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ESPN reporting a 3 team deal is being discussed between DEN, NY & MIN to get Melo to NY
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tkf
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2/7/2011  3:18 PM
martin wrote:
tkf wrote:
martin wrote:Just want to point out one more detail that isn't really highlighted in articles.

Salary Cap: $58M.
Luxury Cap: $70M.
Denver today: $83M. Luxury/Payments: ~$26M.

Trade:

Denver gets Brewer, Chandler, Pick.
NY: Melo
Twolves: $3M, AR, Curry.

I want to believe that a couple of more small parts will shake out of this, maybe Balkman to NY for $3M+player with lower salary slot.

So, after trade:


Starting Salary: 83.5
Chandler         +2.1
Brewer           +3.7
Melo            -17.1
Balk             -1.7
----------------------
                $70.5

You include the extra $3M the Knicks could include in the second trade, and you are talking about a savings just under $30M for Denver, nothing to sneeze at when you consider that the family who owns the team is changing management and ownership etc and the sale of the football team to the father of the head of the team.


true, but they have money. that kroenke guy is married to one of the walmart daughters, and she is one of the richest people in the world.. and kroenke is no slouch either...

not so sure. dad kronenke is buying nfl team and hands are probably tied, and I think there is a hard separation between owning an nfl and nba team at the same time, which is why the new owner of Denver - son kroenke - is limited funds-wise.

I could be wrong but salary/luxury tax savings is a prime motivation in all of these trade talks for Denver (along with picks and young players).

Possibly, but I think kroenke is worth around 1.5 bil... and his wife around 3.5 bil. I am sure they should have no problem raising capital.. haha, but you may have a point there...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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TMS
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2/7/2011  3:21 PM
some of the richest owners in sports are some of the biggest penny pinchers when it comes to payroll... they run their organizations like any other business, they're looking to net a profit, or at least not take a big loss... faced w/the prospect of losing their franchise player it makes sense that the Nuggets will have their eye on saving money during a time of rebuild.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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2/7/2011  3:34 PM

This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.
NYKBocker
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2/7/2011  8:04 PM
If Rautins and Azabuike is included then this would mean that Minny wants to shed some contract for Azabuike and some cheap talent in going to them. Most likely it will be Ridnour and his 3 year contract.
CrushAlot
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2/7/2011  8:08 PM
NYKBocker wrote:If Rautins and Azabuike is included then this would mean that Minny wants to shed some contract for Azabuike and some cheap talent in going to them. Most likely it will be Ridnour and his 3 year contract.

I read somewhere that they might move Flynn.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
NYKBocker
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2/7/2011  8:15 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If Rautins and Azabuike is included then this would mean that Minny wants to shed some contract for Azabuike and some cheap talent in going to them. Most likely it will be Ridnour and his 3 year contract.

I read somewhere that they might move Flynn.

The would be stupid if they are giving Flynn for basically Rautins and Azabuike.
CrushAlot
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2/7/2011  8:17 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If Rautins and Azabuike is included then this would mean that Minny wants to shed some contract for Azabuike and some cheap talent in going to them. Most likely it will be Ridnour and his 3 year contract.

I read somewhere that they might move Flynn.

The would be stupid if they are giving Flynn for basically Rautins and Azabuike.

I don't know that it would be in that trade. It was mentioned on realgm or Hoopsworld and may have just been speculation.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
tkf
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2/7/2011  9:36 PM
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Papabear
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2/7/2011  9:54 PM
tkf wrote:
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Papabear Says

Carmelo played for them for 8 years and made them lots of money. He is not a working slave. The man wants to be free from them and they should respect his wish. If Denver do not trade Melo by the trade deadline then they are out to screw him no matter how much money he made that franchise.

Papabear
tkf
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2/7/2011  10:00 PM
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Papabear Says

Carmelo played for them for 8 years and made them lots of money. He is not a working slave. The man wants to be free from them and they should respect his wish. If Denver do not trade Melo by the trade deadline then they are out to screw him no matter how much money he made that franchise.

true, and carmelo also got paid a ton of money...No one is saying he is a working slave, but he is a contract worker, under contract and he is telling his employer he doesn't want to play there any longer, but do me a favor.... trade me so I can still get paid before the lockout... LOL. come on man.. have to look at it from Denvers point of view as well...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
babyKnicks
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2/7/2011  10:04 PM
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Papabear Says

Carmelo played for them for 8 years and made them lots of money. He is not a working slave. The man wants to be free from them and they should respect his wish. If Denver do not trade Melo by the trade deadline then they are out to screw him no matter how much money he made that franchise.

true, and carmelo also got paid a ton of money...No one is saying he is a working slave, but he is a contract worker, under contract and he is telling his employer he doesn't want to play there any longer, but do me a favor.... trade me so I can still get paid before the lockout... LOL. come on man.. have to look at it from Denvers point of view as well...

Actually, what Carmelo is doing is more than any have recently, he's giving his team ample notice to get something in return.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
nixluva
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2/7/2011  10:56 PM
Look Denver did their best to try and build around the guy and it didn't work. He wants to move on and try something new. Denver will have to bite the bullet, but it's probably a blessing in disguise. They can tear it down and start over and likely save some money and try to draft a new star. Every team eventually has to face this, when they've failed to put a title team together. Better to realize it early and start fresh.

I look at the Mavs and really they're gonna land on hard times but they've decided to play it out with Dirk and Kidd so that fast closing window is the grave they've dug for themselves. It's a choice each team has to make. We all know from the Ewing trade that if you go too far it's best to ride it all the way to the end. With Denver this is different cuz Melo isn't at the end of his career, only the team is at the end of the line with the roster. They can't get any better and it's clear they aren't a title team. So Melo wants out and they should comply and start over. They got all excited by the idea of the Nets deal but now they've got to face reality and take the best deal left to them. Melo and his agent have forced their hand and NY is the only place they'll accept. Get it done.
Nalod
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2/7/2011  11:10 PM
This is all playing out like I thought it would. Logically.

The thing has always been Melos resolve to go into free agency if he does not get to land where he wants.

He is also trying to do it without hurting his brand.

Other than his wife wanting to be the only reason I see him leaving is Denver ownership is going on the cheap.

Regarding his making money for the team and being bound as a slave I think is a stretch. Melo could have tested free agency 4 years ago when his rookie deal expired and could have gone last summer. This is his year to OPT OUT. There is a 65 million dollar extension on top of his 18mil salary for next year (barring lockout) so I hardly call EIGHT THREE MILLION DOLLARS anything close to being unfair if he is held in bondage.

The best negotiators create a win-win scenario to get what you want. some have preached trading for melo no matter what the cost "and figure the rest out later" but "the rest out later" is what wins you championships. The names Bill Wennington, Wil Purdue, Luc Longley, John paxton, Steve Kerr, dennis rodman, etc etc all have championship rings with the bulls. Its the support team that makes the stars shine brightest and reach the pinnacle of greatness.

Get melo, but a good chess player things in different dimensions and steps ahead of his/her opponent.

Around here only OBM (Orangeblobman) comes close to thinking in such terms!
tkf
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2/8/2011  12:41 AM
babyKnicks wrote:
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Papabear Says

Carmelo played for them for 8 years and made them lots of money. He is not a working slave. The man wants to be free from them and they should respect his wish. If Denver do not trade Melo by the trade deadline then they are out to screw him no matter how much money he made that franchise.

true, and carmelo also got paid a ton of money...No one is saying he is a working slave, but he is a contract worker, under contract and he is telling his employer he doesn't want to play there any longer, but do me a favor.... trade me so I can still get paid before the lockout... LOL. come on man.. have to look at it from Denvers point of view as well...

Actually, what Carmelo is doing is more than any have recently, he's giving his team ample notice to get something in return.

I am not faulting melo, just saying I understand how denver might feel...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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2/8/2011  8:02 AM
tkf wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Papabear Says

Carmelo played for them for 8 years and made them lots of money. He is not a working slave. The man wants to be free from them and they should respect his wish. If Denver do not trade Melo by the trade deadline then they are out to screw him no matter how much money he made that franchise.

true, and carmelo also got paid a ton of money...No one is saying he is a working slave, but he is a contract worker, under contract and he is telling his employer he doesn't want to play there any longer, but do me a favor.... trade me so I can still get paid before the lockout... LOL. come on man.. have to look at it from Denvers point of view as well...

Actually, what Carmelo is doing is more than any have recently, he's giving his team ample notice to get something in return.

I am not faulting melo, just saying I understand how denver might feel...



Don't sweat it. NBA ownership is a fraternity among owners and they have to get along. In pro sports you rarely see injured players being traded unbeknown to the receiving team or other hoodwinking. I would think any disagreements are handled in private. You rarely see owners publicly in conflict.

I think all in all Melo has attempted to work with Denver but ultimately for someone to win someone has to lose. Melo does not get to move one with his extension as he would prefer or Denver gets fair value in a trade.
joec32033
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2/8/2011  10:06 AM
Nalod wrote:
tkf wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Nalod wrote:
This is all going to be very under the radar until its done. Donnie takes the high road and thats why he disclosed to all the hiring of Mark Wark and I doubt we'll hear much until a deal is struck. The high road does not stress out ones roster nor embarass the other team (denver).

If Denver gets bad press like Memphis did when they traded Pau it could cause them to back out.

Ownership has to be empathetic to a team losing a star in such conditions and we should do what we can but within the design of a winning team. Starphuching to "play it safe" won't give us the flexibility going forward to finish this roster properly.

This is high stakes poker and you got to keep it close to the vest.

"Cool Donnie" is on it. Im not worried. If there is good deal to be got and we keep our direction then he'll do it.


good post nalod.. this is why I said that with all the talk of melo wanting to come here and all the hoopla in the press, I am sure denver's ownership has to be a bit bitter towards NY, and I can understand. I mean the star player your franchise is currently built upon wants to leave, and it has nothing to do with money. I am sure it is a very touchy situation for denver..

Papabear Says

Carmelo played for them for 8 years and made them lots of money. He is not a working slave. The man wants to be free from them and they should respect his wish. If Denver do not trade Melo by the trade deadline then they are out to screw him no matter how much money he made that franchise.

true, and carmelo also got paid a ton of money...No one is saying he is a working slave, but he is a contract worker, under contract and he is telling his employer he doesn't want to play there any longer, but do me a favor.... trade me so I can still get paid before the lockout... LOL. come on man.. have to look at it from Denvers point of view as well...

Actually, what Carmelo is doing is more than any have recently, he's giving his team ample notice to get something in return.

I am not faulting melo, just saying I understand how denver might feel...



Don't sweat it. NBA ownership is a fraternity among owners and they have to get along. In pro sports you rarely see injured players being traded unbeknown to the receiving team or other hoodwinking. I would think any disagreements are handled in private. You rarely see owners publicly in conflict.

I think all in all Melo has attempted to work with Denver but ultimately for someone to win someone has to lose. Melo does not get to move one with his extension as he would prefer or Denver gets fair value in a trade.

Eh....what is fair value though? There are 3 versions of this fair value.

Denver's fair value- Trading a young All-Star cornerstone that can leave at the end of this season with you getting nothing in return.

NY's fair value- Giving up multiple assets for a young All-Star cornerstone that they can sign in a few months without giving up nearly as much. If they can unload Turiaf, in the summer Melo would conceivably have cost them just Chandler and Turiaf.

Any other team's fair value- Renting a player for 3 months or so that you know wants to play for a specific team and you may lose not only him but ALL the pieces you gave up to get him.

That is 3 different "fair value"s.

~You can't run from who you are.~
Nalod
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2/8/2011  2:32 PM

IF we land Melo I hope the starphuchers who hate on our defense realize Melo don't get paid to play Defense.

He couldn't guard a bar stool if asked.

Just so we all clear about this.
TMS
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2/8/2011  2:42 PM
Nalod wrote:
IF we land Melo I hope the starphuchers who hate on our defense realize Melo don't get paid to play Defense.

He couldn't guard a bar stool if asked.

Just so we all clear about this.

no worries about that, i don't think anyone's under any illusion about Melo's defensive ability... it's his offensive skillset people think will help this franchise... if we land Melo all the idiots that compared him to 3rd tier talent like Gilbert Arenas for the past few months will be doing a 180, u can take that to the bank.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
NYKBocker
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2/8/2011  2:43 PM
Nalod wrote:
IF we land Melo I hope the starphuchers who hate on our defense realize Melo don't get paid to play Defense.

He couldn't guard a bar stool if asked.

Just so we all clear about this.

They will just blame Gallo for the defense.
fishmike
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2/8/2011  2:44 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
Nalod wrote:
IF we land Melo I hope the starphuchers who hate on our defense realize Melo don't get paid to play Defense.

He couldn't guard a bar stool if asked.

Just so we all clear about this.

They will just blame Gallo for the defense.

MDAs fault... obviously a poor motivator on the defensive side
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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ESPN reporting a 3 team deal is being discussed between DEN, NY & MIN to get Melo to NY
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