NUPE wrote:Lin should be able to stat pad, while losing, in Hou. This means we are gonna have these Lin threads all damn year and possibly for the next few years. SMH.

Towards the end of the season, teams figured out how to play him and took the ball away a lot. He's a marked man and I can see the same happening this coming season.

infinitilov100 wrote:

NUPE wrote:Lin should be able to stat pad, while losing, in Hou. This means we are gonna have these Lin threads all damn year and possibly for the next few years. SMH.

Towards the end of the season, teams figured out how to play him and took the ball away a lot. He's a marked man and I can see the same happening this coming season.

Lin will dominate the ball in HOU and get a good amount of shot attempts up. He should be able to score around 15ish ppg and dish out at least 6 assists. His turnovers will still be absurdly high and he will still play no defense. However, the Lin-fanatics will still scream about how Dolan screwed-up for the next three to ten years.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

VCoug wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:If you are asking would I care if the Knicks decided to spend the money, no I don't, I would love to have him on the team. If you are asking why do I point out the rational for not resigning him it is because I have read a lot about it and I don't think it was an easy decision and I also don't think it was a reactionary one. I think that kind of money makes even billionaires blink and is a ridiculous sum to pay to have a guy that has only played 25 games in the nba. Resigning the guy to trade him or use the stretch provision make no sense to me. I have no ill will for Lin but I hope Moray's poison pill contracts to Lin and Asik somehow bite him in the @ss.

But why is this time different than every other time for Dolan? And do you really think that if the opportunity presents itself we won't be spending a similar amount of money on another player or combination of players?

This time is different because there is a new cba that is much more punitive and restrictive.

Right, but we're going to be over the luxury tax anyway so we're not avoiding the new restrictions by not resigning Lin.

your double negative is a little hard to follow but it does boil down to this: what Crush pointed out is correct and there are new restrictions in place and a LOT higher luxury tax formula IF Lin was resigned.

Yeah, that wasn't very clear. My point was, with or without Lin, we will be over the luxury tax.

so, just because MSG is already in debt, why try to show any further fiscal responsibility....yeah, makes perfect sense.

Who cares about fiscal responsibility when trying to win a championship? In terms of team success, fiscal responsibility matters when your team sucks and your trying to improve. When your team is, supposedly, a championship contender what is the point of saving on luxury tax? How does that help us to win? Why does it matter now when it has never mattered in the past: And MSG isn't in debt; the money spent on the Knicks is about 3% of its parent company's revenues. They easily could have afforded to pay the luxury tax on Lin and if he was even marginally effective Lin would have paid for his own contract by bringing in a ton of Chinese money.

easy for you to say when it's not effecting your pockets. Also, we are not yet a championship level team so, why put out Rondo money for a guy that hasn't earned it and, possibly isn't worth it.

It's always been easy for Dolan until it came to Lin, what was the difference this time? And if we're not a championship caliber team now then we're not going to be within the next three years. This team is what we're going to have for the foreseeable future so if we're not good enough we'll have to blow it up in three years anyway.

The difference is its a new cba. Has he ever paid any player 57 million for one year? Also there are other restrictions that go along with being that far over the cap and being a repeat offender. Remember year 3 of that contract was called a poison pill because it was exactly that.

It's not fair to say he'll be paying $57M for one player; I could just as easily say he'll be paying close to $80M for Melo or Amare or around $57M for Tyson. The luxury tax isn't for one player it's for the team as a whole. And I'm willing to bet that we'll be signing some combination of players that will make around the same amount as Lin in that 3rd year. JR Smith has a player option after this season and he's probably going to opt out and be resigned using the Early Bird Exception. We have a 1st round pick next year that should be making between $1.5M and $2M. And we'll still have our MLE available next season to sign a free agent.

The money committed to Amare and Melo was committed before the new cba so I disagree with counting that. The Knicks made those moves without knowing how restricticve and punitive the new cba would be for teams over the cap. Tyson is the only big contract the Knicks have taken on since the new cba. And I disagree about Lin not costing 57 mil. If they had him in year three that is what it would cost based on the current contracts that they already have in place.

When the money was committed doesn't matter - whether that money (that is, the player and contract) can be moved before the 2014-2015 season is what matters.

Let me ask you then, do you think it can be moved? I don't think the Knicks would be able to move Amare's deal. Walsh had to come away with something at the end of his plan and an uninsured max contract for Amare is what he got. I don't think they want to move Melo or Tyson. Also, they have to take salary back in a trade. There is a reason year three of Lin's contract balloned up and was called a poison pill.

This (below) is the situation and, yes, I do think many of these contracts can be moved

Bonn1997 wrote:3 years from now, Melo will be in his 13th season, Camby in his 20th, Chandler in his 14th, Felton in his 10th, Amare in his 13th, and Kidd in his 21st. It should have been obvious that you keep Lin and if you're worried about the luxury tax, you trade as many of those players for shorter deals as you can at some point before the 2014-2015 season.

infinitilov100 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Reason is because it was personal, not business

+10000000000000000000

and you know this how...because it was in the papers? Unless you heard it from Dolan or, your a mind reader, you don't know what your talking about. Like I said before, lots of telepaths posting here.

because people are judge on there past not there future (in most cases) they said they would match and they had every intentions on doing that until it became personal...

My agent tells me that the knicks are big on me and I believe they'll match anything. my agent calls the rockets and tells them, hey if your serious about retaining my client, you may have to up the $ cause your wasting your ink with that contract thats going to be match in the blink of an eye, I figure if you add a few more $ you will atleast have them 2nd guessing themselves..

The rockets lose nothing cause they can waive him in the 3rd year, trade him, or if he plays upto the potential, they have a franchise player..

it was a business move on the rockets part, and a personal decision on the knicks part..

why would the knicks commit to 3 pgs before committing to lin ?

Because they weren't going cost close to 50 mil dollars for a guy who broke down after 25 games...

I don't know about that..The guy goes from not playing at all to playing close to 40 mins 5 times a wk..with almost no rest in between time, no adjustment period..

MDA PGs during his knick tenure where breaking down after 3/4 months regardless..

fields was the only player to play 66 games on the knicks roster last season..

57.85 mil in year 3, no sign and trades, any trade has to be dollar for dollar so no relief from year three of that contract unless the knicks waive Lin and stretch the cost out over several years. Those numbers and the limited options the Knicks had after commiting to that contract are why it was ummatchable from a business prospective. I assume the commitment to 3 point guards includes Pablo's 1 year deal at 488,000. I would just take that right out of your argument. The Knicks got Pablo because they wanted him and he cost them nothing. Kidd was obtained to mentor Lin and both his and Felton's contracts are much more reasonable in my opinion.

did you ever think Joe johnson would be traded with that contract..EVERY CONTRACT in the NBA is tradable

If you are trading him in year 3, why sign him in the first place???...

because you get him for a great bargain in years 1 and 2!!!...

You are assuming he will be a great bargain at 5 mil per...He has zero track record to say this will be the case...Lin does not want to play here, if he wanted to be a Knick, he would still be a Knick...We all know this...He wants his own stage..He doesn't want to share it with Melo or Amare...Let's hope McHale run an offense for him to take 30 shots per game so he can revive Linsanity in Houston...Meanwhile we have the Heat, Boston and the rest of the hard charging East to worry about...Can't wait for the season to start....

I can't believe your saying that..this is the most humble guy on the planet, with a bunch of greedy agents who know business..How could a guy in the d-league 9 months ago want his own stage..

The stage was right here..it's alright for a pg to shoot 30 times if he has 12 dimes to go with it...and a win

Only the Nyets would have traded for Joe Johnson's contract. No one else would.

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lin didn't want to play for the Knicks...If Lin wanted to be a Knick, he would be...JR wanted to be here, Novak wanted to be here...U have guys in the NBA demanding trades to teams they wanted to play for...Lin was a restricted free agent and could have made sure he remained a Knick...You guys really think the Knicks would prefer to keep Novak and not keep Lin...

maybe had he had the support of all of his teamates and the so called "leader" of this team, he would have felt more comfortable.. doesn't help to have two teamates talk negatively about your contract...

CrushAlot wrote:

infinitilov100 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Reason is because it was personal, not business

+10000000000000000000

and you know this how...because it was in the papers? Unless you heard it from Dolan or, your a mind reader, you don't know what your talking about. Like I said before, lots of telepaths posting here.

because people are judge on there past not there future (in most cases) they said they would match and they had every intentions on doing that until it became personal...

My agent tells me that the knicks are big on me and I believe they'll match anything. my agent calls the rockets and tells them, hey if your serious about retaining my client, you may have to up the $ cause your wasting your ink with that contract thats going to be match in the blink of an eye, I figure if you add a few more $ you will atleast have them 2nd guessing themselves..

The rockets lose nothing cause they can waive him in the 3rd year, trade him, or if he plays upto the potential, they have a franchise player..

it was a business move on the rockets part, and a personal decision on the knicks part..

why would the knicks commit to 3 pgs before committing to lin ?

Because they weren't going cost close to 50 mil dollars for a guy who broke down after 25 games...

I don't know about that..The guy goes from not playing at all to playing close to 40 mins 5 times a wk..with almost no rest in between time, no adjustment period..

MDA PGs during his knick tenure where breaking down after 3/4 months regardless..

fields was the only player to play 66 games on the knicks roster last season..

57.85 mil in year 3, no sign and trades, any trade has to be dollar for dollar so no relief from year three of that contract unless the knicks waive Lin and stretch the cost out over several years. Those numbers and the limited options the Knicks had after commiting to that contract are why it was ummatchable from a business prospective. I assume the commitment to 3 point guards includes Pablo's 1 year deal at 488,000. I would just take that right out of your argument. The Knicks got Pablo because they wanted him and he cost them nothing. Kidd was obtained to mentor Lin and both his and Felton's contracts are much more reasonable in my opinion.

did you ever think Joe johnson would be traded with that contract..EVERY CONTRACT in the NBA is tradable

If you are trading him in year 3, why sign him in the first place???...

because you get him for a great bargain in years 1 and 2!!!...

You are assuming he will be a great bargain at 5 mil per...He has zero track record to say this will be the case...Lin does not want to play here, if he wanted to be a Knick, he would still be a Knick...We all know this...He wants his own stage..He doesn't want to share it with Melo or Amare...Let's hope McHale run an offense for him to take 30 shots per game so he can revive Linsanity in Houston...Meanwhile we have the Heat, Boston and the rest of the hard charging East to worry about...Can't wait for the season to start....

I can't believe your saying that..this is the most humble guy on the planet, with a bunch of greedy agents who know business..How could a guy in the d-league 9 months ago want his own stage..

The stage was right here..it's alright for a pg to shoot 30 times if he has 12 dimes to go with it...and a win

Only the Nyets would have traded for Joe Johnson's contract. No one else would.

Billy King had to get something. He went all in and was at a point where he might lose D-Will and not get Howard either. He was in a similar spot to Walsh when he signed Amare to a max deal that couldn't be insured. Walsh went all in and had to come out with something if it wasn't LBJ.

I still believe that what Chris Paul said at Melo's wedding will come into fruition.

NUPE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Antoni inserted Lin because its what Melo wanted

This is what all the Melo-Haters conveniently ignore.

Again, I like Lin but that contract was just ridiculous and any sensible person knows it.

it is ridiculous if you don't understand how it works.. lin would on average make around 6-7 mil per year.. how is that ridiculous....

ah, unless you want to spin this into him making 15 mil in one year as if that is his yearly salary, or better yet, you put he whole luxury tax burden on his deal.. LOL

It is ok tho that carmelo makes 20 mil a year, right? the first round exit wonder.....

infinitilov100 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lovers are trying to spin it that Lin didn't want to be here?

Knicks told him to go out and get a number. Rockets gave him a crazy contract. At that moment a franchinse is now telling you your the cornerstone going forward.

Lin will be an allstar with the votes he'll likely get in the same manner Yao Ming got. His stats will inflate on a likley Rocket team this year.

Rockets are looking longer term than this season. Maybe Knicks have devised a way to starphuck CP3 here and Lins contract would block it?

Im sure if he succeeds in Houstan and Felton struggles we'll lament.

Lovers be prepared but really you need not defend Dolan and the knicks. It was a shytty thing to happen.

If the KNicks are as good as some of you are touting then Lin becomes a non issue. If not then eat ESPN ranking crow and enjoy the games.

Being wrong is not the end of the world. GM's and teams do it all the time. Its part of the business.

Best scenario is Lin succeeds as does the knicks.

they did not expect him to change the offer. Noticed how the Knicks said they would match the offer until Lin had it changed because of greed?

so lin took, houstons offer and changed it? how in the world is that possible?