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Shumpert For Life
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nixluva
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1/8/2012  4:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/8/2012  4:25 PM
The funny thing to me is that there's no credit given for the intangible impact a player has on a his team. He reminds me of Rondo a bit. You spend so much time ragging on Rondo's shaky jumper that you totally miss the impact he has on his team's ability to WIN GAMES!!!

Doesn't matter if Iman isn't a perfect shooter. He literally OOZES positive energy that picks up the rest of the team. Guys that have always been high energy and pumped guys looked down and lethargic before he started playing. Now guys are moving and grooving on O and D. That's the most important factor for this team. Iman gets into the teeth of the D which we DESPERATELY needed!!! Those drives and little shovel passes to open teammates are exactly what this team needs to run a high efficiency offense. That says he's capable of running the point and should get even better as he learns more tricks of the trade and gains more experience.

Just put this in your thought process when evaluating Shump. His success isn't predicated on some scoring explosion that could be a fluke. He's been successful doing the little things. Defense, rebounding, solid passing, smart decision making and being able to control his urge to shoot the ball just cuz he has it in his hands. That's who he is and has always shown himself to be in college. People focused on the wrong things. They said he couldn't run point, but he was a PG his whole career. He's succeeded so far just being who he is. He hasn't changed a thing. (except shooting too much, which he was compelled to do on a bad college team )

AUTOADVERT
FoeDiddy
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1/8/2012  6:15 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:Here is the thing about your comment I highlighted: you have done the exact same thing but in the opposite direction; you hyped that this kid was trash when he was drafted and you are still doing it in your comment about next season.

How about we watch how this plays out and enjoy the ride instead of acting like we can definitively predict the future each and every time.

I didn't say he was trash. I said his upside was limited.

The guy has tools but alot of guards have athleticism without a jumper. Ronnie Brewer comes to mind.

Are you even watching the games? Upside limited??

Here is how I know this guy is gonna be good. Those two assist he had to Amare for dunks. What impressed me was not the move to get there or the pass themselves but that he didn't get charges making those passes. Those are moves stars or solid NBA players make. He isn't a Landry Fields or Toney Douglas with several weaknesses that are visible and you're hoping he turns out good.

Shumpert Right Now is a SOLID NBA PLAYER. Even if he never gets a consistent jumper he will still be a SOLID NBA PLAYER on his defense and playmaking ability alone.

FoeDiddy
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1/8/2012  6:17 PM
Also I wasn't impressed with that guys highlights. All it was was some dunks vs. scrubs. Didn't see any defensive highlights
mrKnickShot
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1/8/2012  6:20 PM
I love the way he looks but for some reason he scares me into thinking that he is always close to a big injury - dunno why.
FoeDiddy
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1/8/2012  6:22 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:I love the way he looks but for some reason he scares me into thinking that he is always close to a big injury - dunno why.

I think it's the damn brace and the hope every time he winces it's not a re-injury to that knee. I felt that way about 3 times vs. the Pistons then he would go to the other end and catch a alley with ease.

nixluva
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1/8/2012  6:30 PM
Playing tough D is gonna actually save all of our players from injury due to stress. Getting big leads will allow more rest for the starters. Even last game some complained about the guys being in there late, but Shump only played 28 mins! So really playing hard actually will end up saving Shump from wearing down.
mrKnickShot
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1/8/2012  6:33 PM
FoeDiddy wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:I love the way he looks but for some reason he scares me into thinking that he is always close to a big injury - dunno why.

I think it's the damn brace and the hope every time he winces it's not a re-injury to that knee. I felt that way about 3 times vs. the Pistons then he would go to the other end and catch a alley with ease.

Haha - the brace does not help.

I guess it reminds me of DWade - I feel the same way about him. They are so athletic and can contort their bodies in such crazy ways which always makes you cringe that maybe they will come down wrong or something.

misterearl
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1/8/2012  6:55 PM
nixluva wrote:Playing tough D is gonna actually save all of our players from injury due to stress. Getting big leads will allow more rest for the starters. Even last game some complained about the guys being in there late, but Shump only played 28 mins! So really playing hard actually will end up saving Shump from wearing down.

Playing tough defense is also something that can be depended on more than shooting jumpers. The concern this condensed season is more for the inevitable injuries. The best thing about Shumpert's influence on Mike Bibby is that Bibby finally receibed some accurate passes in rhythm where he likes the ball. The result? Volia! All of a sudden Bibby is finding the range.

Amazing how that works.

Does Shumpert make the players around him better?

You damn skippy.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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1/9/2012  9:40 AM
Intuition and The Triangle

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/9251/opening-tip-the-knicks-three-man-game

1.) One example of this play occurred during the Knicks' first offensive possession against the Wizards -- Chandler set a perimeter pick for Iman Shumpert to give him room for the 3-pointer or the drive. While Shumpert was quickly (the operative word being "quickly") reading the situation, Chandler then set a back screen for Stoudemire, who was on the opposite wing, so he could drop through the lane and look for a pass from Shumpert for the short jumper or close-range easy two. During the well-run execution, Stoudemire missed an open jumpshot. In regards to this play, D'Antoni said last week he plans to use Stoudemire and Chandler together more in the same set, like he did last season with Stoudemire and Ronny Turiaf/Jared Jeffries.

2.) Two examples of this play unfolded against the Pistons, taking place with 4:27 remaining in the second quarter and 8:49 to go in the third, respectively -- During the first play, Anthony, who was on the perimeter, dumped the ball to Stoudemire on the high post. Then, Mike Bibby set a backscreen for Anthony, who received the pass from Stoudemire for the right-handed dunk. Before that happened, Chandler set a down screen for Landry Fields when Stoudemire caught the ball. So if Anthony was guarded tightly, Stoudemire could look for Fields as the second option on the wing for the 3-point shot, or he could face his defender and go one-on-one.

The second play was a mirror image of the first, just with two different players. This time, Shumpert dumped the ball to Chandler, Anthony set a back screen for Shumpert and Chandler served an alley-oop to Shumpert for the two-handed dunk. Stoudemire and Fields were on the opposite side to plan for a potential down-screen opportunity.

The Knicks' past two wins showed there's not as much What should we do? (ie Toney Douglas) going on. They're starting to develop a knack for getting right into their halfcourt sets and acting (Shumpert), more than reacting (Douglas). That speaks to their collective voice of change (to Shumpert) after devastating back-to-back losses last week to the Raptors and Bobcats.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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1/10/2012  8:06 AM
"Certainly, the 6-foot-5, 220-pound Shumpert is easy on the eyes. He scored 16 points with six rebounds and four assists, displaying the kind of instincts and aggression that made making him a starter an easy decision for coach Mike D’Antoni." - NYPost

“He’s just a big guard and he is playing with a lot of confidence and he is going to get a lot better,” D’Antoni said.

The contrast between Shumpert and Douglas is so severe that it is not fair to ToneyD to make any comparison. The boos are the frustration with caution.

Shumpert is a rare level of athlete who combines physical gifts, quick comprehension and a fierce will to win.

We are lucky to have him. Thank you Donnie Walsh.

once a knick always a knick
GustavBahler
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1/10/2012  9:46 AM
I'm hoping Shumpert will be the starting SG when Davis is starting at PG. Fields is playing hard but unfortunately can't change gears the way Shumpert does when a defender blocks his path. Fields can throw it down with authority if he has a clear path to the bucket, but if anyone gets between him and the rim, Fields has problems finishing. More often than not he can't. I like Fields and his old school smarts but I'm not seeing any real improvement in his game, not enough to justify keeping him as a starter.

I hope they aren't grooming Shumpert for PG. He can find a teammate in traffic while in motion, like a PG, but it doesn't mean
the Knicks should make Iman one. This team could use a starting backcourt with two play making guards.

blkexec
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1/10/2012  11:32 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  11:34 AM
GustavBahler wrote:I'm hoping Shumpert will be the starting SG when Davis is starting at PG. Fields is playing hard but unfortunately can't change gears the way Shumpert does when a defender blocks his path. Fields can throw it down with authority if he has a clear path to the bucket, but if anyone gets between him and the rim, Fields has problems finishing. More often than not he can't. I like Fields and his old school smarts but I'm not seeing any real improvement in his game, not enough to justify keeping him as a starter.

I hope they aren't grooming Shumpert for PG. He can find a teammate in traffic while in motion, like a PG, but it doesn't mean
the Knicks should make Iman one. This team could use a starting backcourt with two play making guards.

Both Iman and Davis can play PG/SG....I don't think its even a question between Shump and fields....I hope it's not a debate between Davis or Fields.

My only concern with starting Shump and Davis, is what happens when Fields and Douglas start stinking it up off the bench? Then either Shump or Davis will start logging major minutes, who are both injury prone right now.

It's obvious, we need to add some veterans to this bench.......There's too much of a drop off, on the offensive end, when you look at that bench. Outside of Bibby, who still needs somebody to create for him....
JJ, JJ, Jorts, Fields, Walker, Douglas, Lin, Balkman, Novak....

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
FoeDiddy
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1/10/2012  11:36 AM
blkexec wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I'm hoping Shumpert will be the starting SG when Davis is starting at PG. Fields is playing hard but unfortunately can't change gears the way Shumpert does when a defender blocks his path. Fields can throw it down with authority if he has a clear path to the bucket, but if anyone gets between him and the rim, Fields has problems finishing. More often than not he can't. I like Fields and his old school smarts but I'm not seeing any real improvement in his game, not enough to justify keeping him as a starter.

I hope they aren't grooming Shumpert for PG. He can find a teammate in traffic while in motion, like a PG, but it doesn't mean
the Knicks should make Iman one. This team could use a starting backcourt with two play making guards.

Both Iman and Davis can play PG/SG....I don't think its even a question between Shump and fields....I hope it's not a debate between Davis or Fields.

My only concern with starting Shump and Davis, is what happens when Fields and Douglas start stinking it up off the bench? Then either Shump or Davis will start logging major minutes, who are both injury prone right now.

It's obvious, we need to add some veterans to this bench.......There's too much of a drop off, on the offensive end, when you look at that bench. Outside of Bibby, who still needs somebody to create for him....
JJ, JJ, Jorts, Fields, Walker, Douglas, Lin, Balkman, Novak....

I think you fix this by running BD & Shump like you do Amare & Melo...one of each always stays on the floor...They start and they end games together but in between alternate their resting periods.

GustavBahler
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1/10/2012  1:45 PM
blkexec wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I'm hoping Shumpert will be the starting SG when Davis is starting at PG. Fields is playing hard but unfortunately can't change gears the way Shumpert does when a defender blocks his path. Fields can throw it down with authority if he has a clear path to the bucket, but if anyone gets between him and the rim, Fields has problems finishing. More often than not he can't. I like Fields and his old school smarts but I'm not seeing any real improvement in his game, not enough to justify keeping him as a starter.

I hope they aren't grooming Shumpert for PG. He can find a teammate in traffic while in motion, like a PG, but it doesn't mean
the Knicks should make Iman one. This team could use a starting backcourt with two play making guards.

Both Iman and Davis can play PG/SG....I don't think its even a question between Shump and fields....I hope it's not a debate between Davis or Fields.

My only concern with starting Shump and Davis, is what happens when Fields and Douglas start stinking it up off the bench? Then either Shump or Davis will start logging major minutes, who are both injury prone right now.

It's obvious, we need to add some veterans to this bench.......There's too much of a drop off, on the offensive end, when you look at that bench. Outside of Bibby, who still needs somebody to create for him....
JJ, JJ, Jorts, Fields, Walker, Douglas, Lin, Balkman, Novak....

Douglas is cratering, he might need some time off. I don't believe Fields will be taking any time from Davis unless he's hurt. I'd rather see how Fields responds to a benching but at this point it isn't a big problem. He is only in his second year, might take time for him to figure out his role. As long as Shumpert gets his PT, Fields starting for the first few minutes is no big deal in the regular season. If the playoffs come around and Shumpert is playing well enough to start over Fields then I hope he does, probably will be a tight rotation. Davis/Shumpert sounds like a nice backcourt in the playoffs if (like you said) they can stay healthy.

GustavBahler
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1/10/2012  1:45 PM
FoeDiddy wrote:
blkexec wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I'm hoping Shumpert will be the starting SG when Davis is starting at PG. Fields is playing hard but unfortunately can't change gears the way Shumpert does when a defender blocks his path. Fields can throw it down with authority if he has a clear path to the bucket, but if anyone gets between him and the rim, Fields has problems finishing. More often than not he can't. I like Fields and his old school smarts but I'm not seeing any real improvement in his game, not enough to justify keeping him as a starter.

I hope they aren't grooming Shumpert for PG. He can find a teammate in traffic while in motion, like a PG, but it doesn't mean
the Knicks should make Iman one. This team could use a starting backcourt with two play making guards.

Both Iman and Davis can play PG/SG....I don't think its even a question between Shump and fields....I hope it's not a debate between Davis or Fields.

My only concern with starting Shump and Davis, is what happens when Fields and Douglas start stinking it up off the bench? Then either Shump or Davis will start logging major minutes, who are both injury prone right now.

It's obvious, we need to add some veterans to this bench.......There's too much of a drop off, on the offensive end, when you look at that bench. Outside of Bibby, who still needs somebody to create for him....
JJ, JJ, Jorts, Fields, Walker, Douglas, Lin, Balkman, Novak....

I think you fix this by running BD & Shump like you do Amare & Melo...one of each always stays on the floor...They start and they end games together but in between alternate their resting periods.

Could work.

misterearl
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1/10/2012  11:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  11:23 PM
“We’ve been feeding off of him, feeding off his energy.” - Carmelo Anthony

“He has a high basketball I.Q., He knows the plays to make.” - Tyson Chandler

(Shumpert) had 14 assists in the last three games, second only to Anthony’s 17, and just 7 turnovers.

"A knee injury on opening day delayed Shumpert’s impact, and he is still regaining his strength and stamina. But his value is clear. Since returning Jan. 4, Shumpert has averaged 13.8 points, 4.3 assists, 4 rebounds and 2.8 steals in 32.5 minutes in four games. He shot 50 percent from the field during that stretch, including 37.5 from 3-point range."

- Howard Beck, NYT

once a knick always a knick
FrenchKnicks
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1/11/2012  5:11 AM
Just to clarify, I really dislike when a player takes the ball upcourt and shoots it directly. I've watched every games this season, and noticed that Shumpert has done that quite a bit. I hate when Melo does the same by the way, but at least he can shoot. Shumpert is not a very good shooter, so when he takes a shot first, that drives me crazy.

A guy who's not a scorer shouldn't be allowed to take those kind of shots. Hopefully that clears my statement about him.

nixluva
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1/11/2012  6:01 AM
FrenchKnicks wrote:Just to clarify, I really dislike when a player takes the ball upcourt and shoots it directly. I've watched every games this season, and noticed that Shumpert has done that quite a bit. I hate when Melo does the same by the way, but at least he can shoot. Shumpert is not a very good shooter, so when he takes a shot first, that drives me crazy.

A guy who's not a scorer shouldn't be allowed to take those kind of shots. Hopefully that clears my statement about him.

To be honest it's not the best play but lots of guards do it. This includes some of the best to play the game. Iman has actually hit those shots so it's not the end of the world. It's a really minor nitpick given how well he's played.

misterearl
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1/11/2012  7:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/11/2012  8:00 AM
FrenchKnicks wrote:Just to clarify, I really dislike when a player takes the ball upcourt and shoots it directly. I've watched every games this season, and noticed that Shumpert has done that quite a bit. I hate when Melo does the same by the way, but at least he can shoot. Shumpert is not a very good shooter, so when he takes a shot first, that drives me crazy.

A guy who's not a scorer shouldn't be allowed to take those kind of shots. Hopefully that clears my statement about him.

How much is "quite a bit"?

“It’s easier in the NBA because people can’t camp in the lane,” (Shumpert) said. “It’s easier to read what’s going on and we do a good job of spacing the floor.”

That does not read like a selfish player. So what if Shumpert pulls up and takes a couple of jumpers? Is it a forced shot? No. He is taking the shot in rhythm when he perceives an opening. If you notice, even his misses look good. Cool.

Shump MUST at least SHOW the ability to hit an outside shot, so defenders will be forced to respect him and NOT shade away to other players in limited space. That will only make it easier for him to blow by them, or hit the open man.

... it is MUCH better to have Shumpert pulling up for a j, than Stoudemire hoisting a three.

Why is Jared Jeffries always so open? Because teams know he cannot hit an outside shot. Ergo, the Knicks are running four on five (offensively) when he is on the floor. It puts more pressure on players who are more quickly double-teamed.

Diversity is good.

once a knick always a knick
FrenchKnicks
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1/11/2012  11:57 AM
misterearl wrote:“We’ve been feeding off of him, feeding off his energy.” - Carmelo Anthony

“He has a high basketball I.Q., He knows the plays to make.” - Tyson Chandler

(Shumpert) had 14 assists in the last three games, second only to Anthony’s 17, and just 7 turnovers.

"A knee injury on opening day delayed Shumpert’s impact, and he is still regaining his strength and stamina. But his value is clear. Since returning Jan. 4, Shumpert has averaged 13.8 points, 4.3 assists, 4 rebounds and 2.8 steals in 32.5 minutes in four games. He shot 50 percent from the field during that stretch, including 37.5 from 3-point range."

- Howard Beck, NYT

"Knicks fans have engaged in their share of irrational love affairs in recent years, falling for undisciplined exuberance (Nate Robinson), unbridled athleticism (Renaldo Balkman) and plucky overachievement (Landry Fields), only for their hearts to be crushed."

- Howard Beck, NYT

just saying...

Shumpert For Life

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