ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

I don't believe you have any proof that this is the case. From everything i've ever seen or read this isn't true. It wasn't true in the Boston or Chicago games where the team for the most part was in those games. I think that his fight with Melo was detrimental to him and the team overall. Just days before Melo came back the team was still upbeat and into it. The 6 game losing streak which had some close losses is what soured the mood. It's not like they all turned on MDA for something he did to them. The players were all shocked to learn he had resigned. This is about MDA and Melo plain and simple. The change in Melo's attitude was instantaneous which gives away the truth of how he felt about MDA for whatever reason. It effected how MDA coached as well.

MDA and Woodson use the same defense. The major change came not with defensive philosophy but roster. Adding Tyson and Shump along with Jared was huge. It was unfortunately undermined by STAT and Melo. We saw an immediate and stark improvement when those 2 weren't on the floor. The stats show a huge improvement in D with only the removal of STAT and Melo. It was visible to the naked eye as well. STAT has always stunk, but he started to improve even before MDA left. Melo however, only showed improved effort after MDA left.

I like Woody. I like his coaching and he is doing a great job with the team. I think he relates with the players better. He's still got a heavy load to lift given the hole the team was in, but they look like the team they were supposed to be and that a major credit to him. I hope that he succeeds and gets the job permanently.

It's true.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7684157/mike-dantoni-lost-new-york-knicks-locker-room-according-sources

The players like Mike as a person," one source said. "They think he's a good guy. But he doesn't have the respect of the team anymore."

In addition to questioning D'Antoni, players are complaining about playing time, and confused about the offensive and defensive schemes.

That was hearsay and not real proof that this is true. They surely weren't down on him when they were winning just a week or 2 before Melo came back. It's all too convenient.

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

I don't believe you have any proof that this is the case. From everything i've ever seen or read this isn't true. It wasn't true in the Boston or Chicago games where the team for the most part was in those games. I think that his fight with Melo was detrimental to him and the team overall. Just days before Melo came back the team was still upbeat and into it. The 6 game losing streak which had some close losses is what soured the mood. It's not like they all turned on MDA for something he did to them. The players were all shocked to learn he had resigned. This is about MDA and Melo plain and simple. The change in Melo's attitude was instantaneous which gives away the truth of how he felt about MDA for whatever reason. It effected how MDA coached as well.

MDA and Woodson use the same defense. The major change came not with defensive philosophy but roster. Adding Tyson and Shump along with Jared was huge. It was unfortunately undermined by STAT and Melo. We saw an immediate and stark improvement when those 2 weren't on the floor. The stats show a huge improvement in D with only the removal of STAT and Melo. It was visible to the naked eye as well. STAT has always stunk, but he started to improve even before MDA left. Melo however, only showed improved effort after MDA left.

I like Woody. I like his coaching and he is doing a great job with the team. I think he relates with the players better. He's still got a heavy load to lift given the hole the team was in, but they look like the team they were supposed to be and that a major credit to him. I hope that he succeeds and gets the job permanently.

It's true.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7684157/mike-dantoni-lost-new-york-knicks-locker-room-according-sources

The players like Mike as a person," one source said. "They think he's a good guy. But he doesn't have the respect of the team anymore."

In addition to questioning D'Antoni, players are complaining about playing time, and confused about the offensive and defensive schemes.

That was hearsay and not real proof that this is true. They surely weren't down on him when they were winning just a week or 2 before Melo came back. It's all too convenient.

Guess ESPN is just as good as the NY POST now!

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

I don't believe you have any proof that this is the case. From everything i've ever seen or read this isn't true. It wasn't true in the Boston or Chicago games where the team for the most part was in those games. I think that his fight with Melo was detrimental to him and the team overall. Just days before Melo came back the team was still upbeat and into it. The 6 game losing streak which had some close losses is what soured the mood. It's not like they all turned on MDA for something he did to them. The players were all shocked to learn he had resigned. This is about MDA and Melo plain and simple. The change in Melo's attitude was instantaneous which gives away the truth of how he felt about MDA for whatever reason. It effected how MDA coached as well.

MDA and Woodson use the same defense. The major change came not with defensive philosophy but roster. Adding Tyson and Shump along with Jared was huge. It was unfortunately undermined by STAT and Melo. We saw an immediate and stark improvement when those 2 weren't on the floor. The stats show a huge improvement in D with only the removal of STAT and Melo. It was visible to the naked eye as well. STAT has always stunk, but he started to improve even before MDA left. Melo however, only showed improved effort after MDA left.

I like Woody. I like his coaching and he is doing a great job with the team. I think he relates with the players better. He's still got a heavy load to lift given the hole the team was in, but they look like the team they were supposed to be and that a major credit to him. I hope that he succeeds and gets the job permanently.

It's true.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7684157/mike-dantoni-lost-new-york-knicks-locker-room-according-sources

The players like Mike as a person," one source said. "They think he's a good guy. But he doesn't have the respect of the team anymore."

In addition to questioning D'Antoni, players are complaining about playing time, and confused about the offensive and defensive schemes.

Great article from the Phoenix commentary (kills both MDA and Melo):

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2012/3/16/2873907/carmelo-anthony-and-mike-dantoni-were-a-laughingly-terrible-fit

As former Phoenix Suns coach Mike D'Antoni ponders his future, we Suns fans are left to wonder just how the national media didn't know this day was coming. Those who reveled in the mid-2000s Suns had to know in their hearts that Carmelo Anthony was the worst possible ingredient to a Mike D'Antoni winning recipe.

Forget for a moment that the same national media touted Jeremy Lin - he of a handful of NBA starts and career shooting percentage under 40% - as the second coming to two-time NBA MVP Steve Nash. And forget for another moment that Amare Stoudemire is physically regressing before our eyes. Both of those are still open for debate. Lin DOES run the pick-and-roll like Nash sometimes. And Suns fans have seen Amare rise from the ashes many a time to be better than ever.

But one aspect of that Knicks team is not debatable: Carmelo Anthony and Mike D'Antoni were a laughingly terrible fit.

Star-divide

Carmelo Anthony is one of the NBA's best "isolation" players - taking the ball on the wing, inside the 3-pt line, and creating a shot for himself no matter how many defenders are committed to stopping him. Anthony can pass, for sure. But he doesn't. He just shucks and jives and hoists a shot. He is also a me-first diva who pouts during a live NBA basketball game when it's been more than 2 minutes since his last iso. Deadly.

Alternately, the word "isolation" is not in Mike's playbook. His offense thrives on a ball-pounding, pass-before-shooting-but-being-hyper-dangerous-either-way point guard looking to find the open spot-up shooter or rolling dunker. His offense thrives on spacing. There can only be two guys inside the 3-point line - the point guard and a mobile big. And that's only after the initial high screen to get the defense on their heels. If the defense loads up on the big, then he takes the open shot himself. If the defense loads up on both the ballhandler and the big, then he just swings the ball to one of 2 or 3 open shooters on the 3-point line. D'Antoni's primary ballhandler NEVER forces a bad shot. "The ball finds the energy," D'Antoni always said. Deadly.

Putting D'Antoni and Anthony on the same team? Deadly. And not in a good way.

Seeing the utter flameout of D'Antoni in New York, culminating in yesterday's resignation after only 10 horrible games with the "stars" together (Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin and Chandler), gives me so much more respect for George Karl than I'd ever had before.

Look at the current, post-Anthony Nuggets. They are the leagues latest epitome of a ball-sharing, PG-heavy team. The hot hand gets the ball. There's a new scoring leader every night, and yet not a single all-star on the team. The new Nuggets are winning a lot of games.

Somehow, George Karl was able to thrive with Carmelo Anthony in his lineup too. Karl always had the iso-heavy Nuggets in the 50-win range, topping out at the Western Conference Finals a few years ago. He stayed with his team, and kept them dangerous every season, despite major injury issues to Nene, crazy head games with JR Smith, me-first play from Carmelo and his own cancer scare.

D'Antoni? In a mere 12 months with two of the NBA's best individual players, he lost the respect of the locker room (Anthony), and just walked away.

D'Antoni's experience in New York reminds me of a campy, funny Brendan Fraser movie where his wishes always came true but they were horribly twisted into variations that failed miserably.

D'Antoni got his all-star scorers, including the game's best pick-and-roll finisher (Stoudemire and Anthony). He got his Nash-like point guard to run the show (Lin). He got his defense-oriented C to cover for his all-stars' mistakes (Chandler). And he got some 3-point shooters around the wing (JR Smith, Steve Novak). What could go wrong?

Well, his Nash-like point guard can't shoot or hold onto the ball. His defense-oriented C is clogging the lane, messing up the spacing for his All-Star power forward - who somehow lost the explosiveness that defined his game. His all-star small forward is clogging the lane and the ball too. And with 3 guys who won't and can't stay behind the 3-point line, the spacing on the offense disappears. In fact, the Knicks have boasted the WORST offense in the league when these 4 (Chandler, Lin, Anthony and Stoudemire) are on the floor together. And, if Chandler is sitting, the other 3 boast the WORST defense in the league too.

And Mike D'Antoni cannot stomach it, so he just quit. Just like in 2008.

He can't stand being called to the carpet. It's one thing to lose when you're supposed to. But losing when you're supposed to win? And having your own front office *gasp* wonder why you can't win with the tools they gave you? The tools, by the way, that local and national media collectively believed was enough to win with?

That's not how Mike rolls. His skin is thinner than a sheet of onion paper. Suns fans know this all too well. D'Antoni quit within 24 hours of a first-round loss to the Spurs in 2008 - their third loss to the Spurs in 4 seasons. He bristled when his rookie GM said something along the lines of "I think we need to focus more on defense in order to beat teams like the Spurs. I'm not sure we can ever win the big one without a couple tweaks in your approach." D'Antoni stomped his feet, crossed his arms, and walked away in a huff. Less than a month later, in an interview with his new best friends amongst the New York media, he admitted that he may have overreacted.

D'Antoni got what he wanted. He got the big contract and the spotlight as the Knicks savior. He got love from the national media and a two year honeymoon as everyone waited patiently for the new Knicks to be shaped and reborn.

But once the unconditional love turned to "tough love", once the future became the present, and yet the wins didn't automatically materialize, D'Antoni left. He didn't even wait for playoff heartbreak this time. He just walked away in a huff, an intractable child who won't implement whatever it takes to win games. He just coaches one way, and hopes the players figure out how to make it work.

Mike D'Antoni is no George Karl. And I would not be surprised if he never gets another head coaching gig in the NBA.

misterearl wrote:We Are Exactly Where We are Supposed To Be

nixluva wrote:We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

nixluva - your memory is selective and oh so narrow. Carmelo played every freakin' position on the floor except center to start the season. The whole "dogging it" company line neglects the multiple injuries he absorbed, and played despite, after the first month of the season - which he came out the blocks red hot.

Same with Shumpert. His knees were damaged during the Boston opener and he played despite the pain. How many people thought Shump was dogging it?

Shump is just now gaining his sea legs and confidence in his repaired jumper. His defense improves with his health. That, my friend, is a scary thought. Why? Because I see too much Michael Jordan in Iman.

Was Amar'e dogging it while playing matador defense? Or was his back still sending his muscles mixed signals?

Right now we on the "this won't last against good teams"
before that it was, "I'm still waiting for Carmelo to be the reason that we win"
Before that it was, the catch phase was about "MIKE WOODS AND ISO JOE BALL"
before that it was, "NOW WE ALL SEE WHY MDA DIDN'T HAVE GOOD DEFENSIVE TEAMS WITH STAT AND NASH PLAYING THE 1&5"
ect

What a joke...........

If you have an elite scorer who is an ISO king why try to make him into something he's not? Why not cater to his strengths and make the pieces fit around him? It's because MDA is not capable of doing it. I hope Woody gets our boys deep into the playoffs and becomes the permanent coach.

mrKnickShot wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Woodson is making MDA look real bad. At the end of the day it's the coaches job to make sure he makes the pieces fit not have the pieces fit a system. If MDA would have budged just a bit and ran a few Iso plays for Melo maybe the relationship wouldn't have become so bad. Even with Melo being banged up right now he looks like a totally different player and I'm not talking about defense.

If you have an elite scorer who is an ISO king why try to make him into something he's not? Why not cater to his strengths and make the pieces fit around him? It's because MDA is not capable of doing it. I hope Woody gets our boys deep into the playoffs and becomes the permanent coach.

Just to manage expectations, with the position that MDA put us in, it will be hard to do better than the 7 or 8 seed therefore, we will be a huge long shot to make it out of the first round.

Agreed but we can still win the Atlantic. It may be more likely to not happen than it is to happen but you never know. If my G-Men can win it all after a 9-7 season I think the Knicks may be able to pull off a miracle and win the division as well.

CashMoney wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Woodson is making MDA look real bad. At the end of the day it's the coaches job to make sure he makes the pieces fit not have the pieces fit a system. If MDA would have budged just a bit and ran a few Iso plays for Melo maybe the relationship wouldn't have become so bad. Even with Melo being banged up right now he looks like a totally different player and I'm not talking about defense.

If you have an elite scorer who is an ISO king why try to make him into something he's not? Why not cater to his strengths and make the pieces fit around him? It's because MDA is not capable of doing it. I hope Woody gets our boys deep into the playoffs and becomes the permanent coach.

Just to manage expectations, with the position that MDA put us in, it will be hard to do better than the 7 or 8 seed therefore, we will be a huge long shot to make it out of the first round.

Agreed but we can still win the Atlantic. It may be more likely to not happen than it is to happen but you never know. If my G-Men can win it all after a 9-7 season I think the Knicks may be able to pull off a miracle and win the division as well.

Yeah - I always think to myself ... Why can't the knicks pull off a miracle? MY G-MEN did it twice.

The Giants win this year makes me a less angry Knick fan.

FoeDiddy wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Woodson is making MDA look real bad. At the end of the day it's the coaches job to make sure he makes the pieces fit not have the pieces fit a system. If MDA would have budged just a bit and ran a few Iso plays for Melo maybe the relationship wouldn't have become so bad. Even with Melo being banged up right now he looks like a totally different player and I'm not talking about defense.

If you have an elite scorer who is an ISO king why try to make him into something he's not? Why not cater to his strengths and make the pieces fit around him? It's because MDA is not capable of doing it. I hope Woody gets our boys deep into the playoffs and becomes the permanent coach.

Just to manage expectations, with the position that MDA put us in, it will be hard to do better than the 7 or 8 seed therefore, we will be a huge long shot to make it out of the first round.

Agreed but we can still win the Atlantic. It may be more likely to not happen than it is to happen but you never know. If my G-Men can win it all after a 9-7 season I think the Knicks may be able to pull off a miracle and win the division as well.

Yeah - I always think to myself ... Why can't the knicks pull off a miracle? MY G-MEN did it twice.

The Giants win this year makes me a less angry Knick fan.

Man if it wasn't for the Giants..I would have been an angrier Knicks fan all season. But I've calmly let things play out.

And who has taken more heat in NY than Eli Manning! This Melo hate is nothing compared to that.

HugeKnick4 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Rookie wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Will To Win

Mike Woodson is showing he is a better coach.

C'mon nixluva, it won't hurt you to admit it.

We saw MDA have success with this team minus Melo. Melo never gave MDA the effort that we see him giving now. If he had there's no way this team is struggling to lock up the 8th seed. This is really a dumb argument, since both coaches have had about the same level of success in the league, MDA perhaps a bit more, but overall MDA had to fight with his star player rather than that player basically doing his job and giving max effort from day one.

And I know some with say look at the defense but lets remember that this team defended better statistically all year when Melo wasn't playing. The same went for STAT, but with Melo it's clear he could easily have played harder all the time. He basically went from doggin it to bustin his hump in one afternoon. You can't say it was Woody's coaching when he hadn't even coached one practice before we saw a renewed Melo on defense!!!! Woody didn't even had a chance to make any changes in the D and the players admitted that it was mostly just effort. They gave that same effort during Linsanity when Melo wasn't playing. Things only got bad when he came back!!! So basically Melo didn't play for MDA. Maybe he didn't like his accent. Melo played for Woody without so much as a practice to work off of. It was too abrupt a turnaround for my taste. I don't want my teams best player acting like that.

We'd better all hope to God that Melo hasn't damaged the teams chances this year by his dogging it most of the year. We should be leading the Atlantic.

You should direct that blame at D'Antoni. How many times have the whole Knicks team look like they just ate a whole Turkey at halftime to start 2nd halves?

i always did a better job when working for a boss who didn't act like they were above me. Just made me feel better about the job and made me want to work harder. Not sure it's the case here, but I'm guessing that Woodson is a much better communicator then MDA was.

+1

This can be said for anyone who works in any environment.

Did Stat "Dog It" for MDA? He certainly did not play defense for him. Once Woodson took over, his defense looked stellar! That does not bold well for MDA.

It was not one guy who quit on MDA - HE LOST THE WHOLE TEAM!

That's what I don't get. It wasn't just Melo, it was the ENTIRE team that tuned MDA out. His system and focus on offense wasn't working and they stopped buying into his gimmicky approach to basketball. It's like the style over substance argument. D'Antoni would rather lose a nailbiter as long as his team hit 10+ threes, shot 50% from the field, and had a 2 to 1 assist/TO ratio. Woodson would just rather gut out an ugly ISO heavy slugfest no matter what the percentages.

To argue that the entire team tuned MDA out seems a bit over the top.

I think he lost the team - as a team. I think at the end they were all really relieved that it was over. Stat looked like he was release from a cage after MDA.

I think at the end there was a general relief that now the tension between MDA and Melo was gone. MDA wasn't adjusting and Melo was half-heartedly attempting to adjust. That doesn't mean the TEAM tuned MDA out. It means it was time for a change...yes...because the team was on egg shells when it was playing. Melo didn't know how to adjust to MDA's system and Lin. Lin didn't really adjust to Melo and Stat. Stat and Melo never seems to be completed aligned. Sometimes change for the simply for the sake of change just allows teams to soar to new heights.

I definitely agree with that sometimes you need to shake things up to get better. Marriage is a 2 way street. Half of them end up in divorce. Both Melo and MDA would not budge. At the end of day, Melo and the Knicks are in the thick of the hunt, and MDA might get his new payday and best PG in Clipperland if things fall into place.

misterearl wrote:Coaching Is Psychology

It is understanding individuals and knowing how to help them reach peak performance. It goes beyond skill sets and statistics. Sometimes a coach simply needs to have a feel for the person.

Coaching, especially in this decade, is not about imposing your will on your players. Those days went out of style with Bobby Knights checkerboard, cuffed trousers.

Coaching Is Fearless.

The best part of what Woodson installed was the word, "accountability." It was simple and to the point. You mess up? I will call you on it. Not in the locker room or on the team bus. Not in the newspapers. On the spot.

The cold glare Woodson gave Davis last night, after a lazy entry pass (turnover) and a forced shot, was priceless. If you watched carefully, you saw the camera catch Woodson shouting at The Savior Formerly Known as Baron Davis to get closer to the free throw line with a distinct edge. It was his way of saying, "you better get your mind right."

You Suck. You sit.

Me like.

I think that this is the reason that when challenging PJax's resume, saying: "He always had the GREAT players", it's silly. Great players are the most difficult to coach.

The way he handle marbury was the worst, that was a tell tell sign right there, and thats despite steph been a jerk and locker room killer..

I don't give phil no credit, he had 2 of the best leaders in the history of sports, are you kidding me (did you see the documentry spike did on kobe) those guys put in work on both ends every night, you didn't have tell them sht but pass the ball one in a while.

Also don't forget, he TOLD DOLAN he would coach the rest of the season, DOLAN basically said beat it.

Woodson is old school, and he has the right mix of guys to play his style, and isn't he's running most of MDA's plays/ The thing MDA cound't figure out was how to run his offense and keep melo and amare in rythem..

IMO he adjusted so much to melo that he started thinking, **** it, your the best passer and scorer on the team, you run it..Now you putting this guy in a role he's never been in..ever

The only difference i see in woodson and