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Hahn reporting that Denver will trade Melo to NJ if Knicks don't include Mosgov
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NYKBocker
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2/21/2011  8:23 AM
People need to look at history for these kind of trades. 2 NFL trades that was similar was the Ricky Williams Saints trade and the Hershel Walker Dallas trade. Those trades helped the team that is getting all the players while the team that got that 1 price struggled. It's not just that the team did not have enough players to fill other holes in the team but the pressure on that lone player is too great.

Has there been any trades like this in the NBA other than the Jabbar trade(which actually worked)?

AUTOADVERT
FrenchKnicks
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2/21/2011  8:26 AM
I pray for this deal not to happen.. that would be the best thing to happen at this point... Keep the core, I'm convinced Melo will be available this summer...
colorfl1
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2/21/2011  8:33 AM
NYKBocker wrote:People need to look at history for these kind of trades. 2 NFL trades that was similar was the Ricky Williams Saints trade and the Hershel Walker Dallas trade. Those trades helped the team that is getting all the players while the team that got that 1 price struggled. It's not just that the team did not have enough players to fill other holes in the team but the pressure on that lone player is too great.

Has there been any trades like this in the NBA other than the Jabbar trade(which actually worked)?

I too believe 2 picks, Felton, Galo, Chandler and Randolph is far too high a price to pay.

But you cannot draw an example from the NFL where you need to field extensive offensive and defensive rosters to compete.
The NBA is a different beast, a star is going to play 35-40 minutes & 3 stars makes an elite team.

MS
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2/21/2011  8:49 AM
This trade is a joke. Denver can keep the guy and lose in the first round of the playoffs.

I can't believe the lack of pure basketball knowledge on this site. Getting Carmelo does nothing to improve this team. If we give up everyone we are still not better than Miami, Boston, Chicago or Orlando. So we are the fifth best team in the east paying two guys 20MM?

Let Carmelo go to the Nets; that's a horrible deal for them too. You want to trade for Iverson and put him next to Carmelo? Sounded unstoppable. It's the same thing as putting Melo/Stat together two guys that do one thing very well don't play defense and need to get there's.

There are other guys we can trade for out there. If our guys can focus and play ball all there value will go up and trades will be there. Moz, Gallo, Chandler, Felton, Fields all these guys will get better. Melo isn't improving he is who he is. Let's keep the team we have and not do what we have always done. Melo is not a top 5 player so you don't trade you entire team for a guy that was too ****ing stupid to want an opt out in his contract because he wasn't intelligent enough to see what Bosh, Lebron and Wade does. You don't reward someone like that. He made the entire season about him, put his interests ahead of the team. Let him go play in NJ.

Nalod
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2/21/2011  8:58 AM
Jabbar trade worked but it took a few years for it to come together.

Imagine 3 years in MSG to build around Amare and Melo.

They drafted Magic and WOrthy for Jabbar and great role players.

We talking Kareem! One of the 10 best players to grace the planet. One of top 5 big men of all time. Might even say 1 or 2.

Melo is Glen Rice or Glenn Robinson in their primes. He is Bernard King? Dr. J?

My jury is out on this. I don't know.

nixluva
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2/21/2011  9:04 AM
The Knicks view this as their shot to be relevant. We may feel that the price is too high, but if they let this opportunity pass, then we might end up with another Ewing situation and I don't think they want to get stuck like that again. You can't compete with the Heat, Magic, Bulls or Celtics without firepower. My guess is that they feel they can survive without Timo and bring in a C like Barron to help inside. It's not about Timo, Gallo was the players that really put this over the edge in terms of assets given up. If it was Timo instead of Gallo, no one would be complaining as much. So we gave up Chandler, who wasn't coming back anyway, Felton who was likely a 2 year rental, Timo who hasn't fully developed and is still a ?, AR who we didn't want anyway. The Knicks don't care about the 2014 pick. GALLO is the only guy that really meant something in terms of value going forward.

This is what we would have in terms of guaranteed contracts next year:

Amar'e will make 18.2
Melo has an option for 18.5
Billups will make 14.2
Turiaf 4.3
Douglas 1.1
Walker 916,100
Rautins 788,872
Fields 788,872

They would be at about $58.8 mil. They could decide to cut cost by not keeping Billups or just ride it out one more year. The new CBA will be very important for how they look to build the team going forward. Still it's clear that this team is gonna have to live with low cost options all over the roster. They're gonna max out on the top 3 spots. Maybe they get Melo to restructure his deal to look like Amar'e who started at 16 mil this year.

OasisBU
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2/21/2011  9:08 AM
I will say it again - you absolutely do not gut your franchise for 1 player. Especially when that player wants out and can opt out into FA during the summer. The pressure should be on Melo and Denver but instead the Knicks are acting like fools and giving them leverage.

Many have said it - we have good pieces and can make other trades that may benefit the team more. I say explore those and if Melo becomes a FA you sign him.

This does not need to be a repeat of the McDyess trade that gutted our team for almost a decade. Let the Nets do that to themselves if the feel the need. We have a good direction and I think that this trade will ultimately ruin the team.

The price is too high, walk away.

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
FrenchKnicks
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2/21/2011  9:12 AM
MS wrote:This trade is a joke. Denver can keep the guy and lose in the first round of the playoffs.

I can't believe the lack of pure basketball knowledge on this site. Getting Carmelo does nothing to improve this team. If we give up everyone we are still not better than Miami, Boston, Chicago or Orlando. So we are the fifth best team in the east paying two guys 20MM?

Let Carmelo go to the Nets; that's a horrible deal for them too. You want to trade for Iverson and put him next to Carmelo? Sounded unstoppable. It's the same thing as putting Melo/Stat together two guys that do one thing very well don't play defense and need to get there's.

There are other guys we can trade for out there. If our guys can focus and play ball all there value will go up and trades will be there. Moz, Gallo, Chandler, Felton, Fields all these guys will get better. Melo isn't improving he is who he is. Let's keep the team we have and not do what we have always done. Melo is not a top 5 player so you don't trade you entire team for a guy that was too ****ing stupid to want an opt out in his contract because he wasn't intelligent enough to see what Bosh, Lebron and Wade does. You don't reward someone like that. He made the entire season about him, put his interests ahead of the team. Let him go play in NJ.

Most of the longtime posters hate the trade... look at the post counts or joined date, and you'll see who's in favor of it...

If that trade goes through, I'll hate it, and if Isiah gets back, I'll be out... the bad thing is, there is no team I'd like to root for in the NBA except for the Knicks... I might have to go an other 10 years without basketball...

Olbrannon
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2/21/2011  9:12 AM
nixluva wrote:The Knicks view this as their shot to be relevant. We may feel that the price is too high, but if they let this opportunity pass, then we might end up with another Ewing situation and I don't think they want to get stuck like that again. You can't compete with the Heat, Magic, Bulls or Celtics without firepower. My guess is that they feel they can survive without Timo and bring in a C like Barron to help inside. It's not about Timo, Gallo was the players that really put this over the edge in terms of assets given up. If it was Timo instead of Gallo, no one would be complaining as much. So we gave up Chandler, who wasn't coming back anyway, Felton who was likely a 2 year rental, Timo who hasn't fully developed and is still a ?, AR who we didn't want anyway. The Knicks don't care about the 2014 pick. GALLO is the only guy that really meant something in terms of value going forward.

This is what we would have in terms of guaranteed contracts next year:

Amar'e will make 18.2
Melo has an option for 18.5
Billups will make 14.2
Turiaf 4.3
Douglas 1.1
Walker 916,100
Rautins 788,872
Fields 788,872

They would be at about $58.8 mil. They could decide to cut cost by not keeping Billups or just ride it out one more year. The new CBA will be very important for how they look to build the team going forward. Still it's clear that this team is gonna have to live with low cost options all over the roster. They're gonna max out on the top 3 spots. Maybe they get Melo to restructure his deal to look like Amar'e who started at 16 mil this year.

The roster must have at least 12 players that list is 4 short. And at least 10 of those guys must be able to contribute at some point in the season. You don't play 82 games with 8 guys.

It is too much Nix. Way too much. When Denver started dictating and threatening the Knicks(moz or we trade to Nets) should have just walked away with a shrug.

If this were LBJ or Wade or Howard or Paul I might agree with your take. If this was a top 5 star in the NBA yes you make that trade. But I don't consider Melo worth all this. I could be wrong of course but I just don't see it.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Knicksfan
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2/21/2011  9:23 AM
I wish to read at some point this day that Melo is finally pressuring Denver to accept the NY deal and NY putting stops to this madness, either saying they won't change the offer or removing Gallo or Felton off it.

Stern should get more involved in this, if he hasn't, as this has put the NBA in mockery.

Knicks_Fan
TheGame
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2/21/2011  9:27 AM
nixluva wrote:The Knicks view this as their shot to be relevant. We may feel that the price is too high, but if they let this opportunity pass, then we might end up with another Ewing situation and I don't think they want to get stuck like that again. You can't compete with the Heat, Magic, Bulls or Celtics without firepower. My guess is that they feel they can survive without Timo and bring in a C like Barron to help inside. It's not about Timo, Gallo was the players that really put this over the edge in terms of assets given up. If it was Timo instead of Gallo, no one would be complaining as much. So we gave up Chandler, who wasn't coming back anyway, Felton who was likely a 2 year rental, Timo who hasn't fully developed and is still a ?, AR who we didn't want anyway. The Knicks don't care about the 2014 pick. GALLO is the only guy that really meant something in terms of value going forward.

This is what we would have in terms of guaranteed contracts next year:

Amar'e will make 18.2
Melo has an option for 18.5
Billups will make 14.2
Turiaf 4.3
Douglas 1.1
Walker 916,100
Rautins 788,872
Fields 788,872

They would be at about $58.8 mil. They could decide to cut cost by not keeping Billups or just ride it out one more year. The new CBA will be very important for how they look to build the team going forward. Still it's clear that this team is gonna have to live with low cost options all over the roster. They're gonna max out on the top 3 spots. Maybe they get Melo to restructure his deal to look like Amar'e who started at 16 mil this year.

YOu are right in saying the new CBA will really determine whether this turns into a good deal. Under the current CBA, I think you could build a roster in 2-3 years using the MLE to sign veterans. But if the MLE is eliminated and we go to a hard cap, then having cheap young players on your team is essential to having the depth necessary to contend. Keeping Fields is an absolute necessity as well as Timmy M., b/c we are not going to be able to find players that can do what they do at a cheaper price (assuming Timmy M. develops like we hope he will). Chandler is a FA, so we likely were going to lose him anyway, and Gallo will be a RFA next year, so we might have lost him anyway next year. As the deal currently stands, it is solid for both teams. If we give up Timmy M., I think we will lose the ability to find a quality center in the future unless that guy we traded for last year is blowing up over in Europe.

Trust the Process
fishmike
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2/21/2011  9:28 AM
Knicks have no reason to panic. We will play much better with the Melo drama behind us and the young guys will get focused again.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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2/21/2011  9:30 AM
Knicksfan wrote:I wish to read at some point this day that Melo is finally pressuring Denver to accept the NY deal and NY putting stops to this madness, either saying they won't change the offer or removing Gallo or Felton off it.

Stern should get more involved in this, if he hasn't, as this has put the NBA in mockery.

I agree with you, but I think judging from Melo's comments, he's actually worried that Denver will screw him, so he's trying to play nice.

I can't wait for this to end though - I will be disappointed if we don't get Melo, but at the same time, I feel like if a team keeps moving the goal posts on you in negotiations they A) have no respect for you, B) are stalling or C) have no intention of dealing with you.

I think it's all three for Denver in this scenario. I think they want to send Melo to the Nets or possibly keep him for their own playoff run. I think they have zero intention of sending him where he wants to go, which seems childish and vindictive. That's like something a high school kid does to his high school girlfriend after she dumps him.

Denver is being foolish - the Knicks offer is clearly superior to the Nets.

¿ △ ?
Andrew
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2/21/2011  9:30 AM
My counter offer would be Melo for Curry, Chandler and whatever AR gets you.
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FrenchKnicks
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2/21/2011  9:36 AM
The worst thing about this trade is that it looks like we have to trade AR in order to unload Curry's contract !!!

Curry is going to MIN in that deal so that Denver won't have to pay the luxury tax. So basically, Curry will cost us one additional 1st round pick in that trade !!!!!!!!!! How crazy is that ???

JohnWallace44
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2/21/2011  9:40 AM
The thing is we added in the 2014 1st rounder. So... Come on Denver.

KNICKS OFFER
- Ill Will
- Gallo
- Felton
- AR/1st
- Curry salary relief
- 2014 1st round pick

NETS OFFER
- 1st round pick
- 1st round pick
- 1st round pick
- 1st round pick
- D Harris
- Favors

If I had a deal I could sign off on right now with Moz in it, maybe I'd sign it, but just adding him to the pile and letting Denver continue to make crazy demands is insane. The Nets offer is better especially going into the new CBA, but if they like the Nets offer then make the deal already. The fact that they haven't tells me the Knicks have an edge, so they should just hold tight.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
orangeblobman
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2/21/2011  9:49 AM
Is it not obvious Denver is jerking our chain here? Is that not obvious? If these demands are true, this is a big stupid joke. I doubt Donnie would still be in this negotiation. This can't be Donnie calling the shots, it just can't. Disgusting.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
nixluva
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2/21/2011  9:53 AM
Olbrannon wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Knicks view this as their shot to be relevant. We may feel that the price is too high, but if they let this opportunity pass, then we might end up with another Ewing situation and I don't think they want to get stuck like that again. You can't compete with the Heat, Magic, Bulls or Celtics without firepower. My guess is that they feel they can survive without Timo and bring in a C like Barron to help inside. It's not about Timo, Gallo was the players that really put this over the edge in terms of assets given up. If it was Timo instead of Gallo, no one would be complaining as much. So we gave up Chandler, who wasn't coming back anyway, Felton who was likely a 2 year rental, Timo who hasn't fully developed and is still a ?, AR who we didn't want anyway. The Knicks don't care about the 2014 pick. GALLO is the only guy that really meant something in terms of value going forward.

This is what we would have in terms of guaranteed contracts next year:

Amar'e will make 18.2
Melo has an option for 18.5
Billups will make 14.2
Turiaf 4.3
Douglas 1.1
Walker 916,100
Rautins 788,872
Fields 788,872

They would be at about $58.8 mil. They could decide to cut cost by not keeping Billups or just ride it out one more year. The new CBA will be very important for how they look to build the team going forward. Still it's clear that this team is gonna have to live with low cost options all over the roster. They're gonna max out on the top 3 spots. Maybe they get Melo to restructure his deal to look like Amar'e who started at 16 mil this year.

The roster must have at least 12 players that list is 4 short. And at least 10 of those guys must be able to contribute at some point in the season. You don't play 82 games with 8 guys.

It is too much Nix. Way too much. When Denver started dictating and threatening the Knicks(moz or we trade to Nets) should have just walked away with a shrug.

If this were LBJ or Wade or Howard or Paul I might agree with your take. If this was a top 5 star in the NBA yes you make that trade. But I don't consider Melo worth all this. I could be wrong of course but I just don't see it.

My list is just the guaranteed contracts that we have next year after the deal. The Knicks will go over the cap to fill out the roster but how they do it will depend on what the new CBA allows. I'm hoping they don't get rid of the MLE, cuz of course now we could use it. We'll have to see what happens.

I still think the deal is worth it cuz you just can't beat the better teams without top tier talent and Melo is close enough to the best in the league to make us competitive. Amar'e has made a big impact and I think Melo will do the same. Chandler is being replaced by Melo and Gallo never really took a lot of shots to begin with. We will have to rely on guys like Fields, Walker and Williams to step up and take a few more shots. Maybe now we can get AZ involved too. Mike plays a short rotation anyway, so for the most part the impact may not be that big of a deal. So long as we add big man depth and another PG we should be able to function at a high level.

NYKBocker
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2/21/2011  9:54 AM
colorfl1 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:People need to look at history for these kind of trades. 2 NFL trades that was similar was the Ricky Williams Saints trade and the Hershel Walker Dallas trade. Those trades helped the team that is getting all the players while the team that got that 1 price struggled. It's not just that the team did not have enough players to fill other holes in the team but the pressure on that lone player is too great.

Has there been any trades like this in the NBA other than the Jabbar trade(which actually worked)?

I too believe 2 picks, Felton, Galo, Chandler and Randolph is far too high a price to pay.

But you cannot draw an example from the NFL where you need to field extensive offensive and defensive rosters to compete.
The NBA is a different beast, a star is going to play 35-40 minutes & 3 stars makes an elite team.

I disagree. You bake a cake with same ingredients just different ratio. Basketball has a smaller team so in effect a trade of 1 extremely good player for a slew of very good players is almost similar to trading Ricky Williams for your 7 draft picks. The effect will be the same. It is going to be hard to replace these players with the salary cap. Plus, the whole weight of the world is going to be on Melo. Any sign of trouble and people will point to him as the reason. He will always be the player that we broke up the whole team for. Do you think he will be able to handle the criticism?

NYKBocker
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2/21/2011  10:01 AM
Andrew wrote:My counter offer would be Melo for Curry, Chandler and whatever AR gets you.

This was my initial offer when all this **** started. I don't know why Dolan is playing to Denver's hands. Man is just clueless. I guess that is what happens when you are born into money. He has no idea of true value in current situations.

Hahn reporting that Denver will trade Melo to NJ if Knicks don't include Mosgov

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