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Childs2Dudley
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1/26/2012  9:48 PM
EnySpree wrote:

game footage from the bobcat game....

clip says it all....this ****ing guy needs to play

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nixluva
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1/26/2012  10:04 PM
We all like the kids talent, but can we let him build up to his shot at PG. Why do we need to rush him in there? He's learning and working on his game, just let him keep doing that and when the Coaches think he's ready i'm sure he'll get a shot, but just remember that he's behind TD who they just re-upped. Lin is gonna have to play so well that he forces their hand. I actually think he has the talent to do it, but it still has to be done before he'll get the nod over vets like TD and Bibby. I think we're all pulling for the kid.
EnySpree
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1/26/2012  10:04 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Lin is nothing special and this wont happen anyway so there is no point in discussing it.

GKF doesn't like Chinese people

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EnySpree
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1/26/2012  10:09 PM
nixluva wrote:We all like the kids talent, but can we let him build up to his shot at PG. Why do we need to rush him in there? He's learning and working on his game, just let him keep doing that and when the Coaches think he's ready i'm sure he'll get a shot, but just remember that he's behind TD who they just re-upped. Lin is gonna have to play so well that he forces their hand. I actually think he has the talent to do it, but it still has to be done before he'll get the nod over vets like TD and Bibby. I think we're all pulling for the kid.

welcome back dude....I just can't take the stuff being said about him like hes total trash....he is not.I can totally get what you say, because thats what hes going through...but it comes a time when you gotta let the dude play. the clip I posted was a perfect example of his talent. He looks great now. I wanna see him play. If he got like 15-20 minutes I believe he would totally succeed

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RonRon
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1/26/2012  10:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/26/2012  10:30 PM
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:We all like the kids talent, but can we let him build up to his shot at PG. Why do we need to rush him in there? He's learning and working on his game, just let him keep doing that and when the Coaches think he's ready i'm sure he'll get a shot, but just remember that he's behind TD who they just re-upped. Lin is gonna have to play so well that he forces their hand. I actually think he has the talent to do it, but it still has to be done before he'll get the nod over vets like TD and Bibby. I think we're all pulling for the kid.

welcome back dude....I just can't take the stuff being said about him like hes total trash....he is not.I can totally get what you say, because thats what hes going through...but it comes a time when you gotta let the dude play. the clip I posted was a perfect example of his talent. He looks great now. I wanna see him play. If he got like 15-20 minutes I believe he would totally succeed

Indeed, him not getting getting any burn while Bibby and TD is just not acceptable with the way we are currently continually playing...
What kind of a message are we sending to our 3rd string players that continue to work hard?
Listen, if we were winning, while Iman, TD, and Bibby, were getting it done, then whatever.
But its clear we need a PG, while we can't get any good shots or even looks at all.

It's fair to say he should has talent and he is not a rookie.
If none of those guys are getting it done, somewhere down the line of the "PGs", he deserves a shot.
Instead of promoting bad PG, play and getting the same results, when are we going to give him a shot.
Aside from Iman's 4 game win streak, Bibby's 2 games which he hit like 4 3pters each, and TD's half decent games 2 or 3 out of 18 games performance.
He should get some minutes, we have been patient, its 1/4 of the season already, and our back up PG's have been giving the same result.

And Yes, I think eventually, he should get a look at being the starting PG, at least b4 Baron Davis gets healthy.
Like I said, we need to have at least 2 players that can penetrate at all times.

TC
Amare
Melo
Iman
Lin

It's not coming from the Center or PF, with TC this year.
He is the only guard that knows how to use speed, quickness, and has a good handle, to penetrate the paint to break down the defense.
Now, if he can do what he did, with starting caliber players in the league, it would open up everyone's game.
It would give

Iman
Melo

a triple threat, once they get the ball.

Bippity10
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1/26/2012  10:54 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
upstate wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:Lin's career average is 1.4 assists to .6 turnovers. Someone do the math real quick.

What's that like 14:1 assist to turnover ratio. Again, he may be a superstar. May be the greatest pg in the history of the world for all I know, but he has shown none of this in actual game action. All he has shown is the potential to one day get minutes


No, that's like 14:6, or 7:3 or 2.33:1

Thanks Ramtour. Your math skills are invaluable

If you are going to use it to prove a point, might as well not make stuff up. 2.33:1 is pretty decent, considering 3:1 is the golden standard. Thank you, please come again.

You just proved my point. At 2.33:1 he has done nothing to separate himself. He's not a great scorer, defender or shooter and his assist to turnover ratio is mediocre. So back to my original point. Maybe he's a basketball god. Maybe he's destroying everyone including Melo in practice. But my question is what is everyone actually seeing in four minutes a night in 6 meaningless games that has separated him from td and or Bibby. Are you saying its his 2.33.1 turnover ratio?

Um, I don't know why you think I proved your point. Nothing to separate himself from who? Top PG of the league? He is below the golden standard atm, sure. Do you need him to have 3:1 ratio in order for people to be able to say that he is our best,healthy, PG without you thinking that its somehow proving your point? And please spare us from going back to your original failed attempt at sarcasm, us knick fans have already been through enough pain.

This is one of those circle arguments. I'm asking what has he shown in his four minutes of meaningless play in blow outs to separate himself from tony and bibby. I'm not saying he is or isn't better. I'm asking you or anyone else what has he done on a basketball court to prove to all of us that he is our best pg and should be starting over the other three guys. There is nothing that stands out. Not assist to turnover, not shooting, not defense, not rebounding? What am I missing. Hes shown potential but no results.

He has shown results. 4 assists and 8 points, with 2 rebounds in 6 minutes is tremendous production, plus all of the assists were in the flow of running the offense, and he would've had more had a few more shots dropped. Plus he has produced in D League not only this year but all of last year (1st team D League). How are you going to see results if you don't play him?

Please allow me to use the phrase loweyeque used(hopefully he wouldn't mind) and I quote: "preach reason at your own peril."

You guys have the reading comprehension of four year olds. I did not utter any resistance to playing him. I even said in the very post that you responded to "I'm not saying he is or isn't better" it's written a mere 4 lines above the response. I'll ask the question again. What has he done to separate himself from abibby and td in the meaningless minutes he has received. What has he shown in four minutes per game that so many can definitively say that he is the best pg on the team, clearly should be a major part of the rotation and that our coaching staff has an obvious agenda against him.

Again, I'm fine if they play him tomorrow. Imfine if they give him a shot. I'm just not sure how we turn the situation around our 12th man into an indictment of the coaching staff. Blast there preparation. Blast ther past defensive woes. Blast them for our poor offense. But for Jeremy Lin? we have some people saying Baron will not make a difference. Some of those same people are saying Jeremy Lin will? It's odd to me.

Why am I so adamant about this topic? Because its a repeat of our conversations about td 2'years ago. It's a repeat of the Anthony Randolph can't miss arguments from last year. Let's show some patience for once. Let the kid develop before we declare him the starter. Four weeks ago he was a nervous wreck during the final four minutes of a meaningless blowout. Now we want to thrust the guy out there against Chris Paul, rondo and everyone else on the brightest stage in the nba. Let the guy get his sea legs. If he is outplaying td and bibby our staff will play him. They've done it time and time again over the last three years.

I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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1/26/2012  11:12 PM
I think what you guys are missing is the building of lins confidence. Over time if you put him in a position to succeed he will continue to improve. He learns the offense, he has success in garbage time, he begins to think he belongs. Back in the day only the best rookies played right away. The rest sat behind a vet and learned. The ewatched the game and learned. Nothing wrong with that. The kid is 23 years old and has been with three teams in three years. He's now in the pressure cooker of my city playing before a crowd that wants to point fingers at anyone nd everyone. Let him work his way in to the lineup by clearly outplaying the vets in front of him. There is no rush. If baron isn't saving our season than neither is Jeremy Lin. So relax show some patience. If he's good he will eventually play
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
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1/26/2012  11:13 PM
Bippity10 wrote:Let the guy get his sea legs. If he is outplaying td and bibby our staff will play him. They've done it time and time again over the last three years.

I find it funny how they bash MDA for his treatment of our young players but then lament that we traded those kids cuz they're so good and better than what we have now. How is it that MDA failed to develop the young guys we had but now we want those guys back? Which is it? Time after time this coach has been right about the young guys and their development. Everyone wanted TD to play more, Hill, Randolph and in the end it turns out MDA wasn't wrong to slow down their playing time for more development. Gallo, Wilson, Fields, Moz, Shawne and even Walker played well last year. Even going back to PHX he did a good job with a guy like Diaw who had done nothing up to that point. Shump and Jorts had meaningful minutes this year, but still this nonsense persists. We can't have it both ways. MDA can't be a failure and at the same time the players he develop are worth keeping here rather than trading them.
Childs2Dudley
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1/26/2012  11:15 PM
We're at the point now where we're begging for a D-League guy who got by two teams in the same training camp to play.

Is nobody really thinking about this? If this is our hope then what's the next hope after this? Hoping Jeffries develops an offensive game? Bibby goes int a time machine? Jerome Jordan morphs into Michael Jordan?

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nixluva
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1/26/2012  11:23 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:We're at the point now where we're begging for a D-League guy who got by two teams in the same training camp to play.

Is nobody really thinking about this? If this is our hope then what's the next hope after this? Hoping Jeffries develops an offensive game? Bibby goes int a time machine? Jerome Jordan morphs into Michael Jordan?

I'd settle for the supporting cast to play like they did last year. If our role players were hitting like they did last year that would help. A healthy Melo would be nice. So far we haven't had the team as a whole clicking all year. Either someone is hurt or slumping.

It can take years for a good PG to really reach his potential in running a pro offense. Not counting the great ones who are natural passers. The average PG needs time and even more so in this system which puts so much responsibility on the PG to actually THINK when he's out there. It only looks like all you have to do is drive off picks, but in truth there's more to it than that. The PG has to read the defense and direct his teammates while tricking the D into moving where they want them to go in order to open up the open shot. I think Lin has more ability to do that than the guys we have playing now, but he's still gotta learn the ins and outs of this system in order to really be effective. Took a month for Duhon, Felton and CB, so that should tell you something.

RonRon
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1/26/2012  11:53 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:We're at the point now where we're begging for a D-League guy who got by two teams in the same training camp to play.

Is nobody really thinking about this? If this is our hope then what's the next hope after this? Hoping Jeffries develops an offensive game? Bibby goes int a time machine? Jerome Jordan morphs into Michael Jordan?

Successful NBA call-ups

Many former NBA draftees, waived players and undrafted players have played in the NBA D-League. Some of the called-up D-League players that went on to have successful NBA careers include Rafer Alston, Louis Amundson, Chris Andersen, Kelenna Azubuike, Matt Barnes, Devin Brown, Will Bynum, Matt Carroll, Eddie Gill, Stephen Graham, Jason Hart, Chuck Hayes, Anthony Johnson, Dahntay Jones, Jamario Moon, Mikki Moore, Smush Parker, Bobby Simmons, Ime Udoka, Von Wafer, C. J. Watson, and Mike Wilks.[17] Aside from these players, there are several successful NBA players who were assigned to the D-League in their first and second season, such as José Juan Barea, Brandon Bass, Andray Blatche, Aaron Brooks, Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown, Marcin Gortat, Ramon Sessions and Martell Webster.[18]

In the 2009–10 NBA season, a record of 27 players have been called up for a record 40 times. Several of those players earned a season-long contracts after being key contributors, including Anthony Tolliver, Chris Hunter and Reggie Williams (all Golden State Warriors), Sundiata Gaines (Utah Jazz), Chris Richard (Chicago Bulls), and Mario West (Atlanta Hawks).[17]

Currently, there are only 12 players with D-League experience who won an NBA title: Tremaine Fowlkes with the Detroit Pistons in 2003–04; Devin Brown and Mike Wilks with the San Antonio Spurs in 2004–05; Earl Barron and Dorell Wright with the Miami Heat in 2005–06; James White with the San Antonio Spurs in 2006–07; Gabe Pruitt with the Boston Celtics in 2007–08; and, Sun Yue and Shannon Brown with the Los Angeles Lakers, Jordan Farmar, Josh Powell in 2008–09,and 2009-10, and most recently Jose Juan Barea, Rodrigue Beaubois, Ian Mahinmi and Dominique Jones with the Dallas Mavericks in 2010-2011.[19] Bobby Simmons and Aaron Brooks are the only former D-League players to win an NBA end of season award; Simmons won the Most Improved Player Award with the Los Angeles Clippers in 2004–05 and Brooks won the Most Improved Player Award with the Houston Rockets in 2009–10.[20][21]

you are so ignorant, I am saying we need help at the PG. While he can contribute better than TD and Mike Bibby.
He is not a rookie like ,Iman Shumpert, while his speed, quickness, handle, ability to penetrate and facilitate can help this team.

We do not have a single player that his his play making skills with his speed and quickness, aside from a healthy Baron Davis.
He compliments the team better as Fields, TD, and Bibby are unable to break their man 1v1 off the dribble.
He has the ability to help us get better looks and take better shots.
I can see him contributing to the team even when Baron Davis is healthy.
Iman and Melo would also be able to penetrate, shoot, or pass once they get the basketball

IF

Lin can perform the way he did in those 4 minutes of "garbage time" vs starting NBA talent...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Development_League

EnySpree
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1/26/2012  11:59 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:We're at the point now where we're begging for a D-League guy who got by two teams in the same training camp to play.

Is nobody really thinking about this? If this is our hope then what's the next hope after this? Hoping Jeffries develops an offensive game? Bibby goes int a time machine? Jerome Jordan morphs into Michael Jordan?

John Stark was working for Safeway before the Knicks came calling....Jeremy Lin is a d-league guy now. When he starts to play meaningful minutes he can be the tea bag and you can be the cup of hot water

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ramtour420
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1/27/2012  12:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2012  12:05 AM
Nix, it don't have nothing to do what happened before and I doubt anyone wants those crap players back. We need a PG now. Really really bad. The kid has shown he has potential. And then he gets sent to d-league. That's not cool. Meanwhile TD assistto turnover this year is 1.22:1 meaning Lin gets nearly double the assists per turnover
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nixluva
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1/27/2012  12:42 AM
ramtour420 wrote:Nix, it don't have nothing to do what happened before and I doubt anyone wants those crap players back. We need a PG now. Really really bad. The kid has shown he has potential. And then he gets sent to d-league. That's not cool. Meanwhile TD assistto turnover this year is 1.22:1 meaning Lin gets nearly double the assists per turnover

Getting sent to the D league wasn't a punishment! The team wants to try and give the kids a shot to get some run which is hard with the lack of practice time we've had. This season sucks in terms of developing young players. There are no consecutive days off like in a normal season. You can't have one of those mini camps during an extended set of off days.

Also you severely underestimate the NBA level of play and how hard it is to just learn this offense on the fly. There are so many things to learn. Just getting the basics is one thing but then you have to learn the variations based on what the defense takes away. There are so many different things a kid has to learn. You can't make a judgement of how far he's come in learning by watching some garbage time minutes against another teams scrubs. That's next to meaningless.

knicks1248
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1/27/2012  1:36 AM
EnySpree wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Lin is dfntly not a NBA starter..are you seriously joking..I agree he should see some minutes, but let's get real...give me one starting pg in currently playing that Lin is better then..that list would be microscopic

You are correct....lin is not a starting calibur point guard.

To ask if he's better than established nba starters is ****ing retarded.

To answer your need to make a point....I thought Lin was just as good if not better than any point guard on the floor last night against clevland. That includes Irving, Sessions, Gibson, Bibby, Shump and Douglas.

Really, you either was high or drunk, either way your way off..

either you are blind and deaf or you have time warner cable or too broke to even have cable


No i have the nba pack on DTV...cmon who still has cable

But really dude, lin better the Irving or sessions, you picked a clip from a blow out bobcats game in garbage time to prove a point, or where you just being sarcastic..

I never said he shouldn't get minutes.. as a matter of fact, im completely loss as to why lin and NOVAK continue to be burried on the bench.


MDA is doing a terrible job at managing his rotation in this short lockout season..Waiting on Baron, are you serious..TD and AMARE didn't touch a basketball since april.Had the season started on time, neither one would have been ready. Baron will be a rusty old nail for atleast a month...

So let me make this clear, LIN deserves a shot, deserves at least 15/20 min..

ES
ramtour420
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1/27/2012  1:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2012  1:51 AM
nixluva wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Nix, it don't have nothing to do what happened before and I doubt anyone wants those crap players back. We need a PG now. Really really bad. The kid has shown he has potential. And then he gets sent to d-league. That's not cool. Meanwhile TD assistto turnover this year is 1.22:1 meaning Lin gets nearly double the assists per turnover

Getting sent to the D league wasn't a punishment! The team wants to try and give the kids a shot to get some run which is hard with the lack of practice time we've had. This season sucks in terms of developing young players. There are no consecutive days off like in a normal season. You can't have one of those mini camps during an extended set of off days.

Also you severely underestimate the NBA level of play and how hard it is to just learn this offense on the fly. There are so many things to learn. Just getting the basics is one thing but then you have to learn the variations based on what the defense takes away. There are so many different things a kid has to learn. You can't make a judgement of how far he's come in learning by watching some garbage time minutes against another teams scrubs. That's next to meaningless.

Well, some points i agree. Yes, in this season is tough to learn on the fly. The basics and then the variations is a tough task to ask anyone to learn. But I must also add that TD has been with the team for quite some time now. About 4 or 5 times as long as Lin has. Does he show that he is a tiny teeny fraction of a percent better at running the team? No, quite the opposite. And he is hurt as well. Why are we running him into the ground? Making his life, stats and confidence a thing of a long, long time ago in a land far away? Playing him more is making it worse. Our first game we beat the Celts. Look at us now, not only do we lack confidence but we are HURT. TD is hurt, Melo is hurt and those are our primary playmakers. So whats our solution? Run them into the ground? Ruin their bodies and destroy their confidence alltogether by putting them into positions to fail because their weaknesses are magnified? That is what MDA is doing.

Now here is what I don't agree with. Making a judgement based on his time spent in a blowout against scrubs. Sure its easy to dismiss and sent him to D-league. But, he was playing with total scrubs as well. And he showed his understanding of the system and an ability to run it. Yes, against scrubs, but also with scrubs as his running mates. While TD, who he is competing against for playing time, have shown a complete opposite. A total lack of ability to perform, playing along side of our best players against the opposing best players. It is not going to get better either, our guys are already breaking down. Now is the time to act. So the logical conclusion would be to see what Lin can do in a real game. Playing with the starters against opposing starters. He has shown promise in every other situation. Minutes in a blowout playing with and against scrubs- check. Ripping a new one in the D-league- check. Once BD comes back tho, its game over for Lin. TD will look a bit better. We will play a bit better. Will BD make us the best team in the league? Probably not. But to think that he will not improve our pathetic play would be just as wrong. We probably have the worst PG play in the whole league right now. We can blame the league schedule, the system, the coach, TD injuries , whatever. Point is that Lin would improve us in that area simply by default.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nixluva
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1/27/2012  2:51 AM
If Lin develops to the point where he's ready to play I don't believe that he wouldn't play when Baron is ready. Lin could still take the place of TD and Bibby if he's showing himself to be a better floor general. MDA wants to win. His decisions are only based on whether he feels a player can help him win. That's it.
ramtour420
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1/27/2012  3:07 AM
nixluva wrote:If Lin develops to the point where he's ready to play I don't believe that he wouldn't play when Baron is ready. Lin could still take the place of TD and Bibby if he's showing himself to be a better floor general. MDA wants to win. His decisions are only based on whether he feels a player can help him win. That's it.

I am not doubting his intentions. Only his methods.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nixluva
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1/27/2012  3:50 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
nixluva wrote:If Lin develops to the point where he's ready to play I don't believe that he wouldn't play when Baron is ready. Lin could still take the place of TD and Bibby if he's showing himself to be a better floor general. MDA wants to win. His decisions are only based on whether he feels a player can help him win. That's it.

I am not doubting his intentions. Only his methods.

MDA's record of developing young talent is great. Here in NY he has done a good job of evaluating if players have what it takes. I would defer to his judgment on this and nothing he's done would go against that. He will get Lin in there when he feels its right and Lin is ready for the promotion.

MattSuspect
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1/27/2012  4:57 AM
#freejeremylin
Start Lin @ PG

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