Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

nixluva wrote:Every coach has his criteria for when he feels a rookie should play. We know that Hill came in out of shape and that it took a while for him to learn the kind of effort level and determination it takes to play in the NBA. With all of the turmoil that was taking place after the slow start and then subsequent period of decent BB where the team went 12-6 and .500 over a 2 month period, it's not hard to understand that a coach would not want to spend time force feeding a rookie minutes. Why this concept is hard to understand I don't know. Even tho Duhon was playing poorly, a coach has a longer leash due to the fact that the vet has a track record and a rookie doesn't. The same goes for the Vet bigs ahead of Hill. Rookies tend to be unpredictable and mistake prone save for the few STUDS that play great from day one. Tho some may disagree with MDA's decision to sit Hill and TD it's not unreasonable to understand why he might do so when you look at the real factors involved.

Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Every coach has his criteria for when he feels a rookie should play. We know that Hill came in out of shape and that it took a while for him to learn the kind of effort level and determination it takes to play in the NBA. With all of the turmoil that was taking place after the slow start and then subsequent period of decent BB where the team went 12-6 and .500 over a 2 month period, it's not hard to understand that a coach would not want to spend time force feeding a rookie minutes. Why this concept is hard to understand I don't know. Even tho Duhon was playing poorly, a coach has a longer leash due to the fact that the vet has a track record and a rookie doesn't. The same goes for the Vet bigs ahead of Hill. Rookies tend to be unpredictable and mistake prone save for the few STUDS that play great from day one. Tho some may disagree with MDA's decision to sit Hill and TD it's not unreasonable to understand why he might do so when you look at the real factors involved.

Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

I agree that if players aren't ready giving them playing time isn't going to magically make them improve but it might and usually does. Players generally get better when they are given a consistent opportunity to fill a role on a team. It also wouldn't hurt them even if they for some reason didn't get better. Hill went to Houston with Jeffries and got more minutes than Jared and the Rockets were competing for a playoff spot. Once Douglas was given consistent minutes he played very well. Not giving guys a chance to develop with at least limited minutes on a team that isn't competitive doesn't make sense. When that team is giving the minutes to very limited veterans who were not going to be a part of the future the lack of an attempt to give the first round picks some minutes cannot be excused in my opinion.

There was no lack of an attempt to give guys a shot. You keep forgetting that Hill didn't do the basic things to earn his chance. No player is promised playing time. Rookies especially have to learn this so that they understand the proper attitude towards playing. You have to go hard and give 110% and prove to the coach you should play. You don't come in out of shape to SL and then in the season you don't go hard. The staff had to keep talking to him about giving more effort in practice.

January 9, 2010 ι By MARC BERMAN
HOUSTON – Where does Mr. Lotto pick, Jordan Hill stand? Behind undrafted Marcus Landry, that's been made clear.
In another indictment on how far Hill has fallen off the radar, Mike D'Antoni will go with the undrafted rookie free agent, Marcus Landry tonight vs. the Rockets, with a spot open in the rotation because of Al Harrington's calf injury.
It's long been known how much the coaching staff adores Landry's grit and intelligence on the court, even though nobody truly knows his position. He's some kind of forward hybrid. But that Landry, whose played in the last three games, is higher on the depth chart than Hill speaks volumes.
Beyond the notion he is something of a project, Hill simply has not worked hard enough in practice, from all appearances. And to his credit, D'Antoni is not favoring Hill because he was selected eighth overall in the draft by Donnie Walsh. (Sources have indicated D'Antoni was surprised the college scouts had Hill so high on the board – as second-best big behind Blake Griffin).
"They don't have numbers on their back, how much they get paid,'' D'Antoni said. "That kid (Landry) right there is working a little bit harder and deserves to play. Jordan is working hard but Marcus has been extraordinary.''
"I like the toughness he brings,'' D'Antoni added. "He's an intelligent player on the floor. I want to look at him too.
Tonight, Marcus likely will face his brother, Carl Landry, whose been getting major reviews as a budding All-Star. As for Marcus rated ahead of Jordan, D'Antoni said,
"Carl Landry was a second-round pick and he is one of the best players in the league right now,'' D'Antoni said. "After a certain point, it doesn't matter where they were chosen. Because of his work ethic and how he's practiced, he's got a nod over most guys. But Jordan's close.''
D'Antoni said he thinks Hill will play "sooner than later'' and put off talk about sending him to their D-League affiliate in Springfield. The Knicks have never used the D-League and that's not something to be proud of because they've missed opportunities. Walsh, an old-schooler, never used the D-League in Indiana either.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/lottery_pick_hill_sits_behind_undrafted_JHYZmZ6xxQkJASZOVIBTwK#ixzz1UVmuoldA

First off whats up with this?

He doesn't know what he means. He just throws crap against the wall to see if it sticks. There's no point to saying Walsh made trades to protect MDA.

Final Grade: F

http://knickerblogger.net/2010-report-card-mike-dantoni/

As far as the Berman article you posted it was refuted later that week.

Despite reports about Jordan Hill’s questionable work ethic, many people who have been around the Knicks during practices and workouts, including Tommy Dee, continue to call his work ethic an attribute as opposed to a flaw.Big men need time to develop, and the ones that don’t develop end up like Hilton Armstrong or Sean Williams, guys who came into the league raw and stayed that way. Whether it be a weak work ethic, a lack of coaching, or both, it’s harder for big men to adjust to the big leagues than guards.

Watch any clip of a Knicks practice, and you will see Jordan Hill in the background working with Herb Williams on his post moves. He started playing basketball his junior year of high school, and came into college an unpolished, no-name, skinny 6’10 big man. He left one of the best big men in college basketball. Check the stats. Every year, Hill improved at Arizona. That was through coaching changes, teammate changes, and Nic Wise as his point guard.

Hasheem Thabeet is raw, Al Jefferson was raw, Derrick Favors, Greg Monroe, and Cole Aldrich will struggle when they come into the league. Rarely, you get a four year guy like Roy Hibbert who comes in as a polished player, but he lacks athleticism or speed. Hill showed tonight that he has the skills. If he continues to work and play, and after tonight, believe me, he will, he’ll be fine.

D'Antoni at times was defensive and smug when asked about his handling of Jordan Hill. I am not sure why Hill didn't get minutes but his handling of Hill and his later statements about him are areas where I think he was minimally a disappointment as the coach of a rebuilding team.

KnicksFE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Every coach has his criteria for when he feels a rookie should play. We know that Hill came in out of shape and that it took a while for him to learn the kind of effort level and determination it takes to play in the NBA. With all of the turmoil that was taking place after the slow start and then subsequent period of decent BB where the team went 12-6 and .500 over a 2 month period, it's not hard to understand that a coach would not want to spend time force feeding a rookie minutes. Why this concept is hard to understand I don't know. Even tho Duhon was playing poorly, a coach has a longer leash due to the fact that the vet has a track record and a rookie doesn't. The same goes for the Vet bigs ahead of Hill. Rookies tend to be unpredictable and mistake prone save for the few STUDS that play great from day one. Tho some may disagree with MDA's decision to sit Hill and TD it's not unreasonable to understand why he might do so when you look at the real factors involved.

Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

I agree that if players aren't ready giving them playing time isn't going to magically make them improve but it might and usually does. Players generally get better when they are given a consistent opportunity to fill a role on a team. It also wouldn't hurt them even if they for some reason didn't get better. Hill went to Houston with Jeffries and got more minutes than Jared and the Rockets were competing for a playoff spot. Once Douglas was given consistent minutes he played very well. Not giving guys a chance to develop with at least limited minutes on a team that isn't competitive doesn't make sense. When that team is giving the minutes to very limited veterans who were not going to be a part of the future the lack of an attempt to give the first round picks some minutes cannot be excused in my opinion.

Most players when given minutes will put up some kind of stats, but it doesn’t mean that they are better players, just look at Anthony Randolph (a player who I still like and way more skill than Hill) he got more minutes in Minnesota, yet his team was just as bad, if not worse.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Every coach has his criteria for when he feels a rookie should play. We know that Hill came in out of shape and that it took a while for him to learn the kind of effort level and determination it takes to play in the NBA. With all of the turmoil that was taking place after the slow start and then subsequent period of decent BB where the team went 12-6 and .500 over a 2 month period, it's not hard to understand that a coach would not want to spend time force feeding a rookie minutes. Why this concept is hard to understand I don't know. Even tho Duhon was playing poorly, a coach has a longer leash due to the fact that the vet has a track record and a rookie doesn't. The same goes for the Vet bigs ahead of Hill. Rookies tend to be unpredictable and mistake prone save for the few STUDS that play great from day one. Tho some may disagree with MDA's decision to sit Hill and TD it's not unreasonable to understand why he might do so when you look at the real factors involved.

Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

I agree that if players aren't ready giving them playing time isn't going to magically make them improve but it might and usually does. Players generally get better when they are given a consistent opportunity to fill a role on a team. It also wouldn't hurt them even if they for some reason didn't get better. Hill went to Houston with Jeffries and got more minutes than Jared and the Rockets were competing for a playoff spot. Once Douglas was given consistent minutes he played very well. Not giving guys a chance to develop with at least limited minutes on a team that isn't competitive doesn't make sense. When that team is giving the minutes to very limited veterans who were not going to be a part of the future the lack of an attempt to give the first round picks some minutes cannot be excused in my opinion.

Ok, Hill got to play more minutes than Jeffrey and what was actually accomplished by the Rockets?
Did they made the playoff that year?
What about the following year?
Did Hill develop a little bit more?
Is he a least more consistent with his game?
The answer to those questions is NO and considering that the Rockets don’t have a starting center, is very disappointed.

You see, I do not have a problem with you criticizing MDA if he is wrong, that’s fine with me; my problem is you using Hill as an example when in fact Hill has done nothing since he came to the NBA. And remember Hill was also coached by Rick Adelman in Houston, who I consider a really good coach and Hill’s minutes were still limited over there too. So if you are going to critize MDA, please pick another example, cause Hill is not a good one.

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Every coach has his criteria for when he feels a rookie should play. We know that Hill came in out of shape and that it took a while for him to learn the kind of effort level and determination it takes to play in the NBA. With all of the turmoil that was taking place after the slow start and then subsequent period of decent BB where the team went 12-6 and .500 over a 2 month period, it's not hard to understand that a coach would not want to spend time force feeding a rookie minutes. Why this concept is hard to understand I don't know. Even tho Duhon was playing poorly, a coach has a longer leash due to the fact that the vet has a track record and a rookie doesn't. The same goes for the Vet bigs ahead of Hill. Rookies tend to be unpredictable and mistake prone save for the few STUDS that play great from day one. Tho some may disagree with MDA's decision to sit Hill and TD it's not unreasonable to understand why he might do so when you look at the real factors involved.

Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

I agree that if players aren't ready giving them playing time isn't going to magically make them improve but it might and usually does. Players generally get better when they are given a consistent opportunity to fill a role on a team. It also wouldn't hurt them even if they for some reason didn't get better. Hill went to Houston with Jeffries and got more minutes than Jared and the Rockets were competing for a playoff spot. Once Douglas was given consistent minutes he played very well. Not giving guys a chance to develop with at least limited minutes on a team that isn't competitive doesn't make sense. When that team is giving the minutes to very limited veterans who were not going to be a part of the future the lack of an attempt to give the first round picks some minutes cannot be excused in my opinion.

Ok, Hill got to play more minutes than Jeffrey and what was actually accomplished by the Rockets?
Did they made the playoff that year?
What about the following year?
Did Hill develop a little bit more?
Is he a least more consistent with his game?
The answer to those questions is NO and considering that the Rockets don’t have a starting center, is very disappointed.

You see, I do not have a problem with you criticizing MDA if he is wrong, that’s fine with me; my problem is you using Hill as an example when in fact Hill has done nothing since he came to the NBA. And remember Hill was also coached by Rick Adelman in Houston, who I consider a really good coach and Hill’s minutes were still limited over there too. So if you are going to critize MDA, please pick another example, cause Hill is not a good one.

I guess I have to ask you when do you play your lottery pick if you can't give him any minutes on a 29 win team? Also, Adelman did choose to play Hill more than Jeffries and the Rockets were trying to make the playoffs. I don't think you can just dismiss that. As far as what players turn out to be I think time will tell. There are articles praising Hill's work ethic and I have read articles about the Rockets where teammates spoke highly of him. If you think D'Antoni took the right approach in developing his rookies in 09-10 on a 29 win team by not giving them minutes and playing Jeffries and Duhon major minutes I don't think we will ever agree on this matter.

As far as Jordan Hill being selected in the lottery, this was more about the Knicks making a mistake than actually Hill being that good, considering that other players chosen after him, (DeMar DeRozan, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Taj Gibson, Jeff Teague, Toney Douglas, Marcus Thornton) have shown already more promise in the NBA.

As far as articles, don’t believe everything you read my friend, I have also read articles were Jordan Hill has being criticize for his lack of effort. See below.

http://blog.chron.com/nba/2011/01/jordan-hill-rockets-bounce-back-big-time-but-can-they-make-it-last/

Jordan Hill, Rockets bounce back big-time, but can they make it last?
If Rick Adelman had given up on Jordan Hill, at least until the next big-man injury, no one could have blamed him.
Hill was invisible for two games, both bad homecourt losses. He had no points and one rebound in one game; no points and no rebounds in the other. He had been terrific in the second half in Boston, but in the two games since, he stood around on the perimeter and generally watched other people play basketball.Given a chance to win the job when Chuck Hayes – a player with nowhere near Hill’s physical abilities — went out, Hill could make no case that he should be the starter.

Adelman did bench Hill for the second half against the Hornets, but by Saturday, Hill was right back in the rotation.
In the most stunning turnaround of many on Saturday, Hill was outstanding again, putting up perhaps his best, most vital performance of the season.

“Unbelievable,” Adelman said after Hill gave him a career-high 16 points on 8 of 12 shooting with eight rebounds. “That’s what we need out of him. He rebounded tonight. He made shots around the basket. It just makes a world of difference for us when we get that production.”
Hill cannot continue this way, of course. Teams cannot win consistently if key rotation players go from strong to invisible. And young players rarely develop by being rewarded for poor play. But he does not have to do anything beyond his capabilities. If he plays hard and with intensity, his abilities will take over.
Hill has done this throughout the season, most obviously when he was phenomenal down the stretch in Sacramento then disappeared two games later in Los Angeles. But he has so much potential that he might test Adelman’s apparently boundless patience and then still get more playing time.
Once again, he did seem to figure things out.
“When you’re on the floor, you just have to give it your all,” Hill said of his turnaround. “I thought about it. I knew I wasn’t playing the way I was supposed to be playing the last couple of games. But you know, it (Atlanta) is home. It is a game we need.

“Coach felt he needed to sit me. Unfortunately, we came up with the loss, but coach is going to do what he feels he needs to do to help the team win. I accept that.“I’m going to have bad nights and good nights. If I can get myself rolling, I feel more energy to do what I have to do to help my team.”
Everyone has ups and downs, but the swings cannot be this extreme. For Hill, the production might vary but the energy has to be there every night. That has to be his game. If it is, he could develop the defensive awareness and focus that he needs.
“He’s got to pay attention defensively,” Adelman said. “He has to recognize what teams are running. You don’t see a lot of different things. Guys have to talk to him and try to help him. And I really look for the boards. He’s got to get to the boards and he hasn’t been doing that. We need his athleticism, but we need him to be consistent with it.
“We need consistency. All three of those guys are probably going to get an opportunity, but we need to get something out of them. Hopefully, we’ll get more production out of the guys when we put them in.”No one else on the Rockets can provide the sort of game Hill can. He is the only Rockets big man that can play above the rim, the only potential shot-blocker. He can run the floor on a team that must. He can finish in the low blocks.
It was already clear that he is able to do all those things. The key is doing it regularly enough to earn regular playing time. With a taste of success, the Rockets can hope a light goes on. If it does, Hill might be able to help in the season’s second half as much as he did on Saturday.

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Every coach has his criteria for when he feels a rookie should play. We know that Hill came in out of shape and that it took a while for him to learn the kind of effort level and determination it takes to play in the NBA. With all of the turmoil that was taking place after the slow start and then subsequent period of decent BB where the team went 12-6 and .500 over a 2 month period, it's not hard to understand that a coach would not want to spend time force feeding a rookie minutes. Why this concept is hard to understand I don't know. Even tho Duhon was playing poorly, a coach has a longer leash due to the fact that the vet has a track record and a rookie doesn't. The same goes for the Vet bigs ahead of Hill. Rookies tend to be unpredictable and mistake prone save for the few STUDS that play great from day one. Tho some may disagree with MDA's decision to sit Hill and TD it's not unreasonable to understand why he might do so when you look at the real factors involved.

Sure MDA could've played the kids more, but it's a mistake to assume that playing in real games translates in to player growth. Most players improve most thru hard work in the summer and in practice sessions. Eventually they have to play in games to acclimate to that level of play, but if they aren't ready it's not always going to magically happen just cuz they play more in real games. Timo got a chance to start games, but he wasn't ready and he soon got overwhelmed. When Hill finally did play he ended up fading over the course of the regular season. It didn't lead to him bustin out and becoming a much better player. He still needs work, which will come in the summer when he can spend more time working on his game. That's when most players do most of their improving.

I agree that if players aren't ready giving them playing time isn't going to magically make them improve but it might and usually does. Players generally get better when they are given a consistent opportunity to fill a role on a team. It also wouldn't hurt them even if they for some reason didn't get better. Hill went to Houston with Jeffries and got more minutes than Jared and the Rockets were competing for a playoff spot. Once Douglas was given consistent minutes he played very well. Not giving guys a chance to develop with at least limited minutes on a team that isn't competitive doesn't make sense. When that team is giving the minutes to very limited veterans who were not going to be a part of the future the lack of an attempt to give the first round picks some minutes cannot be excused in my opinion.

Ok, Hill got to play more minutes than Jeffrey and what was actually accomplished by the Rockets?
Did they made the playoff that year?
What about the following year?
Did Hill develop a little bit more?
Is he a least more consistent with his game?
The answer to those questions is NO and considering that the Rockets don’t have a starting center, is very disappointed.

You see, I do not have a problem with you criticizing MDA if he is wrong, that’s fine with me; my problem is you using Hill as an example when in fact Hill has done nothing since he came to the NBA. And remember Hill was also coached by Rick Adelman in Houston, who I consider a really good coach and Hill’s minutes were still limited over there too. So if you are going to critize MDA, please pick another example, cause Hill is not a good one.

I guess I have to ask you when do you play your lottery pick if you can't give him any minutes on a 29 win team? Also, Adelman did choose to play Hill more than Jeffries and the Rockets were trying to make the playoffs. I don't think you can just dismiss that. As far as what players turn out to be I think time will tell. There are articles praising Hill's work ethic and I have read articles about the Rockets where teammates spoke highly of him. If you think D'Antoni took the right approach in developing his rookies in 09-10 on a 29 win team by not giving them minutes and playing Jeffries and Duhon major minutes I don't think we will ever agree on this matter.

It doesn’t matter if you are selected on the lottery or not, Landry Field was a second rounder and he played major minutes under MDA, even ahead of veteran player like Roger Mason Jr. So in a way, is your game, practice habits and commitment to the game that dictate your playing time.

As far as Jordan Hill being selected in the lottery, this was more about the Knicks making a mistake than actually Hill being that good, considering that other players chosen after him, (DeMar DeRozan, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Eric Maynor, Taj Gibson, Jeff Teague, Toney Douglas, Marcus Thornton) have shown already more promise in the NBA.

As far as articles, don’t believe everything you read my friend, I have also read articles were Jordan Hill has being criticize for his lack of effort. See below.

http://blog.chron.com/nba/2011/01/jordan-hill-rockets-bounce-back-big-time-but-can-they-make-it-last/

Jordan Hill, Rockets bounce back big-time, but can they make it last?
If Rick Adelman had given up on Jordan Hill, at least until the next big-man injury, no one could have blamed him.
Hill was invisible for two games, both bad homecourt losses. He had no points and one rebound in one game; no points and no rebounds in the other. He had been terrific in the second half in Boston, but in the two games since, he stood around on the perimeter and generally watched other people play basketball.Given a chance to win the job when Chuck Hayes – a player with nowhere near Hill’s physical abilities — went out, Hill could make no case that he should be the starter.

Adelman did bench Hill for the second half against the Hornets, but by Saturday, Hill was right back in the rotation.
In the most stunning turnaround of many on Saturday, Hill was outstanding again, putting up perhaps his best, most vital performance of the season.

“Unbelievable,” Adelman said after Hill gave him a career-high 16 points on 8 of 12 shooting with eight rebounds. “That’s what we need out of him. He rebounded tonight. He made shots around the basket. It just makes a world of difference for us when we get that production.”
Hill cannot continue this way, of course. Teams cannot win consistently if key rotation players go from strong to invisible. And young players rarely develop by being rewarded for poor play. But he does not have to do anything beyond his capabilities. If he plays hard and with intensity, his abilities will take over.
Hill has done this throughout the season, most obviously when he was phenomenal down the stretch in Sacramento then disappeared two games later in Los Angeles. But he has so much potential that he might test Adelman’s apparently boundless patience and then still get more playing time.
Once again, he did seem to figure things out.
“When you’re on the floor, you just have to give it your all,” Hill said of his turnaround. “I thought about it. I knew I wasn’t playing the way I was supposed to be playing the last couple of games. But you know, it (Atlanta) is home. It is a game we need.

“Coach felt he needed to sit me. Unfortunately, we came up with the loss, but coach is going to do what he feels he needs to do to help the team win. I accept that.“I’m going to have bad nights and good nights. If I can get myself rolling, I feel more energy to do what I have to do to help my team.”
Everyone has ups and downs, but the swings cannot be this extreme. For Hill, the production might vary but the energy has to be there every night. That has to be his game. If it is, he could develop the defensive awareness and focus that he needs.
“He’s got to pay attention defensively,” Adelman said. “He has to recognize what teams are running. You don’t see a lot of different things. Guys have to talk to him and try to help him. And I really look for the boards. He’s got to get to the boards and he hasn’t been doing that. We need his athleticism, but we need him to be consistent with it.
“We need consistency. All three of those guys are probably going to get an opportunity, but we need to get something out of them. Hopefully, we’ll get more production out of the guys when we put them in.”No one else on the Rockets can provide the sort of game Hill can. He is the only Rockets big man that can play above the rim, the only potential shot-blocker. He can run the floor on a team that must. He can finish in the low blocks.
It was already clear that he is able to do all those things. The key is doing it regularly enough to earn regular playing time. With a taste of success, the Rockets can hope a light goes on. If it does, Hill might be able to help in the season’s second half as much as he did on Saturday.

Does this mean that Jordan Hill's learning curve was so great that the Knicks couldn't chance putting their lottery pick on the floor for a few minutes a game on a 29 win team desperate for height, rebounding and shotblocking? Hill has always been talked about as a guy that had only played the game for a few years but was naturally talented and would develop into a player. Player development did not occur for him while in NY. When he got to Houston Shane Battier said it was like he had lost a year of development. Here are a couple of other notes on Hill last year:

Hill winning battle to overcome off-court problems
Teammates, Rockets staff see positive changes in young player
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2011 Houston Chronicle
March 26, 2011, 12:25AM

Billy Smith II Chronicle
Rockets center-forward Jordan Hill, left, has had to overcome a lot of off-court problems.

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Jordan Hill happily launched shots from beyond the baseline to a midcourt basket 50 feet away, laughing when he came close and missed, laughing louder when his attempts failed to connect with anything other than the wall surrounding the Toyota Center practice court.

The shot will never come up in a game, when there are no baskets stationed in the positions added for practices, but for Hill and the Rockets, there was little that could be as meaningful as his silly, joyful exercise.

It was childlike, like so many young athletes with big dreams taking a last few heaves before they leave the playgrounds. More than that, it was carefree, as if he was no longer weighed down by the burdens of responsibility and expectations and demands.

It was what he needed.

"I was having problems," Hill, 23, said of his improved play and focus. "I've overcome those problems, tried to focus on basketball while I'm on the court, stay mentally ready to go out and play."

Hill, a 6-10 center-forward, has been ambiguous about the problems, even with those he has credited for helping him through them. But he has said he has dealt with family and friends expecting his financial support and demanding more than he has given.

"Man, everything, you name it, it's what I deal with," Hill said. "It's just being in the league, the NBA, coming from nothing, becoming something. People will have their thoughts and feelings about you. It can be anybody, friends, family. It's going to hurt.

"It's wanting what I have. I never thought it would happen to me from the people that I'm really close to."

When it did, Hill's mood deteriorated, his focus slipped and his play declined to the point he was out of the rotation. Teammates and coaches noticed even before he took the floor and struggled. He welcomed their counsel but knew it could go only so far.

"You can tell when he's down," said forward Chase Budinger, Hill's teammate for three seasons at Arizona. "I can tell when he's having a tough week. That's when I try to take him to lunch, just talk, not about basketball, not about anything, just talk about life and things like that. I think it helps him out.

Turbulent family life
"He has a lot of family pressure, a lot of outside influences that get to him. It's tough for him. He came from nothing and made it big. He has a lot of family pressure. He's such a nice kid, it's tough for him to tell people 'no.' I feel for him. He wants to help everybody out, but sometimes it gets to the point you just can't. It's tough to say no to people close to you."

Hill has long dealt with such challenges. His mother, Carol, died of breast cancer when he was 3 years old. With his relationship with his father often rocky, he and his three older siblings were raised by his grandmother, though he had six primary caregivers before finishing high school in South Carolina and moving to one year at a prep school.

"Family has always been most important for him," said Rockets director of player development Shawn Respert. "You are talking about a young man who lost his mom at an early age, who is starting to patch up a relationship with his father and who has two kids he's trying to raise. That's a lot for a young man.

"Now, he's not worried about some things. He has things pointed in the right direction."

Finding his role
Hill, in his second year after he was the eighth pick of the 2009 NBA draft, is getting only sporadic playing time. With the Warriors using small lineups, Hill did not play Wednesday until the last two minutes of a Rockets rout. In his previous four games, all Rockets wins, he averaged 7.5 points and 6.8 rebounds in an average of 16.5 minutes.

In recent games, Hill has stayed inside, where his length and athleticism can be put to better use. With greater focus has come intensity and energy.

"I'm trying to focus on trying to get every rebound, alter or block any shots that come to the rim, just be a high-energy guy," Hill said. "I'm the only person on the team that can do the things I do, so that's what they need from me."

To do that, he has had to get a grip on what others want from him. But after struggling through most of his two NBA seasons, Hill has found that the game not only can be an escape from other problems, but it must be.

"I just go out there to have fun, play my game, just shake everything off," Hill said. "It's been such a problem since I've been in the league. It really took me hard. You just need to go through that, I guess.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/7492061.html#ixzz1UYb3LrLy

Nod to Hill
With Jordan Hill, Brad Miller and Patrick Patterson active at the same time for the first time since Jan. 3, coach Rick Adelman said he likely will give the most minutes to Miller and Hill.

Patterson had moved ahead of Hill in the rotation last month before Hill's ankle injury Feb. 1 in Los Angeles.
"I honestly think if Jordan is playing and giving what he can give us, he really helps," Adelman said. "He's athletic and can rebound. I'd probably give the first look to him. He's looked good in practice. He's looked healthy."

Hill had been playing against centers when Miller was out but matched up with Dirk Nowitzki and Shawn Marion on Saturday

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/7425215.html#ixzz1UYd6DwCj

This means that there is also another NBA coach Rick Adelman, who happens to agree with MDA regarding Hill’s weakness as a player and decided to move rookie Patterson ahead of Hill in the rotation. Even before Hill's ankle injury in February 1st, this is posted on your article above.

Sure Jordan Hill is talented; you got to have some kind of talent to get to the NBA, no disagreements there, but you also have to ask yourself why his minutes decrease as the season progressed? Including 10 minutes per game average in the months of March and April of last season.
Or why rookie Patterso had move ahead of him on the rotation? Meaning he wasn't even the first big man coming off the bench WHY?

nixluva wrote:I think there is just a tendency to want to use Hill as the poster boy for bashing MDA as a coach. They try to do the same with AR. They use the negative statements from the vets who didn't get the playing time they wanted and complained that MDA didn't talk to them. I think all of this may have some merit, but you can't look only at the negative stuff and ignore the more numerous players who have improved under MDA over the years. He took Diaw off the scrap heap and gave him a role that highlighted his talents and showed he could be a very useful NBA player. More Knick kids have developed under MDA when they put forth the effort. Gallo, Chan, Fields, Williams, TD and even Walker have shown growth. If he stayed I think Timo would've come along. MDA isn't perfect, but I think some take this point a bit too far.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think there is just a tendency to want to use Hill as the poster boy for bashing MDA as a coach. They try to do the same with AR. They use the negative statements from the vets who didn't get the playing time they wanted and complained that MDA didn't talk to them. I think all of this may have some merit, but you can't look only at the negative stuff and ignore the more numerous players who have improved under MDA over the years. He took Diaw off the scrap heap and gave him a role that highlighted his talents and showed he could be a very useful NBA player. More Knick kids have developed under MDA when they put forth the effort. Gallo, Chan, Fields, Williams, TD and even Walker have shown growth. If he stayed I think Timo would've come along. MDA isn't perfect, but I think some take this point a bit too far.

I think a big part of the point of this thread was that on a 29 win team competing for nothing the coach was unable to find even token minutes for his two first round picks. The number of dnps both Douglas and Hill got while the team lost at an incredibly high rate with marginal vets playing major minutes is inexcusable in my opinion. I could link to a boat load of articles that criticize D'Antoni for how poorly he handled his rookies that year. I am sure some of those writers have a bias but that isn't the case for all of them. As far as Randolph is concerned there were some on this forum who suggested that he might never get a chance in NY playing for D'Antoni shortly after the trade happened. After the Milan game it appeared apparent that he was never going to be given a chance in NY. How a 21 year old goes from a lottery pick with a ton of talent to the last man off the bench, even after old man Rautins, to a guy who goes for 19.8 pts, 6.6 rebs, 1 blk a game, and shoots 53% from the field in 29 minutes for the final 5 games of the season for another team. How do you let that happen.
What has happened the past two years with this coach is that his team comes out of training camp and loses a lot. There is some experimentation with minutes and the rotation and then he seems to pick a core group of guys and everyone else is to an extent forgotten about. He appears to sour on big guys pretty quick. The traditional bigs he has had, Hill, Darko, Moz, Randolph all stopped receiving consistent minutes and started receiving dnps early on in the season. Starting December 8th Moz had 19 dnps over the course of 24 games and played a total of 19 minutes during that period. Mozgov blew up when D'Antoni had to use him because Chandler was out. However, I don't know when or if he would have made it back if it wasn't for his huge game when D'Antoni had to put him in.

I just don't see why you think these examples are legitimate. These are projects we're talking about not sure thing players. If anything the poor showings these players had up to that point only underscore why they didn't play more for this coach. Also you keep bringing up DNP's as if it's unusual for a rookie to get a DNP. Unless that young player is a stud it's not that unusual for a coach to let the kid ride the bench. Still in all of this MDA STARTED 2 rookies!!! So how does your argument hold up when that is the case?

You can't bash MDA for not playing Timo when he started the kid in the 1st place. It's a coaches prerogative on who plays and who doesn't. You seem to think that kids should be guaranteed minutes no matter what and that's not the case. MDA has a certain standard he holds his kids up to. If you're a young player you need to come in hungry and giving 110% if you want to play for MDA. You need to stay ready whether you play or not. What happens if you do that? You can end up being Shawne Williams who kept his mouth shut and kept working and now is a valued part of the rotation. You may be overlooking one of MDA's methods for developing his young players. Maybe he feels everything shouldn't come easy. maybe he wants to see a kid go hard every second of ever minute he's on the floor like Fields did.

Said this about AR and it could well have been applied to Hill or Darko to varying degrees:

“He should go on the floor and have three blocks, five rebounds, get to the line three times, have two dunks and when he comes out he only played five minutes and you go, ‘Whoa, look at that!’ Then he goes to seven minutes and then to 10 minutes. He has to have so much energy that he’s changing the game.”

However, Randolph’s talent has never really been in question. His biggest problem in the NBA, other than staying healthy, has been figuring out how to put all of his talents together — he fell in love with his barely-adequate jumper in Golden State, and it often seemed like he goes out on the court with no real idea of what he was supposed to do when he got out there.

November 18, 2010 ι By MARC BERMAN
SACRAMENTO – Mike D'Antoni made the bold move tonight in Sacramento, giving Anthony Randolph his first DNP as a Knick.
It was not the politically correct move with Knicks brass which regards Randolph as an intriguing prospect. But it was long overdue. If the Knicks weren't playing at Golden State Friday night, Randolph assuredly would be a DNP again, coming off tonight's huge, streak-busting 113-106 win over the Kings with a Randolph-less rotation.

Randolph paid careful attention during his first Knicks media training class, but has been a disappointment on the court since the start of preseason and has been given limited minutes - 11.1 per game, shooting 27.6 percent.
There's been too many mistakes, not enough rebounds, blocked shots or accurate jump shots. He's more apt to shoot an airball from 20 feet than sink it. Turnovers have been an issue.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/antoni_takes_the_leap_benches_randolph_MSlv5aWUqk6JGkmrcqHu9H#ixzz1Ubm3D5Gv