cheers wrote:

TMS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:birdman + melo + jr smith

for

gallo + fields + ar + curry + azubuike

who blinks first?

i don't think there's any way DW passes up on a deal like that... it would address every one of our needs at this point except for a backup PG, & would allow us to retain Wilson C this summer as a RFA.

birdman can jump freakishly high to block a shot, but i dunno would he get along with mda? would jr smith get along with mda??

plus we give up fields who is becoming my favorite knick cries. i dunno. man i hope those mayo rumors are true.

nah, i don't see JR getting along w/MDA if he can't get along w/George Karl... he'd probably take AR's place on the bench in MDA's doghouse... but i don't get the same sense about Birdman... i think MDA would love the guy... he brings alot of the same hustle & defensive intensity that Fishlips brought, only with better shotblocking & rebounding skills... MDA is looking for AR to bring exactly what Birdman brings every night, so i think a guy like that could easily find a regular role here.

TMS wrote:

cheers wrote:

TMS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:birdman + melo + jr smith

for

gallo + fields + ar + curry + azubuike

who blinks first?

i don't think there's any way DW passes up on a deal like that... it would address every one of our needs at this point except for a backup PG, & would allow us to retain Wilson C this summer as a RFA.

birdman can jump freakishly high to block a shot, but i dunno would he get along with mda? would jr smith get along with mda??

plus we give up fields who is becoming my favorite knick cries. i dunno. man i hope those mayo rumors are true.

nah, i don't see JR getting along w/MDA if he can't get along w/George Karl... he'd probably take AR's place on the bench in MDA's doghouse... but i don't get the same sense about Birdman... i think MDA would love the guy... he brings alot of the same hustle & defensive intensity that Fishlips brought, only with better shotblocking & rebounding skills... MDA is looking for AR to bring exactly what Birdman brings every night, so i think a guy like that could easily find a regular role here.

MDA said it himself. He wanted AR to have that Jared Jefferies role (Fill the lane, guard point guards as well as anyone else, create energy on both ends). Now, Birdman wouldn't be able to guard PGs in all likelihood, but he'd still create that energy and he's much more in control and picks his lanes wisely on offense, just like Camby.

Birdman would be perfect here...... It's his past drug issues that worry me though, and that's a very big worry. And when I say that, I don't mean worried for the team. I flat out mean worried for HIM.

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo put up 31 pts and grabbed 13 boards.

Amare put up 30 pts and grabbed 8 boards.

Last time I checked Denver lost by 4 points.

The Knicks supporting cast outplayed Denver's supporting cast today. Neither team played good defense.

This offense isnt balanced. We lived by the 3 tonight combined with Amare beasting. Denver penetrated and scored layups.

Source: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=301212018

You're glossing over essential information. Carmelo shot poorly, 11 for 27 is brutal to your team. And all those points in the paint? That wasn't Carmelo, that was Nene.

Getting Carmelo doesn't solve our post defense problems. Nene (and basically any of the West coast teams) will have their way with us in the paint. Getting a player like Carmelo doesn't solve any of that.

Not just this season.

I've grown too attached to the players on the current roster. I love the style of ball they are playing.

Look to pick up a center in the offseason and a back up PG, re-sign Chandler.

No to Melo.

kingofelpaso wrote:Just say no to Melo.

Not just this season.

I've grown too attached to the players on the current roster. I love the style of ball they are playing.

Look to pick up a center in the offseason and a back up PG, re-sign Chandler.

No to Melo.

Everyone talks about chemistry but so far no one has mentioned the fact the Knicks had 30 assists against Denver. (Except The Answer Man of course) Only 6 turnovers.

The passing was crisp, unselfish and supremely effective. They were ALL swooping and hooping. Every last one of them.

"You play to win the game, hello?"

AnubisADL wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo put up 31 pts and grabbed 13 boards.

Amare put up 30 pts and grabbed 8 boards.

Last time I checked Denver lost by 4 points.

The Knicks supporting cast outplayed Denver's supporting cast today. Neither team played good defense.

This offense isnt balanced. We lived by the 3 tonight combined with Amare beasting. Denver penetrated and scored layups.

Source: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=301212018

You're glossing over essential information. Carmelo shot poorly, 11 for 27 is brutal to your team. And all those points in the paint? That wasn't Carmelo, that was Nene.

Getting Carmelo doesn't solve our post defense problems. Nene (and basically any of the West coast teams) will have their way with us in the paint. Getting a player like Carmelo doesn't solve any of that.

Nene is not a 28 pt and 8 reb player. He is a 15 and 7 player.

Carmelo can score 30 points every night if he wanted. Can Nene will himself to 27 and 8 every night. I dont think so.

This was ONE game where Carmelo was coming back from an injury. Of course you dont want to acknowledge that even though Carmelo shot poorly he was able to get to the line and convert 100% of his 9 free throws or that he grabbed 13 boards.

If Gallo could contribute like that CONSISTENTLY on bad shooting nights people here would be doing somersaults.

Youre missing the point. No one is doubting the kind of numbers that Melo can put up. As far as I can see, everyone here is acknowledging that he can score easily and get to the line.

What youre missing is that he is not the kind of player who can continue to put up those numbers within the flow of the offense. He also does not fit a need of this team. He is the anti-Landry Fields!

Melo is the kind of player who requires two dozen shots per night to get to his 25 point average. That takes higher percentage shots away from Amare.

Please tell me what it is that Carmelo Anthony provides that the Knicks have not sufficiently received this season from the combination of Wilson Chandler and Gallinari?

There has been no problem scoring. No problem with the two of them rebounding sufficiently. Neither requires the ball constantly to make an impact. Both provide countless intangibles that do not show up on the box score but help to create wins.

I dont want to see either Chandler or Gallinari leave.

Right now, Chandler is doing everything that Anthony could, with the addition of shot blocking and improved defense.

Gallinari stretches defenses away from Amare to let him and Felton play their 2 man game. Even if he has been inconsistent from 3 point range, teams are hesitant to leave him because of the shooting threat that he presents. Melo simply isnt a long distance threat.

This is not to even start mentioning that both players come at about half the cost of signing Carmelo, leaving the team open to add other more important missing parts, like a defensive center, for example.

kingofelpaso wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo put up 31 pts and grabbed 13 boards.

Amare put up 30 pts and grabbed 8 boards.

Last time I checked Denver lost by 4 points.

The Knicks supporting cast outplayed Denver's supporting cast today. Neither team played good defense.

This offense isnt balanced. We lived by the 3 tonight combined with Amare beasting. Denver penetrated and scored layups.

Source: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=301212018

You're glossing over essential information. Carmelo shot poorly, 11 for 27 is brutal to your team. And all those points in the paint? That wasn't Carmelo, that was Nene.

Getting Carmelo doesn't solve our post defense problems. Nene (and basically any of the West coast teams) will have their way with us in the paint. Getting a player like Carmelo doesn't solve any of that.

Nene is not a 28 pt and 8 reb player. He is a 15 and 7 player.

Carmelo can score 30 points every night if he wanted. Can Nene will himself to 27 and 8 every night. I dont think so.

This was ONE game where Carmelo was coming back from an injury. Of course you dont want to acknowledge that even though Carmelo shot poorly he was able to get to the line and convert 100% of his 9 free throws or that he grabbed 13 boards.

If Gallo could contribute like that CONSISTENTLY on bad shooting nights people here would be doing somersaults.

Youre missing the point. No one is doubting the kind of numbers that Melo can put up. As far as I can see, everyone here is acknowledging that he can score easily and get to the line.

What youre missing is that he is not the kind of player who can continue to put up those numbers within the flow of the offense. He also does not fit a need of this team. He is the anti-Landry Fields!

Melo is the kind of player who requires two dozen shots per night to get to his 25 point average. That takes higher percentage shots away from Amare.

Please tell me what it is that Carmelo Anthony provides that the Knicks have not sufficiently received this season from the combination of Wilson Chandler and Gallinari?

There has been no problem scoring. No problem with the two of them rebounding sufficiently. Neither requires the ball constantly to make an impact. Both provide countless intangibles that do not show up on the box score but help to create wins.

I dont want to see either Chandler or Gallinari leave.

Right now, Chandler is doing everything that Anthony could, with the addition of shot blocking and improved defense.

Gallinari stretches defenses away from Amare to let him and Felton play their 2 man game. Even if he has been inconsistent from 3 point range, teams are hesitant to leave him because of the shooting threat that he presents. Melo simply isnt a long distance threat.

This is not to even start mentioning that both players come at about half the cost of signing Carmelo, leaving the team open to add other more important missing parts, like a defensive center, for example.

Papabear Says

You will see when they play Boston and Miami.

kingofelpaso wrote:
Youre missing the point. No one is doubting the kind of numbers that Melo can put up. As far as I can see, everyone here is acknowledging that he can score easily and get to the line.

What youre missing is that he is not the kind of player who can continue to put up those numbers within the flow of the offense. He also does not fit a need of this team. He is the anti-Landry Fields!

Melo is the kind of player who requires two dozen shots per night to get to his 25 point average. That takes higher percentage shots away from Amare.

Please tell me what it is that Carmelo Anthony provides that the Knicks have not sufficiently received this season from the combination of Wilson Chandler and Gallinari?

There has been no problem scoring. No problem with the two of them rebounding sufficiently. Neither requires the ball constantly to make an impact. Both provide countless intangibles that do not show up on the box score but help to create wins.

I dont want to see either Chandler or Gallinari leave.

Right now, Chandler is doing everything that Anthony could, with the addition of shot blocking and improved defense.

Gallinari stretches defenses away from Amare to let him and Felton play their 2 man game. Even if he has been inconsistent from 3 point range, teams are hesitant to leave him because of the shooting threat that he presents. Melo simply isnt a long distance threat.

This is not to even start mentioning that both players come at about half the cost of signing Carmelo, leaving the team open to add other more important missing parts, like a defensive center, for example.

- Amare is averaging the SAME amount of FGA's per game as Melo. Common sense would suggest if they were on the same team they would take less shots per game.

- Please stop talking about Carmelo's stats in a bubble. We are getting Carmelo to play WITH Amare. Therefore those opportunities that Gallo and Chandler are getting would potentially be Carmelo's. Other teams are NOT throwing their best defender on Gallo and Chandler. Other teams aren't double teaming them either. Who did we put on Carmelo yesterday? Chandler our best man to man defender. Did he stop Carmelo? Nope but he did make him work harder. The difference between Melo and Chandler or Gallo is that if you drape a good defender over them they become almost a non factor on offense.

- Carmelo easily scores in the flow of the offense because his mid range jumper is one of the best in the game. If you haven't noticed Amare holds the ball too sometimes. Of course when the offense is ran through you and you dont have a fellow star to play with the ball will stick. Amare uses some of the same moves Carmelo does. Amare will catch the ball then face up the defender do a few jab steps then hoist a jumper if the defender gives him space. If the defender plays up close Amare drives by him.

- I think you are over thinking this whole thing. Simply by having Carmelo means we can always have a star presence on the floor without plays him 40+ minutes. This means less scoring droughts and more rest during the season to make an extended playoff run. This is what Miami does now. They sub out Bosh early in the 1st so 2 of their big 3 are always on the floor.

kingofelpaso wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo put up 31 pts and grabbed 13 boards.

Amare put up 30 pts and grabbed 8 boards.

Last time I checked Denver lost by 4 points.

The Knicks supporting cast outplayed Denver's supporting cast today. Neither team played good defense.

This offense isnt balanced. We lived by the 3 tonight combined with Amare beasting. Denver penetrated and scored layups.

Source: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=301212018

You're glossing over essential information. Carmelo shot poorly, 11 for 27 is brutal to your team. And all those points in the paint? That wasn't Carmelo, that was Nene.

Getting Carmelo doesn't solve our post defense problems. Nene (and basically any of the West coast teams) will have their way with us in the paint. Getting a player like Carmelo doesn't solve any of that.

Nene is not a 28 pt and 8 reb player. He is a 15 and 7 player.

Carmelo can score 30 points every night if he wanted. Can Nene will himself to 27 and 8 every night. I dont think so.

This was ONE game where Carmelo was coming back from an injury. Of course you dont want to acknowledge that even though Carmelo shot poorly he was able to get to the line and convert 100% of his 9 free throws or that he grabbed 13 boards.

If Gallo could contribute like that CONSISTENTLY on bad shooting nights people here would be doing somersaults.

Youre missing the point. No one is doubting the kind of numbers that Melo can put up. As far as I can see, everyone here is acknowledging that he can score easily and get to the line.

What youre missing is that he is not the kind of player who can continue to put up those numbers within the flow of the offense. He also does not fit a need of this team. He is the anti-Landry Fields!

Melo is the kind of player who requires two dozen shots per night to get to his 25 point average. That takes higher percentage shots away from Amare.

Please tell me what it is that Carmelo Anthony provides that the Knicks have not sufficiently received this season from the combination of Wilson Chandler and Gallinari?

There has been no problem scoring. No problem with the two of them rebounding sufficiently. Neither requires the ball constantly to make an impact. Both provide countless intangibles that do not show up on the box score but help to create wins.

I dont want to see either Chandler or Gallinari leave.

Right now, Chandler is doing everything that Anthony could, with the addition of shot blocking and improved defense.

Gallinari stretches defenses away from Amare to let him and Felton play their 2 man game. Even if he has been inconsistent from 3 point range, teams are hesitant to leave him because of the shooting threat that he presents. Melo simply isnt a long distance threat.

This is not to even start mentioning that both players come at about half the cost of signing Carmelo, leaving the team open to add other more important missing parts, like a defensive center, for example.

Did any of that happen during the game Sunday? Seems like Melo took his 27 shots and got his 30 points. I didnt see Melo's star quality make it harder to deal with the other Nuggets. Add to that we already have our star, and if teams are going to smother Amare as they did in the first half they can watch Chandler light them up. Or Gallo. Or Fields. Or Felton. We have a balanced attack anchored by a star player on offense.

I admit I flip flop on Melo all the time. He's a beast for sure and wants to be in NY. Its hard not to love that. Flip side is we have really good young players at the same positions. Add to that that Melo will cost us twice. First he will cost us rotation players and prospects. Then he will eat up all our cap space costing us any FAs. I dont know who will be available via trade, but you can do some exotic trades with cap space. What if OK4 is available? Or even Tyson Chandler? Some kind of defensive 5. You could get someone like AND give Chandler an extension for the cost of one Melo. Its very far from clear cut that Melo is the guy you go with in that scenario

kingofelpaso wrote:
1) What we've seen in recent weeks is that Amare tends to come on strong later in games after he's found his touch after a number of previous other attempts. I would suggest that Melo is the same way. There simply arnt enough shots for both to take the kind of shots per game that they would need in order to put up the kind of numbers we have come to expect from Amare and that you are estimating Carmelo will provide.

2) The way this team is set up, running the two man game between Amare and Felton is enough so that it gets players open looks. Most, if not all of Carmelo's points come off of 1 vs. 1 isolation plays or 1 vs. 2 isolations plays. The fact that Amare commands a double down low is enough to pull away a defender who would otherwise have a hand in the face of Chandler or Gallo. See for example the big 3 that Chandler hit at the end of this recent game.

3)Carmelo does have a silky smooth midrange jumper, but he is not a catch a shoot player. Most of those shots come after a few dribbles and an attempt to take his man and possibly someone else's off the dribble. This comes at the expense of ball movement and we've already seen enough times when the team is content to sit around and watch Amare try those moves. They've gotten away from that as a team and thats a good thing. No need to bring in another player who might bring up the same tendencies. Also, the fact that Amare likes to make similar plays means we already have a player who works in that context, no need for another. I simply dont see Melo as a distributor or facilitator, although I would love to be proven wrong.

4) I agree that the Knicks need added scoring off the bench to prevent scoring droughts. However, I think the better move is to try to address the need for bench scoring, a defensive presence and a backup PG rather than simply only looking to add another superstar.

- Amare and Melo dont need 18 FGA per game playing together. Lebron and Wade both averaged 20 FGA last year. This year Lebron is averaging 17 FGA per game and Wade is averaging 16 FGA per game. The amount of shots is not important.

- How does Gallo score points? He shoots jumpers and gets to the line. How does Chandler score points? He shoots jumpers and gets to the line. Carmelo shoots jumpers and gets to the line. I dont understand what you are talking about? Carmelo gets ISO's to keep the double team from coming.

- If you dont think Carmelo can catch in shoot you obviously haven't seen him play much. Carmelo doesnt need to put the ball on the floor to shoot.

- This team in it's current form is not a contender even with another defensive big and a backup PG.

martin wrote:Here is what Melo brings that Chandler and Gallo (in combination or by themselves) have not yet proven they can duplicate:

1) Carrying a team offensively for wins. Whether is be for a stretch of games during the regular season or during a stretch of a game during playoffs (especially when a guy like Amare is one bench).
2) Right now both Gallo and Chandler are very good MDA system guys but very much unproven otherwise.
3) Melo gets the superstar status calls, treatments etc. which is necessary during playoffs.

However, they do have positives that Melo does not:

1) Cost a lot less, so this means you can fill other holes
2) Play much better defense
3) Are still maturing and may indeed fill enough of the Melo role outlined above.
4) 2 Players better than 1 all things being equal (more fouls, more minutes, etc).

so can’t we also say that melo is proven on teams that are built around his dominating the ball but that he’s very much unproven as an mda system guy. certainly the olympics or worlds don’t count since mda was not the head coach and lebron and wade made everybody else's roles much easier.