Paladin55 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:You know I've long debated how I should feel about violence but one thing we should keep in mind is that the universe thrives on violence. All life depends on the death of something else. When resources get tight men will fight to survive by claiming those resources. We have societies that are struggling to buck the natural state of things by finding peaceful ways to coexist but it's not the nature of things.

Colonists came here to North America and supplanted the native populations. That has happened over and over thru history. I don't know if man will ever achieve the peace they seek.

Nix, I have grown to respect your posts over time and I agree with what you stated. In fact to be completely honest I don't even know exactly how I feel about this. I think the first and strongets emotion was that of relief, that the world and more selfishly the people of my beloved New York can sleep better at night knowing this monster was dead. But there was also a tinge of sadness over the fact that his wife and possibly his children had to see him being killed in a manner deemed too violent for public viewing. And there is a good deal of revulsion in seeing people throw parties to celebrate his death that in my opinion is reprehensible. But, over time as the story unfolds I am sure I will end up feeling differently as I try to mix rational thought with the initial knee-jerk responses.

Do you think his children or wives ever confronted him about the people he was responsible for killing, and his "method" of achieving change? Do you think they ever thought about the father of a kid in my school who was on the phone with his wife when the first jet hit, or the kid from my school who died in the 9/11 attack?

His type has been marginalized by the energy, determination, and self-sacrifice of those who are part of what people are now calling the "Arab Spring." This movement has accomplished more in a few months than bin Laden even dreamed about doing.

I'm not a violent person, but I'm pretty sure I would have pulled the trigger on this guy without a second thought.

Thank you.

Some of the moral posturing in this thread is a little over the top. Its not like this was some questionable call, karma finally caught up with Bin Laden.

As far as his family goes, below is a quote from Bin Laden after Safiyah was born:
http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/05/bin-ladens-young-daughter-saw-him-killed-does-she-share-his-beliefs/

"I became a father of a girl after September 11," he said. "I named her after Safiyah who killed a Jewish spy at the time of the Prophet. [My daughter] will kill enemies of Islam like Safiyah."

Make of it what you will, but I would be wary of reacting to stories about him being executed in front of the family. The Bin Ladens do have an agenda and everything they do is for a reason. The Hijackers were all from Saudi Arabia in order to exert pressure on the relationship between the Saudi's and the U.S., I am pretty sure the move to Pakistan was calculated to cause a rift in the relationship between Pakistan and the U.S.

His daughter can say a lot of damaging things that aren't true in order to deepen the rift, and I wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly what she is doing.

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

Juice wrote:

TymeLessKnicks wrote:This is as far as I will go on this forum in regard to politics and all things related...

Think outside the box...that is your television set.

Go Knicks!

Think Outside the box and do what? The informing of abounding theories is nothing more than entangling everyone deeper into the sheer corruptible world we live in. I mean let's be real most conspiracy information which very well could be more true than not essentially pegs government and the secret societies that work in close conjunction with them as pure lawlessness. Okay so now that you being the one bringing this to our attention let's say you're a voter does this mean you'll stop voting? Does this mean you'll find a way to avoid paying taxes? Does this mean you'll move to a country where there is no real presence of government? Does this mean you'll put more faith in god? I never understand when posters bring these videos into a discussion.

Just shedding some light on things. It doesn't mean anything else.

So what's dark if you're shedding light? Figure of speech huh?

nixluva wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:You know I've long debated how I should feel about violence but one thing we should keep in mind is that the universe thrives on violence. All life depends on the death of something else. When resources get tight men will fight to survive by claiming those resources. We have societies that are struggling to buck the natural state of things by finding peaceful ways to coexist but it's not the nature of things.

Colonists came here to North America and supplanted the native populations. That has happened over and over thru history. I don't know if man will ever achieve the peace they seek.

Nix, I have grown to respect your posts over time and I agree with what you stated. In fact to be completely honest I don't even know exactly how I feel about this. I think the first and strongets emotion was that of relief, that the world and more selfishly the people of my beloved New York can sleep better at night knowing this monster was dead. But there was also a tinge of sadness over the fact that his wife and possibly his children had to see him being killed in a manner deemed too violent for public viewing. And there is a good deal of revulsion in seeing people throw parties to celebrate his death that in my opinion is reprehensible. But, over time as the story unfolds I am sure I will end up feeling differently as I try to mix rational thought with the initial knee-jerk responses.

It's always easier to be ethically correct when it doesn't effect you directly, however, when it's not some other person, but you that has been wronged it really is hard to not be vengeful. A relative of yours gets attacked and sexually molested, perhaps a young girl and i'm sure that if you caught the guy that you would hardly be able to control your rage and wanting to hurt that person. It's only natural. I think that no human deserves to be treated like an animal UNLESS they behave as an animal. The problem is that human justice isn't perfect. Sometimes we're wrong and the law charges the wrong person for a crime. It's that doubt that stays my belief in a death penalty. However, in the case of a person like Osama who is proud of his murderous ways, I have no pity for that person and the violence that he basically has brought upon himself is well deserved.

True, and I have no pity for him either. I am not in a position to judge who does or does not 'deserve' to die. But going back to the MLK quote if you answer his type of violence with violence, it does not solve any problems. We didn't just shoot Nazi mass murderers, we put them through the due processs of the law. And we sure as hell didn't celebrate their deaths by throwing parties. All I am doing is questioning what seems to be a shift in American values.I am not asking anyone to pity Bin Laden.

Juice wrote:

nixluva wrote:I do agree Nalod that a child seeing their parent killed is not good. I feel for innocents and IMO young children are innocent in all this. They have no control over who their parents are or what they do. I can only imagine the mental damage that seeing something like that would do. Bin Laden should never have allowed his children to be in that position. It just shows you have selfish the guy was.

Sounds like he could have been taken out without the Kid having to witness the carnage. He was unarmed, shielded by a wife, surrounded by agents all over. In that instance identify who isn't a threat, treat them as if they are hostages and get them to safety while addressing the target at hand. I mean why wasn't the kid blown away? I'm sure discernment was exercised not to do so. The wife was shot and killed too right yet she was a shield how is this possible? I mean how many hostage situations have been handled correctly when the threat was actually armed. I realize the kid and wife weren't hostages but in essence on a surprise raid they were. Really this was just as selfish and cold killing. Now factor in the upbringing/history of affairs between countries and Bin Laden/US and wonder what that kid is thinking and what he may want to do in the future.

If that kid grows up and duplicates what his father does or worse or goes on some crazy genocide killing movement and he points to this event...... well just like kids who were taught abuse and were abused in a home the Perps are blood guilty to an extent if they go out and commit heinous crimes or murders because of being subject to it.

Don't get me wrong as the saying goes Osama reaped what he sowed and there's nothing he could have done to repay those who lost so much since the 90s on but as we see in the current news at the moment this killing put no dent in the tensions facing Eastern and Western foreign affairs.

Markji wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:anyone else think it could be possible that becuase (1) no photos have been released and (2) he was buried at sea, the government may have detained Osama?

Yes, I think anything is possible and I'd be very surprised if it all comes out. And that is fine with me. We should now start to pull out of Afghanistan. We don't need to be there and we can't afford to be there.

oh yeah, I'm not objecting over that...

The rest of the World bitches about our presence in these places. Fuck Afghanistan. Fuck Pakistan. Spend the money at home. Keep my friends alive.

Nalod wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:anyone else think it could be possible that becuase (1) no photos have been released and (2) he was buried at sea, the government may have detained Osama?

Regardless of if his heart is beating or not, The Bin is dead as we know it.

Im thinking the dude is the movie "seven" who was kept a live via anti biotics.

I'm thinking CIA operatives should call Marsellus Wallace's people

Juice wrote:

nixluva wrote:I do agree Nalod that a child seeing their parent killed is not good. I feel for innocents and IMO young children are innocent in all this. They have no control over who their parents are or what they do. I can only imagine the mental damage that seeing something like that would do. Bin Laden should never have allowed his children to be in that position. It just shows you have selfish the guy was.

Sounds like he could have been taken out without the Kid having to witness the carnage. He was unarmed, shielded by a wife, surrounded by agents all over. In that instance identify who isn't a threat, treat them as if they are hostages and get them to safety while addressing the target at hand. I mean why wasn't the kid blown away? I'm sure discernment was exercised not to do so. The wife was shot and killed too right yet she was a shield how is this possible? I mean how many hostage situations have been handled correctly when the threat was actually armed. I realize the kid and wife weren't hostages but in essence on a surprise raid they were. Really this was just as selfish and cold killing. Now factor in the upbringing/history of affairs between countries and Bin Laden/US and wonder what that kid is thinking and what he may want to do in the future.

If that kid grows up and duplicates what his father does or worse or goes on some crazy genocide killing movement and he points to this event...... well just like kids who were taught abuse and were abused in a home the Perps are blood guilty to an extent if they go out and commit heinous crimes or murders because of being subject to it.

Don't get me wrong as the saying goes Osama reaped what he sowed and there's nothing he could have done to repay those who lost so much since the 90s on but as we see in the current news at the moment this killing put no dent in the tensions facing Eastern and Western foreign affairs.