KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:More about Kobe (for Pjax):

However, don't confuse Bryant's domination of the ball with Jackson's endorsement of the plan. In the same book, Jackson tells of his annoyance at Bryant's ball-hogging in crunch time. In one instance, he describes drawing up a play with multiple options, in crunch time of a 2004 playoff series against Houston. Bryant destroyed all the options; instead of setting a baseline screen for Shaquille O'Neal he ran straight to the ball. "With the twenty-four-second clock winding down," writes Jackson, "Kobe forced a long jumper, a horrible shot in the game's most critical possession. The ball did not reach the rim..."

Jackson also tells of marching, more than once, into Mitch Kupchak's office to demand that the Lakers trade Bryant. He writes things like:

"Kobe tends to hold on to the ball longer than necessary causing the offense to stagnate."
"He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid."
"As usual, Kobe seemed intent on taking over."

Wow!! Kobe blowing up plays!! Is that dogging it? Pouting? Hhhhhmmm. SO FAMILIAR!

I do agree that Kobe Bryant had a lot of bad habits and that Phil Jackson was able to manage and reduce or eliminate a lot of those, which made Bryant a better player.

I also agree that a coach of that statue may be able to change a lot of Melo’s bad habits, probably demand more from him and make him a better all around player, but I have to see it first, before I give Melo the credit.

Remember that for all of Iverson’s talent, no coach in the NBA could ever change his bad habits (we are talking about practice man) that's why he is no longer in the league, same for Marbury.
So we shall see.

Thats fair - I would like to see what PJax does with Melo too.

But Iverson with Larry Brown went to the Finals and Had a far worse teams than the lakers. Swap the two like I said before and the Lakers win with AI.

Winning hides bad habits as well.

Kobe still has all those bad habits (though maybe reduced by PJax as you stated) but playing with HOFers make it much easier to deal with them.

From what I read, Kobe was/is alot more selfish and much harder to coach than Melo. Shaq hated him and PJax wanted him traded many times.

Yes they went to the finals, (may be because Iverson was in his good behavior that year, I don't know, I’m just assuming) but Philly did not remain a championship team for long due to Iverson's poor habits on and off the court.
Meanwhile, they Lakers have rebuilt their team twice already with Kobe as their best player, and won two championships after Shaq left. While still a little selfish (and arrogant) Kobe’s work ethics and dedication to the game are unquestionable to this day, on and off the court.
That’s the difference.

Kobe doesn't win his 2 rings minus Shaq without overhauling the roster completely to get Bynum, Gasol, and Odom.

This is what happens when you are surrounded by great teammates - THE GET PUT BACKS

Yes, I understand that you need a team to win a championship, but Kobe still achieved individual awards that separated him from the rest of the players at his position while the Lakers were rebuilding around him.

And again, I understand Melo not winning a championship in Denver or here in NY, but he should have achieved at least some type of individual awards if he wants to be compare with the best players.

No Ring
No Awards
No NBA Finals Aperance
No Scoring Title
No MVPs
NOTHING, NADA

Thats what its about Awards?

How many "awards" does Sir Patrick have?

NADA NOTHING NADA

Awards are worthless - they are like allstar votes.

Carmelo did win an NCAA title? FOR SYRACUSE!! Not Kentucky, Duke, Kansas or NC

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:More about Kobe (for Pjax):

However, don't confuse Bryant's domination of the ball with Jackson's endorsement of the plan. In the same book, Jackson tells of his annoyance at Bryant's ball-hogging in crunch time. In one instance, he describes drawing up a play with multiple options, in crunch time of a 2004 playoff series against Houston. Bryant destroyed all the options; instead of setting a baseline screen for Shaquille O'Neal he ran straight to the ball. "With the twenty-four-second clock winding down," writes Jackson, "Kobe forced a long jumper, a horrible shot in the game's most critical possession. The ball did not reach the rim..."

Jackson also tells of marching, more than once, into Mitch Kupchak's office to demand that the Lakers trade Bryant. He writes things like:

"Kobe tends to hold on to the ball longer than necessary causing the offense to stagnate."
"He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid."
"As usual, Kobe seemed intent on taking over."

Wow!! Kobe blowing up plays!! Is that dogging it? Pouting? Hhhhhmmm. SO FAMILIAR!

I do agree that Kobe Bryant had a lot of bad habits and that Phil Jackson was able to manage and reduce or eliminate a lot of those, which made Bryant a better player.

I also agree that a coach of that statue may be able to change a lot of Melo’s bad habits, probably demand more from him and make him a better all around player, but I have to see it first, before I give Melo the credit.

Remember that for all of Iverson’s talent, no coach in the NBA could ever change his bad habits (we are talking about practice man) that's why he is no longer in the league, same for Marbury.
So we shall see.

Thats fair - I would like to see what PJax does with Melo too.

But Iverson with Larry Brown went to the Finals and Had a far worse teams than the lakers. Swap the two like I said before and the Lakers win with AI.

Winning hides bad habits as well.

Kobe still has all those bad habits (though maybe reduced by PJax as you stated) but playing with HOFers make it much easier to deal with them.

From what I read, Kobe was/is alot more selfish and much harder to coach than Melo. Shaq hated him and PJax wanted him traded many times.

Yes they went to the finals, (may be because Iverson was in his good behavior that year, I don't know, I’m just assuming) but Philly did not remain a championship team for long due to Iverson's poor habits on and off the court.
Meanwhile, they Lakers have rebuilt their team twice already with Kobe as their best player, and won two championships after Shaq left. While still a little selfish (and arrogant) Kobe’s work ethics and dedication to the game are unquestionable to this day, on and off the court.
That’s the difference.

Kobe doesn't win his 2 rings minus Shaq without overhauling the roster completely to get Bynum, Gasol, and Odom.

This is what happens when you are surrounded by great teammates - THE GET PUT BACKS

Yes, I understand that you need a team to win a championship, but Kobe still achieved individual awards that separated him from the rest of the players at his position while the Lakers were rebuilding around him.

And again, I understand Melo not winning a championship in Denver or here in NY, but he should have achieved at least some type of individual awards if he wants to be compare with the best players.

No Ring
No Awards
No NBA Finals Aperance
No Scoring Title
No MVPs
NOTHING, NADA

Thats what its about Awards?

How many "awards" does Sir Patrick have?

NADA NOTHING NADA

Awards are worthless - they are like allstar votes.

Carmelo did win an NCAA title? FOR SYRACUSE!! Not Kentucky, Duke, Kansas or NC

Exactly, that is why I will never compare Patrick to Shaq or Hakeem, get it?

Awards are worthless?
What a joke really this is, considering that the TRUE BEST PLAYERS of the NBA usually get them every year, TRUE BEST PLAYERS. Oh man how worthless Lebron, Rose, Duran, Duncan, Kobe, Howard, really are.

Anji wrote:You guys are crazy.

People you say that you can't even compare Kobe to Carmelo. Fine most people know that Kobe is better than Melo and has more hard ware.

Ok,so being the better player with more hard ware why did the Lakers miss the playoffs in 04, get beat in the first round in 05 and 06. Then in 07 get to the finals with his stack team and lose to the Celtics. So, even beinging an MVP, 3 time champ, with the scoring title and a stack team, as great as Kobe is........... they needed a season to gel and get the NBA title in 08.

But people want to dog Melo like there is a champion Gene and since he didn't win it all with Nene and Jr smith when he was 25, and he'll never win. GTFOH

Agree, championships are not won just on talent; some teams with great players need time to develop chemistry which is a HUGE part for team success, especially in the playoffs.
Remember that arguably the best player in the history of the NBA Michael Jordan didn’t win the MVP or championship every year, so I do not expect Kobe or Lebrom or Duncan to do it either.
I’m just asking for a reason as to why All Star Melo should be compare to Kobe Bryant, but they just can’t come up with one.

Yes, I know it's a 5 man team and many other players need improvement as well but this thread is about Carmelo, he is our biggest asset. It took a whole team to acquire him.

We go as Carmelo goes. This is even more true with the resignation of MDA (Linsanity) as Woodson has so far tended to lean heavily on Carmelo for offense.

This team has to improve from within this offseason as we don't have any draft picks or much options on the FA market.

I would gladly do a trade with the Bucks, probably need a 3 team, to get

Ilyasova *S&T*

Monta or Jennings

whoever they wish to package, with Gooden, Udrich, and Dunleavy.

Amare for Pau Gasol straight up.

then

Melo for Deng, CJ Watson, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler and 2 1st rounders.

Chicago would have their Big 2 in Rose and Melo...with Boozer, Noah, Hamilton/Brewer. That would be good enough to knock off Miami.

We get a starting SF, backup PG, a possible starting SG, backup PF and 2 1st rounders.

We would have a lineup of
PG - Lin
SG - Butler
SF - Deng
PF - Gasol
C - Chandler

Bench - Gibson, CJ Watson, Shump, Novak--hoping, Fields, Harrelson, Jerome Jordan

Everybody wins.

MS wrote:
Remember, Marbury got us to the Playoffs when he was first here, put up all world stats and things got really bad.

A. The team wasn't bad: Houston, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Van Horn, Charlie Ward
B. They still had a losing record despite the playoffs. East was abysmal that year.

Those other guys don't compare to the supporting cast of STAT, Chandler, Lin, Shump - overall, anyway you look at it it's a good squad. I think we just need to see if they can swallow some pride and play together. There is chemistry and camaraderie, that can do a lot for a squad. Great season or mediocre season Melo's stock is going to stay up. If next year is a bust, then we take this thread seriously.

Settle down, put the crystal ball away, and take it all in.