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Now we know why Nets keep raising the price for the Knicks - offering first round picks for Chandler, Gallo, Felton??
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Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  5:55 PM
martin wrote:The exchange has to be Billups+? for CP3/Deron+?. How do you fill in the ?'s that would make that deal palatable for either NO or Utah? Billups makes $14M and CP3/Deron make $16M. What more from NY could you include that would entice either team? Who is left on the Knicks? Fields? Williams? Picks (2016, cause 2012 gone and 2014 gone)?

Billups, Turiaf, 2011 first (whomever is selected), Fields, Douglas, and Mosgov are ALL possible inclusions for a CP3/Okafor swap.

The math works.

$28.9m is Okafor/Paul, which means $23 has to go the other way.

$14.2 (Billups) + Turiaf ($4.4) get you a good deal of the way there ($18.6). You're just $4.4 away. Mosgov and any combo of Douglas or Fields or the 2011 first gets you the rest of the way.

Understand IF Paul still has the free agent option in 2012, he'll know where he stands. He can tell NO he'll walk away for nothing.

At which point, shedding Okafor becomes priority #1.

AUTOADVERT
Olbrannon
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2/21/2011  6:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  6:06 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Nalod wrote:That was when they were in Jersey. Look how close the Atlantic yards are to Manhattan! Your not thinking of forward possibilities, just past failures under a different owner. Dolan thinks now. The russian has a 5 year plan.

I don't care if they built an addition on top of MSG and played there.

Regional sports loyalty isn't for sale, it just isn't, PARTICULARLY when the motivation is protest.

Now you're expecting loyalty to change at time when the Knicks are actually going to be at least respectable?

Not gonna happen, to any significant degree.

And the Nets new area will be close to LOWER Manhattan, which is not the same thing as being close to Manhattan, as anyone who lives north of midtown will tell you.

And what fanbase of their won the Nets DO have is families in NJ. I assure you they aren't going to Brooklyn.

This reeks of homerism for the Knicks. Granted the Garden has a history but the place will always stink it's rumored. Brooklyn will be a new facility and if Prokhorov did manage to take Moz and Gallo back to the Nets that would pull some fans. I don't see this huge advantage you proclaim under the right circumstances. Many have extolled the meddling ways of the owner and his friends.

Maybe they will still come just to boo the owner and his pet.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  6:18 PM
Olbrannon wrote:This reeks of homerism for the Knicks.

Perhaps. But it's also homerism for the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Giants, Jets, Rangers, and EVERY professional sports team that plays in a market with multiple teams.

The argument is in no way inherent to the Knicks.

I mean just the fact that the Clippers average 1500 less home fans than the Lakers tells you all you need to know.

People go to Clippers games, in the same ARENA that the Lakers play in...

Explain that for me please.

Sport fans just are not capricious and flighty. That's what makes them fans.

Loyalty runs deep. For most it goes back to childhood, and is generational. People don't change teams because of an arena, or because the don't like the owner.

It just doesn't happen and frankly I'm dumbfounded anyone with even a passing familiarity with NY sports thinks its a factor.

BRIGGS
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2/21/2011  6:20 PM
If the Knicks are sacrificing a few news cycles to solidify the move they want to make, they're winning the war, even if some of the media and fans aren't savvy enough to recognize it.


Kind of like the last 10 years? you're right--Knicks always ahead of the curve:) cash your paycheck from Dolan--who cares but were not idiots here my man.

RIP Crushalot😞
Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  6:26 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Kind of like the last 10 years? you're right--Knicks always ahead of the curve:) cash your paycheck from Dolan--who cares but were not idiots here my man.

Was Walsh here the last 10 years?

What's been your complaint the last 2?

I'll say it again. Chandler/Gallinari was always where this was headed and likely will end there.

And if that's the case, the whole Dolan/Thomas narrative that fans are all too eager to eat up resulted in what exactly?

martin
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2/21/2011  6:29 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:The exchange has to be Billups+? for CP3/Deron+?. How do you fill in the ?'s that would make that deal palatable for either NO or Utah? Billups makes $14M and CP3/Deron make $16M. What more from NY could you include that would entice either team? Who is left on the Knicks? Fields? Williams? Picks (2016, cause 2012 gone and 2014 gone)?

Billups, Turiaf, 2011 first (whomever is selected), Fields, Douglas, and Mosgov are ALL possible inclusions for a CP3/Okafor swap.

The math works.

$28.9m is Okafor/Paul, which means $23 has to go the other way.

$14.2 (Billups) + Turiaf ($4.4) get you a good deal of the way there ($18.6). You're just $4.4 away. Mosgov and any combo of Douglas or Fields or the 2011 first gets you the rest of the way.

Understand IF Paul still has the free agent option in 2012, he'll know where he stands. He can tell NO he'll walk away for nothing.

At which point, shedding Okafor becomes priority #1.

it works! Certainly does, not sure how competitive offer is. Very trump-able by others, no?

Cash Savings/Expiring+Moz+Fields+2011 for a decent C and Super star PG.

Denver just netted Cash Savings/Expiring+Gallo+Chandler+2014+Twolves pick for Elite scorer Melo. NO gotta hire some Denver staff to help them out!

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Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  6:44 PM
martin wrote:it works! Certainly does, not sure how competitive offer is. Very trump-able by others, no?

Cash Savings/Expiring+Moz+Fields+2011 for a decent C and Super star PG.

Denver just netted Cash Savings/Expiring+Gallo+Chandler+2014+Twolves pick for Elite scorer Melo. NO gotta hire some Denver staff to help them out!

But herein lies the difference.

Paul can refuse to sign an extension with another team, fully confident HE won't be costing himself millions of extra dollars. The CBA uncertainty will be in the review mirror.

Understand this is the guy who made the famous wedding toast.

I agree, it's not a homerun offer by any means. But you can also eliminate all teams that Paul doesn't want to go to. He's free and clear to say no.

This would be more of a Cleveland/Toronto situation than the Denver situation is, with Paul completely in the driver seat.

He can say NY trade, or I'll leave as a free agent, and it it doesn't even have to mean to sign with the Knicks. he just has to say this is the team I will go to mid-season, or will will just retain my options for the offseason.

Again, by no means certain, but I like the changes better than trying to get him with 'Melo in NJ or Denver.

Olbrannon
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2/21/2011  6:48 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Olbrannon wrote:This reeks of homerism for the Knicks.

Perhaps. But it's also homerism for the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Giants, Jets, Rangers, and EVERY professional sports team that plays in a market with multiple teams.

The argument is in no way inherent to the Knicks.

I mean just the fact that the Clippers average 1500 less home fans than the Lakers tells you all you need to know.

People go to Clippers games, in the same ARENA that the Lakers play in...

Explain that for me please.

Sport fans just are not capricious and flighty. That's what makes them fans.

Loyalty runs deep. For most it goes back to childhood, and is generational. People don't change teams because of an arena, or because the don't like the owner.

It just doesn't happen and frankly I'm dumbfounded anyone with even a passing familiarity with NY sports thinks its a factor.

I understand completely. Comparing the Clips/Lakers is just laughable how many titles have the Clips?

If the Russian can make something of Gallinari and Moz for two first round picks he gets press. If in the end he is wrong about either one he makes Dolan look like an ass because he got them for a single pick each. d'A said Gallo was the best shooter he ever saw. He's driving the rim and getting to the line. We know he can shoot. He already plays better defense than Melo.

If Melo and Stat ain't all that and your one and done a couple times? New york fan base? You reek of entitlement. Still the Garden is more than the Knicks and will always draw something. If only to boo.

Billups would be a nice addition to the Knicks organization I think is the only reason this whole thing doesn't make me puke. If your going to the playoffs I'd rather have a battle tested leader. It is likely this group could compete with Atlanta and maybe even the Heat. If it all clicks. But it ain't getting by Boston, Orlando, LA

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
martin
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2/21/2011  6:54 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:it works! Certainly does, not sure how competitive offer is. Very trump-able by others, no?

Cash Savings/Expiring+Moz+Fields+2011 for a decent C and Super star PG.

Denver just netted Cash Savings/Expiring+Gallo+Chandler+2014+Twolves pick for Elite scorer Melo. NO gotta hire some Denver staff to help them out!

But herein lies the difference.

Paul can refuse to sign an extension with another team, fully confident HE won't be costing himself millions of extra dollars. The CBA uncertainty will be in the review mirror.

Understand this is the guy who made the famous wedding toast.

I agree, it's not a homerun offer by any means. But you can also eliminate all teams that Paul doesn't want to go to. He's free and clear to say no.

This would be more of a Cleveland/Toronto situation than the Denver situation is, with Paul completely in the driver seat.

He can say NY trade, or I'll leave as a free agent, and it it doesn't even have to mean to sign with the Knicks. he just has to say this is the team I will go to mid-season, or will will just retain my options for the offseason.

Again, by no means certain, but I like the changes better than trying to get him with 'Melo in NJ or Denver.

Hey I agree with this.

IMHO Melo has made some of the more inept steps throughout this whole process. He doesn't make sure he opts out in the correct year. He values money that won't make a real difference in his life over winning a championship. He doesn't want to create a LeBron-like spectacle and yet here he is in the middle of it (most of it beyond his control but still there).

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nixluva
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2/21/2011  7:05 PM
If the Knicks make it to the 2nd round this year, it's a win for the organization. The fanbase will forget about the pain of the process and be revived by the excitement of real playoff basketball. I want to see this deal go down, cuz I think the team is better off having 2 elite players and filling in around them. I think they will be able to improve the team despite the loss of so many assets and cap space.

I like the chances of the lineup we'd be left with after the trade and I think it will be an improvement. Having Billups instead of Felton actually helps cuz he has chemistry with Melo and should have no problem in feeding STAT. I don't know if he'll be in complete synch on the PnR, but I think he'll be able to keep the ball moving and hit the shots he has to take. Most of all I think that Billups and Melo will really help in the playoffs.

Olbrannon
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2/21/2011  7:33 PM
nixluva wrote:If the Knicks make it to the 2nd round this year, it's a win for the organization. The fanbase will forget about the pain of the process and be revived by the excitement of real playoff basketball. I want to see this deal go down, cuz I think the team is better off having 2 elite players and filling in around them. I think they will be able to improve the team despite the loss of so many assets and cap space.

I like the chances of the lineup we'd be left with after the trade and I think it will be an improvement. Having Billups instead of Felton actually helps cuz he has chemistry with Melo and should have no problem in feeding STAT. I don't know if he'll be in complete synch on the PnR, but I think he'll be able to keep the ball moving and hit the shots he has to take. Most of all I think that Billups and Melo will really help in the playoffs.

I agree with that it's just a high price to get there. The last I heard we give up at least a 2014 1st and Moz, Gallo, Chandler, Felton It does play out nicely with the Paul to NY scenario as pointed out. How far is that going if the NBA slaps the 'franchise player' on the next CBA 'to keep the league competitive'?

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Uptown
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2/21/2011  7:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  8:07 PM
@ KnickofTime....I must say, you are all over this thread. I've been combing through some of the posts and just when I'm intrigued to reply to one, I see your post right beneath pretty much echoing my same thoughts but written very eloquently. Welcome to the board by the way.
loweyecue
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2/21/2011  7:52 PM
Uptown wrote:@ KnickofTime....I must say, you rare all over this thread. I've been combing through some of the posts and just when I'm itnrigued to reply to one, I see your post right beneath pretty much echoing my same thoughts but written very eloquently. Welcome to the board by the way.

Oh, I think he has been around for a while.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
BlueSeats
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2/21/2011  8:00 PM
loweyecue wrote:
Uptown wrote:@ KnickofTime....I must say, you rare all over this thread. I've been combing through some of the posts and just when I'm itnrigued to reply to one, I see your post right beneath pretty much echoing my same thoughts but written very eloquently. Welcome to the board by the way.

Oh, I think he has been around for a while.

Nah, it's not TMS. It's powerforward99 from way back on RealGM.

I'd love to see KOT and TMS go at it together sometime though. That would be nuclear.

loweyecue
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2/21/2011  8:06 PM
BlueSeats wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
Uptown wrote:@ KnickofTime....I must say, you rare all over this thread. I've been combing through some of the posts and just when I'm itnrigued to reply to one, I see your post right beneath pretty much echoing my same thoughts but written very eloquently. Welcome to the board by the way.

Oh, I think he has been around for a while.

Nah, it's not TMS. It's powerforward99 from way back on RealGM.

I'd love to see KOT and TMS go at it together sometime though. That would be nuclear.

If it's not the timing of his emergence would be just a coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences. BTW I am completely ignorant about real GM posters so I'll accept your opinion. And wanted to mention both you and Martin had some great posts on the starphuch thread. Good reads all the way.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Uptown
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2/21/2011  8:09 PM
loweyecue wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
Uptown wrote:@ KnickofTime....I must say, you rare all over this thread. I've been combing through some of the posts and just when I'm itnrigued to reply to one, I see your post right beneath pretty much echoing my same thoughts but written very eloquently. Welcome to the board by the way.

Oh, I think he has been around for a while.

Nah, it's not TMS. It's powerforward99 from way back on RealGM.

I'd love to see KOT and TMS go at it together sometime though. That would be nuclear.

If it's not the timing of his emergence would be just a coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences. BTW I am completely ignorant about real GM posters so I'll accept your opinion. And wanted to mention both you and Martin had some great posts on the starphuch thread. Good reads all the way.

KnickofTime joined in January...TMS last post was a couple of days ago.

Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  8:14 PM
martin wrote:Hey I agree with this.

The scenario actually makes more sense when you examine the competition (I'm assuming an Okafor package).

Lakers - If Bynum could stay healthy for a season, this would give them an enormous leg up, but it would also put them first in line for Williams and Howard. Expect the Lakers to come away with one of the big three if Bynum can stay on the court next season.

Orlando - Nelson, Bass, Redick, could get it done in terms of expirings with a little ability. Joining Howard is possible, IF he stays. Howard going to Lakers might work to Knicks advantage.

Dallas - Kidd, Terry, Beaubois, Mahinmi are comparable part,s but Dirk Nowitzki's 34 at this stage. Does a 26 year old Paul want to make his bed there?

Celtics - have the expirings salaries to match, but not a lot of young pieces and they have Rondo for multi-years at less money. Would Paul want to go someplace with Pierce, Allen and Garnett on their last legs? Would the Celtics even swap the younger Rondo?

Bulls - Rose: not gonna happen.

Thunder - Westbrook: see above. And not their style.

Spurs - already got Parker, Duncan is near the end, Ginobli is no spring chicken. NBA knows their shelf life is expiring.

Heat - overkill, don't have the contracts or young pieces.

And ladies and gentlemen, your dark horse candidate.

Clippers - they have both the contracts and young talent, and the cap space to sign him outright in the summer of 2012. Paul, Griffen and one of their other young pieces is scary, and they'll have ANOTHER lottery pick coming this year (or did they trade it away).

If Paul is serious about wanting to go someplace with other stars to go to war with Miami, Chicago, Oklahoma and LAL during his prime, Knicks and Clippers look like decent options, with maybe Orlando in the mix if he stays.

crzymdups
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2/21/2011  8:55 PM
now NJ is trying a different lame route, the ole, we're trading our players somewhere else since you won't do the Melo deal:

SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
by WojYahooNBA
Portland considering sending G Andre Miller and C Joel Pryzbilla to New Jersey for G Devin Harris and C Troy Murphy, sources tell Y! Sports
15 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

seriously, proko, acts like he's an international genius... when it's all really pretty transparent.

¿ △ ?
Now we know why Nets keep raising the price for the Knicks - offering first round picks for Chandler, Gallo, Felton??

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