NYKBocker wrote:People need to look at history for these kind of trades. 2 NFL trades that was similar was the Ricky Williams Saints trade and the Hershel Walker Dallas trade. Those trades helped the team that is getting all the players while the team that got that 1 price struggled. It's not just that the team did not have enough players to fill other holes in the team but the pressure on that lone player is too great.

Has there been any trades like this in the NBA other than the Jabbar trade(which actually worked)?

I too believe 2 picks, Felton, Galo, Chandler and Randolph is far too high a price to pay.

But you cannot draw an example from the NFL where you need to field extensive offensive and defensive rosters to compete.
The NBA is a different beast, a star is going to play 35-40 minutes & 3 stars makes an elite team.

Imagine 3 years in MSG to build around Amare and Melo.

They drafted Magic and WOrthy for Jabbar and great role players.

We talking Kareem! One of the 10 best players to grace the planet. One of top 5 big men of all time. Might even say 1 or 2.

Melo is Glen Rice or Glenn Robinson in their primes. He is Bernard King? Dr. J?

My jury is out on this. I don't know.

Many have said it - we have good pieces and can make other trades that may benefit the team more. I say explore those and if Melo becomes a FA you sign him.

This does not need to be a repeat of the McDyess trade that gutted our team for almost a decade. Let the Nets do that to themselves if the feel the need. We have a good direction and I think that this trade will ultimately ruin the team.

The price is too high, walk away.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks view this as their shot to be relevant. We may feel that the price is too high, but if they let this opportunity pass, then we might end up with another Ewing situation and I don't think they want to get stuck like that again. You can't compete with the Heat, Magic, Bulls or Celtics without firepower. My guess is that they feel they can survive without Timo and bring in a C like Barron to help inside. It's not about Timo, Gallo was the players that really put this over the edge in terms of assets given up. If it was Timo instead of Gallo, no one would be complaining as much. So we gave up Chandler, who wasn't coming back anyway, Felton who was likely a 2 year rental, Timo who hasn't fully developed and is still a ?, AR who we didn't want anyway. The Knicks don't care about the 2014 pick. GALLO is the only guy that really meant something in terms of value going forward.

This is what we would have in terms of guaranteed contracts next year:

Amar'e will make 18.2
Melo has an option for 18.5
Billups will make 14.2
Turiaf 4.3
Douglas 1.1
Walker 916,100
Rautins 788,872
Fields 788,872

They would be at about $58.8 mil. They could decide to cut cost by not keeping Billups or just ride it out one more year. The new CBA will be very important for how they look to build the team going forward. Still it's clear that this team is gonna have to live with low cost options all over the roster. They're gonna max out on the top 3 spots. Maybe they get Melo to restructure his deal to look like Amar'e who started at 16 mil this year.

The roster must have at least 12 players that list is 4 short. And at least 10 of those guys must be able to contribute at some point in the season. You don't play 82 games with 8 guys.

It is too much Nix. Way too much. When Denver started dictating and threatening the Knicks(moz or we trade to Nets) should have just walked away with a shrug.

If this were LBJ or Wade or Howard or Paul I might agree with your take. If this was a top 5 star in the NBA yes you make that trade. But I don't consider Melo worth all this. I could be wrong of course but I just don't see it.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks view this as their shot to be relevant. We may feel that the price is too high, but if they let this opportunity pass, then we might end up with another Ewing situation and I don't think they want to get stuck like that again. You can't compete with the Heat, Magic, Bulls or Celtics without firepower. My guess is that they feel they can survive without Timo and bring in a C like Barron to help inside. It's not about Timo, Gallo was the players that really put this over the edge in terms of assets given up. If it was Timo instead of Gallo, no one would be complaining as much. So we gave up Chandler, who wasn't coming back anyway, Felton who was likely a 2 year rental, Timo who hasn't fully developed and is still a ?, AR who we didn't want anyway. The Knicks don't care about the 2014 pick. GALLO is the only guy that really meant something in terms of value going forward.

This is what we would have in terms of guaranteed contracts next year:

Amar'e will make 18.2
Melo has an option for 18.5
Billups will make 14.2
Turiaf 4.3
Douglas 1.1
Walker 916,100
Rautins 788,872
Fields 788,872

They would be at about $58.8 mil. They could decide to cut cost by not keeping Billups or just ride it out one more year. The new CBA will be very important for how they look to build the team going forward. Still it's clear that this team is gonna have to live with low cost options all over the roster. They're gonna max out on the top 3 spots. Maybe they get Melo to restructure his deal to look like Amar'e who started at 16 mil this year.

YOu are right in saying the new CBA will really determine whether this turns into a good deal. Under the current CBA, I think you could build a roster in 2-3 years using the MLE to sign veterans. But if the MLE is eliminated and we go to a hard cap, then having cheap young players on your team is essential to having the depth necessary to contend. Keeping Fields is an absolute necessity as well as Timmy M., b/c we are not going to be able to find players that can do what they do at a cheaper price (assuming Timmy M. develops like we hope he will). Chandler is a FA, so we likely were going to lose him anyway, and Gallo will be a RFA next year, so we might have lost him anyway next year. As the deal currently stands, it is solid for both teams. If we give up Timmy M., I think we will lose the ability to find a quality center in the future unless that guy we traded for last year is blowing up over in Europe.

Knicksfan wrote:I wish to read at some point this day that Melo is finally pressuring Denver to accept the NY deal and NY putting stops to this madness, either saying they won't change the offer or removing Gallo or Felton off it.

Stern should get more involved in this, if he hasn't, as this has put the NBA in mockery.

I agree with you, but I think judging from Melo's comments, he's actually worried that Denver will screw him, so he's trying to play nice.

I can't wait for this to end though - I will be disappointed if we don't get Melo, but at the same time, I feel like if a team keeps moving the goal posts on you in negotiations they A) have no respect for you, B) are stalling or C) have no intention of dealing with you.

I think it's all three for Denver in this scenario. I think they want to send Melo to the Nets or possibly keep him for their own playoff run. I think they have zero intention of sending him where he wants to go, which seems childish and vindictive. That's like something a high school kid does to his high school girlfriend after she dumps him.

Denver is being foolish - the Knicks offer is clearly superior to the Nets.

Curry is going to MIN in that deal so that Denver won't have to pay the luxury tax. So basically, Curry will cost us one additional 1st round pick in that trade !!!!!!!!!! How crazy is that ???

colorfl1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:People need to look at history for these kind of trades. 2 NFL trades that was similar was the Ricky Williams Saints trade and the Hershel Walker Dallas trade. Those trades helped the team that is getting all the players while the team that got that 1 price struggled. It's not just that the team did not have enough players to fill other holes in the team but the pressure on that lone player is too great.

Has there been any trades like this in the NBA other than the Jabbar trade(which actually worked)?

I too believe 2 picks, Felton, Galo, Chandler and Randolph is far too high a price to pay.

But you cannot draw an example from the NFL where you need to field extensive offensive and defensive rosters to compete.
The NBA is a different beast, a star is going to play 35-40 minutes & 3 stars makes an elite team.

I disagree. You bake a cake with same ingredients just different ratio. Basketball has a smaller team so in effect a trade of 1 extremely good player for a slew of very good players is almost similar to trading Ricky Williams for your 7 draft picks. The effect will be the same. It is going to be hard to replace these players with the salary cap. Plus, the whole weight of the world is going to be on Melo. Any sign of trouble and people will point to him as the reason. He will always be the player that we broke up the whole team for. Do you think he will be able to handle the criticism?