arkrud wrote:

misterearl wrote:"Even though the American White supremacy movement was founded in Christian fundamentalism, and even though George W. Bush claimed to have "visions" from his Christian God to go to Iraq and kill over 100,000 INNOCENT Iraqis, even though Timothy McVeigh was born into the Christian faith, we would never think for a millisecond that Jesus Christ or any verses of the bible were the cause of these horrendous, stupid acts of men. Therefore it is un-American and against everything that we believe in as a country to associate the 1.6 billion Muslims or 23% of the world's population with the acts of a few, very evil men. I pray that all of the Muslims who might hate Christians because of George Bush's actions, or the blacks or Jews or non-Whites who might hate Christians because of the historical genocide of their people, or the Christians who might hate Muslims for the acts of Osama bin Laden and his culprits, I hope they know that the overriding theme of Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Abraham and Lord Buddha was to love all people of all races and all religions.

I conclude with this story. Recently the organization of which I am the Chairman of, The Foundation For Ethnic Understanding, held a twinning program where we had European Imams and Rabbis visit the United States and hold meetings at the White House, New York City Hall and the United Nations. At the UN in my speech, I mentioned a passage from the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna tells Arjuna whether he knows him by the name Krishna or not, it is unimportant, as all he needs to do is follow certain principles and he will come to him. When I got off the stage the Imam from Geneva gave me his prayer beads, told me that he loved the verse from the yogic scripture and reminded me that the same sentiment about God loving all people, from all faiths, exists in the Quran.

Now that we have politicized Park 51 and the world is watching, there can be no wavering of our support of the first amendment and in turn, the proposed community center. Build it."

- Russell Simmons

The religion is not the think to blame. The knowledge of Devine or nature is neutral.
The ones who turn this knowledge into good or evil are people who use it.
Muslim people of the world will be ALL hold accountable for the crimes committed in the name of Islam until they will stand up and get read themselves and the World from their criminal fundamentalist leaders.
So far they are supporting them in all their crimes and genocides in Darfur, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Chechnya, Palestine, Somalia, US, and all over the World.
Not allowing them to build this Mose is another message to ALL Muslims to wake up to the reality of the New World without violence and fear and stop their drive back to the Dark ages.

This statement lacks logic of any kind. Its incredibly hypocritical. The more I read it over and over again, the less sense it makes. The only thing I can say in your defense is that a lot of Russian people who live in NYC are against it and its probably because the Russian press is mostly against it. However, even in the Russian newspapers, there are some journalists that support the Mosque. IMHO, only the people who don't really understand what America stands for can be against the Mosque.

ramtour420 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

misterearl wrote:"Even though the American White supremacy movement was founded in Christian fundamentalism, and even though George W. Bush claimed to have "visions" from his Christian God to go to Iraq and kill over 100,000 INNOCENT Iraqis, even though Timothy McVeigh was born into the Christian faith, we would never think for a millisecond that Jesus Christ or any verses of the bible were the cause of these horrendous, stupid acts of men. Therefore it is un-American and against everything that we believe in as a country to associate the 1.6 billion Muslims or 23% of the world's population with the acts of a few, very evil men. I pray that all of the Muslims who might hate Christians because of George Bush's actions, or the blacks or Jews or non-Whites who might hate Christians because of the historical genocide of their people, or the Christians who might hate Muslims for the acts of Osama bin Laden and his culprits, I hope they know that the overriding theme of Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Abraham and Lord Buddha was to love all people of all races and all religions.

I conclude with this story. Recently the organization of which I am the Chairman of, The Foundation For Ethnic Understanding, held a twinning program where we had European Imams and Rabbis visit the United States and hold meetings at the White House, New York City Hall and the United Nations. At the UN in my speech, I mentioned a passage from the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna tells Arjuna whether he knows him by the name Krishna or not, it is unimportant, as all he needs to do is follow certain principles and he will come to him. When I got off the stage the Imam from Geneva gave me his prayer beads, told me that he loved the verse from the yogic scripture and reminded me that the same sentiment about God loving all people, from all faiths, exists in the Quran.

Now that we have politicized Park 51 and the world is watching, there can be no wavering of our support of the first amendment and in turn, the proposed community center. Build it."

- Russell Simmons

The religion is not the think to blame. The knowledge of Devine or nature is neutral.
The ones who turn this knowledge into good or evil are people who use it.
Muslim people of the world will be ALL hold accountable for the crimes committed in the name of Islam until they will stand up and get read themselves and the World from their criminal fundamentalist leaders.
So far they are supporting them in all their crimes and genocides in Darfur, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Chechnya, Palestine, Somalia, US, and all over the World.
Not allowing them to build this Mose is another message to ALL Muslims to wake up to the reality of the New World without violence and fear and stop their drive back to the Dark ages.

This statement lacks logic of any kind. Its incredibly hypocritical. The more I read it over and over again, the less sense it makes. The only thing I can say in your defense is that a lot of Russian people who live in NYC are against it and its probably because the Russian press is mostly against it. However, even in the Russian newspapers, there are some journalists that support the Mosque. IMHO, only the people who don't really understand what America stands for can be against the Mosque.

So explain to us Russians what America is stands for? Letting people spread fear around the world without keeping them accountable?
Russia answered this question in Chechnya by blowing the terrorists and their breeding ground from the face of the earth.
Liberalism leads to Buchenwald’s and Hiroshima’s. But I guess you will find not much logic in this also.
Will it be appropriate to build Christian church in Srebrenica where thousands of Muslim was murdered by Serbs? I would say hell no.

BasketballJones wrote:I'm sorry, but I just don't think this is really about ground zero. As I said earlier, this is part of a larger trend of intolerance. There is an article about this in the Washington Post today Far from Ground Zero, other plans for mosques run into vehement opposition.

What explains the opposition to these other mosques? Is Tennessee too close to Ground Zero too?

Precisely. Ground Zero is the red herring being used by the right wing propaganda machine to legitimize the same intolerance.

arkrud wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

misterearl wrote:"Even though the American White supremacy movement was founded in Christian fundamentalism, and even though George W. Bush claimed to have "visions" from his Christian God to go to Iraq and kill over 100,000 INNOCENT Iraqis, even though Timothy McVeigh was born into the Christian faith, we would never think for a millisecond that Jesus Christ or any verses of the bible were the cause of these horrendous, stupid acts of men. Therefore it is un-American and against everything that we believe in as a country to associate the 1.6 billion Muslims or 23% of the world's population with the acts of a few, very evil men. I pray that all of the Muslims who might hate Christians because of George Bush's actions, or the blacks or Jews or non-Whites who might hate Christians because of the historical genocide of their people, or the Christians who might hate Muslims for the acts of Osama bin Laden and his culprits, I hope they know that the overriding theme of Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Abraham and Lord Buddha was to love all people of all races and all religions.

I conclude with this story. Recently the organization of which I am the Chairman of, The Foundation For Ethnic Understanding, held a twinning program where we had European Imams and Rabbis visit the United States and hold meetings at the White House, New York City Hall and the United Nations. At the UN in my speech, I mentioned a passage from the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna tells Arjuna whether he knows him by the name Krishna or not, it is unimportant, as all he needs to do is follow certain principles and he will come to him. When I got off the stage the Imam from Geneva gave me his prayer beads, told me that he loved the verse from the yogic scripture and reminded me that the same sentiment about God loving all people, from all faiths, exists in the Quran.

Now that we have politicized Park 51 and the world is watching, there can be no wavering of our support of the first amendment and in turn, the proposed community center. Build it."

- Russell Simmons

The religion is not the think to blame. The knowledge of Devine or nature is neutral.
The ones who turn this knowledge into good or evil are people who use it.
Muslim people of the world will be ALL hold accountable for the crimes committed in the name of Islam until they will stand up and get read themselves and the World from their criminal fundamentalist leaders.
So far they are supporting them in all their crimes and genocides in Darfur, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Chechnya, Palestine, Somalia, US, and all over the World.
Not allowing them to build this Mose is another message to ALL Muslims to wake up to the reality of the New World without violence and fear and stop their drive back to the Dark ages.

This statement lacks logic of any kind. Its incredibly hypocritical. The more I read it over and over again, the less sense it makes. The only thing I can say in your defense is that a lot of Russian people who live in NYC are against it and its probably because the Russian press is mostly against it. However, even in the Russian newspapers, there are some journalists that support the Mosque. IMHO, only the people who don't really understand what America stands for can be against the Mosque.

So explain to us Russians what America is stands for? Letting people spread fear around the world without keeping them accountable?
Russia answered this question in Chechnya by blowing the terrorists and their breeding ground from the face of the earth.
Liberalism leads to Buchenwald’s and Hiroshima’s. But I guess you will find not much logic in this also.
Will it be appropriate to build Christian church in Srebrenica where thousands of Muslim was murdered by Serbs? I would say hell no.

. . . I am a Russian citizen (as well as American one) and I read Russian newspapers, so I see where your point of view comes from directly. If you want an explanation of what America stands for you can read the previous posts in this thread or just read the Constitution. I will not explain it to you. As for Russians getting their asses royally handed to them by a tiny Chechnya twice (and then getting attacked countless times by their terrorists as a result)I am not sure where you are headed with that or how its relevant tho. Liberalism is a "bad" word obviously and it leads to evil things like the BP oil spill and the hole in the ozone layer(see i can speak using mindless phrazes not connected with any kind of meaning too) Violence should not be used to achieve any goal, and the history supports this. Do I see logic in what you are saying? I read the same newspapers, so yes. I also see that your analogies are atrocious and that you are comparing this free country that suffered through 9/11 to Srebrenica that apparently suffered through a mass genocide and you think that its a good analogy? Please, try not to use analogies and you'll sound a lot smarter.

Muslim Imam for Mosque says US worse than Al Qaeda.

This is from the Post. Can someone please post the article.

joec32033 wrote:http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/us_worse_than_al_qaeda_imam_SowEB14UM2lf3sweUQJo5M

Muslim Imam for Mosque says US worse than Al Qaeda.

This is from the Post. Can someone please post the article.

The Islamic cleric who wants to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero once claimed in a jaw-dropping speech that the United States has killed more innocent civilians than al Qaeda.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's remarks five years ago have set off a fresh firestorm of controversy, dumping fuel on the already combustible debate surrounding the estimated $100 million Islamic cultural center, and infuriating mosque opponents, who are fighting to have it moved far from the site of the 9/11 attacks.

"We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims," Rauf said in 2005.

AP
HE SAID WHAT? Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who decried Muslim blood on US hands, is hosted at the US Embassy in Bahrain Sunday.
"You may remember that the US-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations."

Rauf -- who made the incendiary comments in a speech about Islam in Adelaide, Australia -- said that even former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, whom he called a "friend," condoned the civilian deaths as "worth it."

"What complicates the discussion, intra-Islamically, is the fact that the West has not been cognizant and has not addressed the issue of its own contribution to much injustice in the Arab and Muslim world," he said. "It's a difficult subject to discuss with Western audiences, but it's one that must be pointed out and must be raised."

In the same speech, Rauf used the n-word, according to an audio of the event posted on the Web site AtlasShrugs.

Speaking about how people use different criteria to judge others in a negative way, he said, "If gender is not what distinguishes us, we'll look at skin coloring and say: n - - - - rs or whities, or whatever."

Debra Burlingame, head of 9/11 Families for a Strong America and a vocal opponent of the mosque, said she was disgusted when she heard the remarks.

"This man is out there preaching politics and advancing [anti-American] propaganda," she said.

Rauf has repeatedly claimed plans to build the Islamic center stem from his group's desire to promote tolerance. He routinely speaks out against terrorism, and famously spoke at murdered journalist Daniel Pearl's memorial service to advocate peace.

"Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam," he said in a 2001 "60 Minutes" interview.

Meanwhile, Gov. Paterson and Archbishop Timothy Dolan are set to hold a private discussion at the governor's office today over the mosque. While no agenda was announced, both have previously suggested an alternative site for the mosque.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/us_worse_than_al_qaeda_imam_SowEB14UM2lf3sweUQJo5M#ixzz0xWY8Gssx

I am staying out of this but a quick weigh in, that guy really didn't think that one through if he was aiming for support. Much more fuel for the opposition and a uniting factor for them to boot. Also an I told you so factor.

Just for the record I am against it. I understand the whole freedom to do it thing but the builders should have had more tact with this. Powder keg just waiting to happen.

Just because you may be free to piss people off, either purposely or not, does not shield you from the consequences of your actions. Other people have the exact same rights.

While legal, this whole thing seems kinda classless to me.

- President George W. Bush, April 30, 2002

...As none other than Rupert Murdoch's New York Post reported last May, the Kingdom Foundation, al-Waleed's personal charity, has donated a total of $305,000 to Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow....Al-Waleed owns a 7 percent, $2.3 billion stake in News Corporation. Likewise, News Corporation owns a 9 percent, $70 million stake — purchased in February — in Rotana, Al-Waleed's Saudi media conglomerate. Put another way: Rupert Murdoch and Fox News are in business, to the tune of billions of dollars, with one of the "Terror Mosque Imam's" principal patrons.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition

So much for the MS theory of cash coming from countries that are not allies of the United States.

Fox News is only in the game for the ratings, payola and political power

I am against the building of an Islamic Cultural Center/Extremist Mosque terrorist training ground because ____________________.

Someone please finish that sentence.