and JR made lin feel less than comfortable here, Lin is a guy we really needed, carmelo quit on the team and the coach.. once a quitter, always a quitter.... this so called 3 year run, is fools gold... who are we fooling here chuck.. I am still a fan, I will root for amare, I like kidd, chandler, shump, but I refuse chuck, refuse to root for that virus called carmelo... He is selfish, he is a prick,and honestly just not that good to mortgage the future of this team for.. I put him and dolan in the same boat and I can sink it... sorry bro... having to watch him on my team irks me, and the fact that we are no better since the day we made the trade irks me more.. but I will sit back and watch, maybe not as much, I think there are some other teams I will watch as well, Denver, Houston, LA..... etc.. I am a nba fan.. but honestly bro, the past couple of years have tested my 35+ years as a fan, and real talk, i am on the brink of just walking away... I can't root for douchebag losers, clowns, low IQ morons.... I just can't...

real quick.. I am not sure if you remember when the knicks had JR reid.. there was a game when he got mad at AC green, reared his elbow back and busted green in the mouth, knocking out a few of his teeth, the cheapest of cheap shots.... I hated jr reid for that and I could not root for him on my team....He was one of those bums on a short deal so I didn't have to see him the next year or so, but I have standards.... if carmelo deal ended next year, I probably could tolerate this situation a bit more..

Fair enough, tkf. Perhaps if we win enough games, the "loser" "cancerous" and "low iq" stigmas will lessen for many fans. Winning is the cure all balm. The sight of Alex Rodriguez "centaur" painting, or him staring in the mirror gazing into his own eyes, or video of him getting fed popcorn by Cameron Diaz are enough to make me vomit. And that's not even counting his terrible playoff performances. Even with all that, I was able to root for the Yankees and just rule him as a just another cog to "the team"(overpaid as he may be). I hope you see the correlation to Melo here. Supreme talent, not so great performances in the playoffs past, but if "the team" along with Melo perform up to snuff, than for the Knicks and us fans, it can be a wonderful thing.

yea, A-rod is a character.. LOL... one thing with A-rod and I know it is a different situation he came to a team that had won many rings, and already had leaders in jeter.. A-rod seemed to just be one of the guys and that was cool. he came in won two MVp's with the yankees and was huge in that 2009 ws run in which we won a ring... So although A-rod does make a lot of people sick, including me at times.. LOL.. he came in, didn't try to impose his will, was one of the guys, produced, won, and pretty much kept quiet.. although his little opt out stint pissed me off!!! haha

I am going to sit back and watch this group, but understand that a second round appearance isn't good enough, I think we were well on that course before the trade, expectations should be finals... and if not, this was a failure, but again, I will sit back and watch and if we win, that is the ultimate way to shut up fans like me.. in the meantime I am still going to bitch and moan a bit, I mean jeez who else is going to keep you knuckle heads on your toes.....

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

TKF, True or False. Will Danillo Gallinari make an all star team? Will Wilson Chandler? Will Mozgov? Are any of them going to compete for a Championship anytime soon?

Those are more important questions. If you answered No(unbiasedley), then move on nothing to see here, the trade was fair. The only gripe I've had with the Melo trade will be the draft picks involved.

IRRELEVANT.. and you know what, I will play this game, lets say not only will none of them every make it, but all of them will be the worst players in the NBA.. how is that.. Now that we have gotten past you trying to sidebar.... I still think with them on denver, they will be better than us, as they have been since they have gotten there.. so with that said.. what does that say about melo and how potentially bad this trade may be?

Those are more important questions.

hell no it isn't.... the key was for us not to get the so called " better player" and lose, it was supposed to make us better.. right? so far we aren't... why? that is the most important question.. chuck....

I believe the trade worked out for both teams. Denver is in position to be competitive(not necessarily compete for a Championship but perhaps put a 1st rd scare into a better team) and the Knicks are positioned to go all in for these next crucial 3 years. Why don't you let your hatred and bias for one guy go and be a fan of the team for once and enjoy the ride. Our 3 key players are in their primes right now, and barring major injuries, could be a long, fun playoff run.

that is fair chuck, but I will say I just don't have faith in dolan, Isiah and how they have empowered melo.. there is no direct evidence but there is indirect evidence, that carmelo and JR made lin feel less than comfortable here, Lin is a guy we really needed, carmelo quit on the team and the coach.. once a quitter, always a quitter.... this so called 3 year run, is fools gold... who are we fooling here chuck.. I am still a fan, I will root for amare, I like kidd, chandler, shump, but I refuse chuck, refuse to root for that virus called carmelo... He is selfish, he is a prick,and honestly just not that good to mortgage the future of this team for.. I put him and dolan in the same boat and I can sink it... sorry bro... having to watch him on my team irks me, and the fact that we are no better since the day we made the trade irks me more.. but I will sit back and watch, maybe not as much, I think there are some other teams I will watch as well, Denver, Houston, LA..... etc.. I am a nba fan.. but honestly bro, the past couple of years have tested my 35+ years as a fan, and real talk, i am on the brink of just walking away... I can't root for douchebag losers, clowns, low IQ morons.... I just can't...

real quick.. I am not sure if you remember when the knicks had JR reid.. there was a game when he got mad at AC green, reared his elbow back and busted green in the mouth, knocking out a few of his teeth, the cheapest of cheap shots.... I hated jr reid for that and I could not root for him on my team....He was one of those bums on a short deal so I didn't have to see him the next year or so, but I have standards.... if carmelo deal ended next year, I probably could tolerate this situation a bit more..

Fair enough, tkf. Perhaps if we win enough games, the "loser" "cancerous" and "low iq" stigmas will lessen for many fans. Winning is the cure all balm. The sight of Alex Rodriguez "centaur" painting, or him staring in the mirror gazing into his own eyes, or video of him getting fed popcorn by Cameron Diaz are enough to make me vomit. And that's not even counting his terrible playoff performances. Even with all that, I was able to root for the Yankees and just rule him as a just another cog to "the team"(overpaid as he may be). I hope you see the correlation to Melo here. Supreme talent, not so great performances in the playoffs past, but if "the team" along with Melo perform up to snuff, than for the Knicks and us fans, it can be a wonderful thing.

yea, A-rod is a character.. LOL... one thing with A-rod and I know it is a different situation he came to a team that had won many rings, and already had leaders in jeter.. A-rod seemed to just be one of the guys and that was cool. he came in won two MVp's with the yankees and was huge in that 2009 ws run in which we won a ring... So although A-rod does make a lot of people sick, including me at times.. LOL.. he came in, didn't try to impose his will, was one of the guys, produced, won, and pretty much kept quiet.. although his little opt out stint pissed me off!!! haha

I am going to sit back and watch this group, but understand that a second round appearance isn't good enough, I think we were well on that course before the trade, expectations should be finals... and if not, this was a failure, but again, I will sit back and watch and if we win, that is the ultimate way to shut up fans like me.. in the meantime I am still going to bitch and moan a bit, I mean jeez who else is going to keep you knuckle heads on your toes.....

Keep on doing you in this forum. There is no Yin without a Yang.

There's no Lin, that's for sure!

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

I'm sorry TKF, the correct answer was "Who are the mostly inconsequential players who were traded for one of the best scorers in NBA history".

I want to thank you for playing, but you're not going empty handed. You are taking home a month supply of Rice a Roni, the San Francisco treat, a gift certificate from Botany 500, and a version of our home game! Thanks for playing.

more propaganda... LOL in order for carmelo to crack the top 20 all time he is going to need to score another 8k plus points, let me ask, do you think as he gets older he is going to score more, or less points.... I think it is safe to assume less points... to crack the top 10 he will need to score damn near 12k points.. LOL.. good luck... therefore how in the heck can he be considered one of the best scorers in NBA history, unless one of the best for you means top 30? right now carmelo is at 95...

I guess this goes along the lines as "best pures scorer" and the guy has never won a scoring title and finished second only once.....

only knick fans make greatness where it never existed.....

I'm talking about his ability to light up the scoreboard in short order. When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him. I've heard guys like Magic and other HOFers refer to Melo that way. If he does play the way you want him to and exceeds your expectations of him will you admit it?

ok, so he is a very good streaky scorer.. listen no one called the guy a scrub, I just don't think as a "ball player" he is anywhere close to what many believe and there is pretty much a good amount of proof to back that up, if you are intent on not making excuses...

this league was full of great scorers, the problem is, carmelo is not so much a GREAT scorer, there is really no proof of that whatsoever.. now we can make that argument for guys like durant at this point, but carmelo has shown that he can be a GREAT streak scorer, one of the better STREAK players... his career 45% shooting, and the fact that he never won a scoring title, never averaged over 30ppg and only finished second once pretty much backs that up..

When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him.

but come on, that can be said for a lot of players.... can you stop joe johnson when he gets on a roll? heck we all have witnessed jamal crawford 25 straight points vs the heat when he was with the knicks, there are a lot of players in the history of this game that can get rolling and not be stopped... most of them were never really GREAT players... too much emphasis on scoring... all I ask you, how is that helping us, or any team he has been on when it comes to contending.. it hasn't so far... that is all I am saying... It doesn't make for a good argument...

Melo's ability to score it in a variety of ways is also what sets him apart from most. As a jump shooter, as a post player, off the dribble, you name it. I'm surprised that you don't see that. Crawford was a great scorer but he was in a class by himself in taking ill advised shots and he couldn't post up like Melo can. Its that versatility which makes him so rare.

I'm not a poster who doesn't see Melo's flaws and I've pointed them out, so this isn't homerism. If you're going to point out the Knicks track record since he joined and leave out all the other factors like the roster, coaching, injuries etc you aren't being an honest broker. Not to metion that you haven't answered my question about this season. If Melo does play hard on both ends of the court, is instrumental in the Knicks contending, will you admit it?

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

I'm sorry TKF, the correct answer was "Who are the mostly inconsequential players who were traded for one of the best scorers in NBA history".

I want to thank you for playing, but you're not going empty handed. You are taking home a month supply of Rice a Roni, the San Francisco treat, a gift certificate from Botany 500, and a version of our home game! Thanks for playing.

more propaganda... LOL in order for carmelo to crack the top 20 all time he is going to need to score another 8k plus points, let me ask, do you think as he gets older he is going to score more, or less points.... I think it is safe to assume less points... to crack the top 10 he will need to score damn near 12k points.. LOL.. good luck... therefore how in the heck can he be considered one of the best scorers in NBA history, unless one of the best for you means top 30? right now carmelo is at 95...

I guess this goes along the lines as "best pures scorer" and the guy has never won a scoring title and finished second only once.....

only knick fans make greatness where it never existed.....

I'm talking about his ability to light up the scoreboard in short order. When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him. I've heard guys like Magic and other HOFers refer to Melo that way. If he does play the way you want him to and exceeds your expectations of him will you admit it?

ok, so he is a very good streaky scorer.. listen no one called the guy a scrub, I just don't think as a "ball player" he is anywhere close to what many believe and there is pretty much a good amount of proof to back that up, if you are intent on not making excuses...

this league was full of great scorers, the problem is, carmelo is not so much a GREAT scorer, there is really no proof of that whatsoever.. now we can make that argument for guys like durant at this point, but carmelo has shown that he can be a GREAT streak scorer, one of the better STREAK players... his career 45% shooting, and the fact that he never won a scoring title, never averaged over 30ppg and only finished second once pretty much backs that up..

When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him.

but come on, that can be said for a lot of players.... can you stop joe johnson when he gets on a roll? heck we all have witnessed jamal crawford 25 straight points vs the heat when he was with the knicks, there are a lot of players in the history of this game that can get rolling and not be stopped... most of them were never really GREAT players... too much emphasis on scoring... all I ask you, how is that helping us, or any team he has been on when it comes to contending.. it hasn't so far... that is all I am saying... It doesn't make for a good argument...

Melo's ability to score it in a variety of ways is also what sets him apart from most. As a jump shooter, as a post player, off the dribble, you name it. I'm surprised that you don't see that. Crawford was a great scorer but he was in a class by himself in taking ill advised shots and he couldn't post up like Melo can. Its that versatility which makes him so rare.

I'm not a poster who doesn't see Melo's flaws and I've pointed them out, so this isn't homerism. If you're going to point out the Knicks track record since he joined and leave out all the other factors like the roster, coaching, injuries etc you aren't being an honest broker. Not to metion that you haven't answered my question about this season. If Melo does play hard on both ends of the court, is instrumental in the Knicks contending, will you admit it?

WELL NOT really, because most of those come from Iso's, you have other players that can score coming off the ball.... Joe johnson can score off the dribble better than carmelo, he also has a variety of shots and moves.... Durant can just score, he can do so off the dribble, off curls, screens from deep.. lebron can score from many areas, wade, Rose, Westbrook, all of them can score multiple ways...

carmelo's scoring may set him apart from the likes of nick young, Jamison, iggy, etc.. but as the talent increases, it doesn't seperate carmelo from any of them, actually it doesn't even put them on their level...

I am not sure why posting up gives carmelo the advantage in this case, I am sure it has it's advantages, but so does moving without the ball, something he doesn't do... carmelo really is no better a scorer than vince carter was in his prime, T-mac, AI, I mean,lets keep it real...

if that was such a big seperating factor between melo and the rest then we wouldn't be talking about him not being able to get past the lakers and spurs, or not having a lebron or shaq.. melo had good players and his "scoring" wasn't enough of a factor to make his team a contender... it really doesn't seperate him from most.....it actually is a common bond he shares with a lot of guys like him, that just were not well rounded enough to lead a team and should have never had a team built around them...

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

As far as Durant, LeBron, and T-Mac (maybe) we are talking about future hofers here. They all are some of the best scorers in NBA history as well. Lebron only recently showed a post game, still a great player and versatile as well.

Who Melo had to go through played a big part in in his lack of success in the playoffs. Its not "real" to say that Melo is solely to blame for not getting by one of the best one-two punches in NBA history, and next to Wilt, Shaq is the most dominant center ever. Duncan had Robinson for one title, and look who else Duncan had with him, can you really compare them to Melo's supporting cast?

And you still won't answer my question....

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

I'm sorry TKF, the correct answer was "Who are the mostly inconsequential players who were traded for one of the best scorers in NBA history".

I want to thank you for playing, but you're not going empty handed. You are taking home a month supply of Rice a Roni, the San Francisco treat, a gift certificate from Botany 500, and a version of our home game! Thanks for playing.

more propaganda... LOL in order for carmelo to crack the top 20 all time he is going to need to score another 8k plus points, let me ask, do you think as he gets older he is going to score more, or less points.... I think it is safe to assume less points... to crack the top 10 he will need to score damn near 12k points.. LOL.. good luck... therefore how in the heck can he be considered one of the best scorers in NBA history, unless one of the best for you means top 30? right now carmelo is at 95...

I guess this goes along the lines as "best pures scorer" and the guy has never won a scoring title and finished second only once.....

only knick fans make greatness where it never existed.....

I'm talking about his ability to light up the scoreboard in short order. When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him. I've heard guys like Magic and other HOFers refer to Melo that way. If he does play the way you want him to and exceeds your expectations of him will you admit it?

ok, so he is a very good streaky scorer.. listen no one called the guy a scrub, I just don't think as a "ball player" he is anywhere close to what many believe and there is pretty much a good amount of proof to back that up, if you are intent on not making excuses...

this league was full of great scorers, the problem is, carmelo is not so much a GREAT scorer, there is really no proof of that whatsoever.. now we can make that argument for guys like durant at this point, but carmelo has shown that he can be a GREAT streak scorer, one of the better STREAK players... his career 45% shooting, and the fact that he never won a scoring title, never averaged over 30ppg and only finished second once pretty much backs that up..

When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him.

but come on, that can be said for a lot of players.... can you stop joe johnson when he gets on a roll? heck we all have witnessed jamal crawford 25 straight points vs the heat when he was with the knicks, there are a lot of players in the history of this game that can get rolling and not be stopped... most of them were never really GREAT players... too much emphasis on scoring... all I ask you, how is that helping us, or any team he has been on when it comes to contending.. it hasn't so far... that is all I am saying... It doesn't make for a good argument...

Melo's ability to score it in a variety of ways is also what sets him apart from most. As a jump shooter, as a post player, off the dribble, you name it. I'm surprised that you don't see that. Crawford was a great scorer but he was in a class by himself in taking ill advised shots and he couldn't post up like Melo can. Its that versatility which makes him so rare.

I'm not a poster who doesn't see Melo's flaws and I've pointed them out, so this isn't homerism. If you're going to point out the Knicks track record since he joined and leave out all the other factors like the roster, coaching, injuries etc you aren't being an honest broker. Not to metion that you haven't answered my question about this season. If Melo does play hard on both ends of the court, is instrumental in the Knicks contending, will you admit it?

WELL NOT really, because most of those come from Iso's, you have other players that can score coming off the ball.... Joe johnson can score off the dribble better than carmelo, he also has a variety of shots and moves.... Durant can just score, he can do so off the dribble, off curls, screens from deep.. lebron can score from many areas, wade, Rose, Westbrook, all of them can score multiple ways...

carmelo's scoring may set him apart from the likes of nick young, Jamison, iggy, etc.. but as the talent increases, it doesn't seperate carmelo from any of them, actually it doesn't even put them on their level...

I am not sure why posting up gives carmelo the advantage in this case, I am sure it has it's advantages, but so does moving without the ball, something he doesn't do... carmelo really is no better a scorer than vince carter was in his prime, T-mac, AI, I mean,lets keep it real...

if that was such a big seperating factor between melo and the rest then we wouldn't be talking about him not being able to get past the lakers and spurs, or not having a lebron or shaq.. melo had good players and his "scoring" wasn't enough of a factor to make his team a contender... it really doesn't seperate him from most.....it actually is a common bond he shares with a lot of guys like him, that just were not well rounded enough to lead a team and should have never had a team built around them...

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

As far as Durant, LeBron, and T-Mac (maybe) we are talking about future hofers here. They all are some of the best scorers in NBA history as well. Lebron only recently showed a post game, still a great player and versatile as well.

Who Melo had to go through played a big part in in his lack of success in the playoffs. Its not "real" to say that Melo is solely to blame for not getting by one of the best one-two punches in NBA history, and next to Wilt, Shaq is the most dominant center ever. Duncan had Robinson for one title, and look who else Duncan had with him, can you really compare them to Melo's supporting cast?

And you still won't answer my question....

ok, this is tiring, I will let you chalk up carmelo's first round exits to not being able to beat the elite players in shaq, duncan, kobe etc.. Ok.. that is fine... He just can't beat those guys... but you do know he also lost to the clippers, minny and utah as well, and in the other series vs the lakers and spurs just obliterated....

so let me ask you.. what will change now.. he still has to face garnett, wade and lebron?

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

what does it matter that they don't post up bigger guys... does it matter that they score in different ways as well... you do understand that carmelo has never made first team all nba, has never won a scoring title, no MVP,s so I ask, how does posting up seperate him from these guys.. it doesn't... If carmelo's scoring was such a seperating factor then why hasn't the league recognized this with any MVP's..why doesn't he have any scoring titles.. I mean we are talking about SEPERATING yourself.. right?

And you still won't answer my question...

what question?

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

I'm sorry TKF, the correct answer was "Who are the mostly inconsequential players who were traded for one of the best scorers in NBA history".

I want to thank you for playing, but you're not going empty handed. You are taking home a month supply of Rice a Roni, the San Francisco treat, a gift certificate from Botany 500, and a version of our home game! Thanks for playing.

more propaganda... LOL in order for carmelo to crack the top 20 all time he is going to need to score another 8k plus points, let me ask, do you think as he gets older he is going to score more, or less points.... I think it is safe to assume less points... to crack the top 10 he will need to score damn near 12k points.. LOL.. good luck... therefore how in the heck can he be considered one of the best scorers in NBA history, unless one of the best for you means top 30? right now carmelo is at 95...

I guess this goes along the lines as "best pures scorer" and the guy has never won a scoring title and finished second only once.....

only knick fans make greatness where it never existed.....

I'm talking about his ability to light up the scoreboard in short order. When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him. I've heard guys like Magic and other HOFers refer to Melo that way. If he does play the way you want him to and exceeds your expectations of him will you admit it?

ok, so he is a very good streaky scorer.. listen no one called the guy a scrub, I just don't think as a "ball player" he is anywhere close to what many believe and there is pretty much a good amount of proof to back that up, if you are intent on not making excuses...

this league was full of great scorers, the problem is, carmelo is not so much a GREAT scorer, there is really no proof of that whatsoever.. now we can make that argument for guys like durant at this point, but carmelo has shown that he can be a GREAT streak scorer, one of the better STREAK players... his career 45% shooting, and the fact that he never won a scoring title, never averaged over 30ppg and only finished second once pretty much backs that up..

When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him.

but come on, that can be said for a lot of players.... can you stop joe johnson when he gets on a roll? heck we all have witnessed jamal crawford 25 straight points vs the heat when he was with the knicks, there are a lot of players in the history of this game that can get rolling and not be stopped... most of them were never really GREAT players... too much emphasis on scoring... all I ask you, how is that helping us, or any team he has been on when it comes to contending.. it hasn't so far... that is all I am saying... It doesn't make for a good argument...

Melo's ability to score it in a variety of ways is also what sets him apart from most. As a jump shooter, as a post player, off the dribble, you name it. I'm surprised that you don't see that. Crawford was a great scorer but he was in a class by himself in taking ill advised shots and he couldn't post up like Melo can. Its that versatility which makes him so rare.

I'm not a poster who doesn't see Melo's flaws and I've pointed them out, so this isn't homerism. If you're going to point out the Knicks track record since he joined and leave out all the other factors like the roster, coaching, injuries etc you aren't being an honest broker. Not to metion that you haven't answered my question about this season. If Melo does play hard on both ends of the court, is instrumental in the Knicks contending, will you admit it?

WELL NOT really, because most of those come from Iso's, you have other players that can score coming off the ball.... Joe johnson can score off the dribble better than carmelo, he also has a variety of shots and moves.... Durant can just score, he can do so off the dribble, off curls, screens from deep.. lebron can score from many areas, wade, Rose, Westbrook, all of them can score multiple ways...

carmelo's scoring may set him apart from the likes of nick young, Jamison, iggy, etc.. but as the talent increases, it doesn't seperate carmelo from any of them, actually it doesn't even put them on their level...

I am not sure why posting up gives carmelo the advantage in this case, I am sure it has it's advantages, but so does moving without the ball, something he doesn't do... carmelo really is no better a scorer than vince carter was in his prime, T-mac, AI, I mean,lets keep it real...

if that was such a big seperating factor between melo and the rest then we wouldn't be talking about him not being able to get past the lakers and spurs, or not having a lebron or shaq.. melo had good players and his "scoring" wasn't enough of a factor to make his team a contender... it really doesn't seperate him from most.....it actually is a common bond he shares with a lot of guys like him, that just were not well rounded enough to lead a team and should have never had a team built around them...

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

As far as Durant, LeBron, and T-Mac (maybe) we are talking about future hofers here. They all are some of the best scorers in NBA history as well. Lebron only recently showed a post game, still a great player and versatile as well.

Who Melo had to go through played a big part in in his lack of success in the playoffs. Its not "real" to say that Melo is solely to blame for not getting by one of the best one-two punches in NBA history, and next to Wilt, Shaq is the most dominant center ever. Duncan had Robinson for one title, and look who else Duncan had with him, can you really compare them to Melo's supporting cast?

And you still won't answer my question....

ok, this is tiring, I will let you chalk up carmelo's first round exits to not being able to beat the elite players in shaq, duncan, kobe etc.. Ok.. that is fine... He just can't beat those guys... but you do know he also lost to the clippers, minny and utah as well, and in the other series vs the lakers and spurs just obliterated....

so let me ask you.. what will change now.. he still has to face garnett, wade and lebron?

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

what does it matter that they don't post up bigger guys... does it matter that they score in different ways as well... you do understand that carmelo has never made first team all nba, has never won a scoring title, no MVP,s so I ask, how does posting up seperate him from these guys.. it doesn't... If carmelo's scoring was such a seperating factor then why hasn't the league recognized this with any MVP's..why doesn't he have any scoring titles.. I mean we are talking about SEPERATING yourself.. right?

And you still won't answer my question...

what question?

Only seeing the bad in a player can be tiring, understandable. What does it matter? It means that he can score on big or small men in a variety of ways. Its saying Melo can do things few other players can do. The reason he hasn't won an MVP are because of his flaws which I have acknowledged. Most MVP winners are two way players, Melo hasn't been. But we aren't talking about defense here are we?

Who has won the scoring title? Durant, Wade, Kobe, Iverson. Does that mean that Wade, Kobe, or Iverson aren't great scorers the years they didn't win? We are talking about 4 players, its a much bigger league than that. Larry Bird never won a scoring title, I guess he wasn't a great scorer.

My question for the last time is if he exceeds your expectations, will you admit it? Shouldn't be so hard to answer.

well that is the point. .don't use carmelo "the best pure scorer" to defend your argument and then tell me, that he isn't the only great scorer to never win... No kidding, this is why I felt the trade was not worth it..

Who has won the scoring title? Durant, Wade, Kobe, Iverson. Does that mean that Wade, Kobe, or Iverson aren't great scorers the years they didn't win?

No, but see the difference, no one is defending these guys using scoring as their main attribute(but if we did, there is evidence there to support that)... and lets keep it real, as I said before, had carmelo come in 2nd or 3rd for many years with a different guy winning the title, I could understand, that would mean he has consistently been one of if not the best scorer year in and year out... but I will play along here..

Iverson: won the scoring title 4 times!!

Tmac won it twice

kobe twice

wade and lebron won it and on several occasions came in second or third

if you want to talk elite, then we can't just talk about streak scoring or coming in second once.. that doesn't make you elite or near elite... I think we have overblown carmelo's scoring, although he is a fantastic streak scorer... so the years that those guys didn't win the scoring title, it is still validated by them consistently finishing high in the race...

Larry Bird never won a scoring title, I guess he wasn't a great scorer.

I don't think anyone will remember bird as a great scorer, that is for guys like gervin, king and english, they will remember bird as a winner and one of the greatest PLAYERS in the NBA... some of the greatest plays bird has ever made were either on defense( the steal of isaih's pass and the great pass to DJ for the game winning layup in the playoffs) or his passing( he was a great passer) and big shot making... I don't see the point at all you are trying to make with bird.. he was a good scorer.. but out of this world.. GREAT PLAYER.. but you know what, I will even say bird is a great scorer and here is why, bird scored when needed and he shot at a 50% clip, 3 times in his career he shot over 52% and this is a SF.... you can argue either way.... but no one is hyping up bird as a scorer... your only defense for melo is that " he is a great scorer" and that is pretty debatable..

My question for the last time is if he exceeds your expectations, will you admit it? Shouldn't be so hard to answer.

if he does so, there will be nothing to admit, he either does it or doesn't.. it is simple.. me admitting it or not has nothing to do with it.. but of course I will admit it.. not so sure what that is important.. Honestly I don't expect much from him, I know who he is, which is why I am more upset at him than dissapointed....

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

tkf wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:C'mon guys comparing Melo to Gallo? I believe Gallo was speaking of the mindset that any owner would have to allow a sexual harasser, a failure as an executive on pretty much every level, and someone who threw his own daughter under the bus to clear his name, to return to any organization.

I agree with him 100 percent on that but we haven't reached that point...yet. I don't agree with anyone comparing Melo to someone who has yet to prove that he is more than a borderline starter. Gallo might turn out to be something special but until he's shown that he is close to the player that Melo is, the comparisons should end. Not that it will.

And don't forget, coupled with the power of Wilson and Moz, and second round draft picks, the Nuggets as a franchise now make us look like a high school basketball team, talent-wise.

Also stay tuned to Raptorville for that first ballot HOF'er, that "pretty darned good player", Landry Fields!

Welcome to tkf world. LOL...LMAO...ROFL

Most of those guys are going to be trivia questions in a few years. I understand Melo getting some flack but not this much.

yea they will be, the question will be, who are the young players the knicks traded in which turned out to be the worst trade not only in knick history, but the NBA? you are 100% correct

I'm sorry TKF, the correct answer was "Who are the mostly inconsequential players who were traded for one of the best scorers in NBA history".

I want to thank you for playing, but you're not going empty handed. You are taking home a month supply of Rice a Roni, the San Francisco treat, a gift certificate from Botany 500, and a version of our home game! Thanks for playing.

more propaganda... LOL in order for carmelo to crack the top 20 all time he is going to need to score another 8k plus points, let me ask, do you think as he gets older he is going to score more, or less points.... I think it is safe to assume less points... to crack the top 10 he will need to score damn near 12k points.. LOL.. good luck... therefore how in the heck can he be considered one of the best scorers in NBA history, unless one of the best for you means top 30? right now carmelo is at 95...

I guess this goes along the lines as "best pures scorer" and the guy has never won a scoring title and finished second only once.....

only knick fans make greatness where it never existed.....

I'm talking about his ability to light up the scoreboard in short order. When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him. I've heard guys like Magic and other HOFers refer to Melo that way. If he does play the way you want him to and exceeds your expectations of him will you admit it?

ok, so he is a very good streaky scorer.. listen no one called the guy a scrub, I just don't think as a "ball player" he is anywhere close to what many believe and there is pretty much a good amount of proof to back that up, if you are intent on not making excuses...

this league was full of great scorers, the problem is, carmelo is not so much a GREAT scorer, there is really no proof of that whatsoever.. now we can make that argument for guys like durant at this point, but carmelo has shown that he can be a GREAT streak scorer, one of the better STREAK players... his career 45% shooting, and the fact that he never won a scoring title, never averaged over 30ppg and only finished second once pretty much backs that up..

When Melo gets on a roll few people can stop him.

but come on, that can be said for a lot of players.... can you stop joe johnson when he gets on a roll? heck we all have witnessed jamal crawford 25 straight points vs the heat when he was with the knicks, there are a lot of players in the history of this game that can get rolling and not be stopped... most of them were never really GREAT players... too much emphasis on scoring... all I ask you, how is that helping us, or any team he has been on when it comes to contending.. it hasn't so far... that is all I am saying... It doesn't make for a good argument...

Melo's ability to score it in a variety of ways is also what sets him apart from most. As a jump shooter, as a post player, off the dribble, you name it. I'm surprised that you don't see that. Crawford was a great scorer but he was in a class by himself in taking ill advised shots and he couldn't post up like Melo can. Its that versatility which makes him so rare.

I'm not a poster who doesn't see Melo's flaws and I've pointed them out, so this isn't homerism. If you're going to point out the Knicks track record since he joined and leave out all the other factors like the roster, coaching, injuries etc you aren't being an honest broker. Not to metion that you haven't answered my question about this season. If Melo does play hard on both ends of the court, is instrumental in the Knicks contending, will you admit it?

WELL NOT really, because most of those come from Iso's, you have other players that can score coming off the ball.... Joe johnson can score off the dribble better than carmelo, he also has a variety of shots and moves.... Durant can just score, he can do so off the dribble, off curls, screens from deep.. lebron can score from many areas, wade, Rose, Westbrook, all of them can score multiple ways...

carmelo's scoring may set him apart from the likes of nick young, Jamison, iggy, etc.. but as the talent increases, it doesn't seperate carmelo from any of them, actually it doesn't even put them on their level...

I am not sure why posting up gives carmelo the advantage in this case, I am sure it has it's advantages, but so does moving without the ball, something he doesn't do... carmelo really is no better a scorer than vince carter was in his prime, T-mac, AI, I mean,lets keep it real...

if that was such a big seperating factor between melo and the rest then we wouldn't be talking about him not being able to get past the lakers and spurs, or not having a lebron or shaq.. melo had good players and his "scoring" wasn't enough of a factor to make his team a contender... it really doesn't seperate him from most.....it actually is a common bond he shares with a lot of guys like him, that just were not well rounded enough to lead a team and should have never had a team built around them...

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

As far as Durant, LeBron, and T-Mac (maybe) we are talking about future hofers here. They all are some of the best scorers in NBA history as well. Lebron only recently showed a post game, still a great player and versatile as well.

Who Melo had to go through played a big part in in his lack of success in the playoffs. Its not "real" to say that Melo is solely to blame for not getting by one of the best one-two punches in NBA history, and next to Wilt, Shaq is the most dominant center ever. Duncan had Robinson for one title, and look who else Duncan had with him, can you really compare them to Melo's supporting cast?

And you still won't answer my question....

ok, this is tiring, I will let you chalk up carmelo's first round exits to not being able to beat the elite players in shaq, duncan, kobe etc.. Ok.. that is fine... He just can't beat those guys... but you do know he also lost to the clippers, minny and utah as well, and in the other series vs the lakers and spurs just obliterated....

so let me ask you.. what will change now.. he still has to face garnett, wade and lebron?

Joe Johnson and Westbrook can't post up big men the way Melo can. Yes, that's by virtue of his height but it still speaks to his versatility. He was doing it when he played PF briefly. He was doing it at close range, not just when he was doing an ISO from around the elbow.

what does it matter that they don't post up bigger guys... does it matter that they score in different ways as well... you do understand that carmelo has never made first team all nba, has never won a scoring title, no MVP,s so I ask, how does posting up seperate him from these guys.. it doesn't... If carmelo's scoring was such a seperating factor then why hasn't the league recognized this with any MVP's..why doesn't he have any scoring titles.. I mean we are talking about SEPERATING yourself.. right?

And you still won't answer my question...

what question?

Only seeing the bad in a player can be tiring, understandable. What does it matter? It means that he can score on big or small men in a variety of ways. Its saying Melo can do things few other players can do. The reason he hasn't won an MVP are because of his flaws which I have acknowledged. Most MVP winners are two way players, Melo hasn't been. But we aren't talking about defense here are we?

Who has won the scoring title? Durant, Wade, Kobe, Iverson. Does that mean that Wade, Kobe, or Iverson aren't great scorers the years they didn't win? We are talking about 4 players, its a much bigger league than that. Larry Bird never won a scoring title, I guess he wasn't a great scorer.

My question for the last time is if he exceeds your expectations, will you admit it? Shouldn't be so hard to answer.

well that is the point. .don't use carmelo "the best pure scorer" to defend your argument and then tell me, that he isn't the only great scorer to never win... No kidding, this is why I felt the trade was not worth it..

Who has won the scoring title? Durant, Wade, Kobe, Iverson. Does that mean that Wade, Kobe, or Iverson aren't great scorers the years they didn't win?

No, but see the difference, no one is defending these guys using scoring as their main attribute(but if we did, there is evidence there to support that)... and lets keep it real, as I said before, had carmelo come in 2nd or 3rd for many years with a different guy winning the title, I could understand, that would mean he has consistently been one of if not the best scorer year in and year out... but I will play along here..

Iverson: won the scoring title 4 times!!

Tmac won it twice

kobe twice

wade and lebron won it and on several occasions came in second or third

if you want to talk elite, then we can't just talk about streak scoring or coming in second once.. that doesn't make you elite or near elite... I think we have overblown carmelo's scoring, although he is a fantastic streak scorer... so the years that those guys didn't win the scoring title, it is still validated by them consistently finishing high in the race...

Larry Bird never won a scoring title, I guess he wasn't a great scorer.

I don't think anyone will remember bird as a great scorer, that is for guys like gervin, king and english, they will remember bird as a winner and one of the greatest PLAYERS in the NBA... some of the greatest plays bird has ever made were either on defense( the steal of isaih's pass and the great pass to DJ for the game winning layup in the playoffs) or his passing( he was a great passer) and big shot making... I don't see the point at all you are trying to make with bird.. he was a good scorer.. but out of this world.. GREAT PLAYER..

My question for the last time is if he exceeds your expectations, will you admit it? Shouldn't be so hard to answer.

if he does so, there will be nothing to admit, he either does it or doesn't.. it is simple.. me admitting it or not has nothing to do with it.. but of course I will admit it.. not so sure what that is important.. Honestly I don't expect much from him, I know who he is, which is why I am more upset at him than dissapointed....

I'm only referring to the time that Melo was in the league and who his competition was. I did leave out arguably one of the greatest scorers ever in LeBron who only won it once. Melo at one time was the best pure scorer in the league IMO. Not since he got here, I'm willing to concede that. How Melo is used in an offense and his supporting cast also has to do with his production. In NY SSOL is a "spread the wealth" kind of system so its not surprising that he hasn't put up the same numbers.

You'll never get me to see eye to eye on Bird not being a great scorer, watched too many games. You are once again shifting the goalposts and bringing in defense again. I believe Melo is an elite scorer talent wise but not an elite player on both sides of the court. no argument here That's not the case I'm making.

I've read more complimentary things in one sentence about a player who had one good month over the space of his career than someone who had been in the league for 8 years. That's why I asked that question. You make a great case that Melo's talent has been unfulfilled as far as where he has taken the teams he has played for but I still see the talent behind the lack of results and I hope for our sake as fans that he will finally deliver. I believe his talent is great enough that he will make us forget who he was traded for and I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens there.

as far as bird goes, I said, I have no problem calling him a great scorer simply because he shot such a great percentage, but no one really considers bird a "scorer", he was a great clutch player who could score.. using bird here just gives your carmelo argument a glimmer of hope which is why you want to stick by it.. LOL.. that is cool.. bird was great, so I won't argue that point.....

but I still see the talent behind the lack of results and I hope for our sake as fans that he will finally deliver. I believe his talent is great enough that he will make us forget who he was traded for and I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens there.

there is nothing wrong with having hope and faith... but again I ask, if the reason he came up short in the past according to most is that he didn't have a wade or lebron, how will it be any different here? and what are you expecting carmelo to deliver here? the best thing for the knicks would be for carmelo to be "one of the guys" his ego over the years never allowed that....

it is fair to say that when your best player doesn't make others around him better and does not lead by example defensively that the team will underachieve in the regular season and be exposed in the playoffs by having to play on the road. not only that but if he is not a true leader then the team will likely play down to the competition and lose to lesser teams, which should really never happen. and then finally there is the issue of devotion to fitness. no getting around that the dude has not been in supreme basketball shape for almost all of his pro career.

2004 8th seed
2005 7th seed
2006 3rd seed lost only 16 road games
2007 6th seed lost only 15 road games
2008 8th seed
2009 2nd seed 19-15 road record when he was in the lineup, played in 66 games
2010 4th seed

if carmelo was worth it he would have always helped his teams to the top 2 or 3 seeds in the conference every year.