knickstorrents wrote:He is not worth trading for at all... the only reason we'd have to trade is if he signs an extension... and guess what guys, he ain't signing anything!

He's only worth it to me if we sign him outright for nothing. If Denver fleeces another team for assets, we sign him from the new team when he's up for free agency in a year.

Also, as I've said countless times before, Carmelo is not a franchise, build your team around type player. He is definitely tier 2.... he will not make us a championship contender even if he comes OUTRIGHT. Look at Denver before and after Chauncey to see what I mean. Carmelo doesn't make his teammates better, he doesn't block shots, he stops the offense's flow. He is a volume scorer who shoots a low percentage for a forward. For comparison, Lebron shoots 5 percentage points higher (45% vs 50%), gets you 5 more assists, and gets you more steals, rebounds, and blocks.

The same people who like this guy must love allen iverson too. And guess what - iverson never won anything either.

Yeah cuz Iverson was crap. He only carried his team for what, 15 years? He carried his team to the Finals being the 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd option? That he was continuously regarded as one of the top 3 players in the league his prime? That he was regarded as tje league's best PG for years? That he was regarded as a very strong defender, given his size? That as the best player he was also the one who played with the most hustle and heart on his team? How soon people forget....

Anyway back to the conversation, many all time greats had games similar to Carmelo. Gervin, Bernard King(who is very similar), Paul Pierce.

You should also take a gander at the Iggy thread. Someone (I think fishmike) posted the numbers and it seems Carmelo matches up pretty well defense wise to Iggy and Iggy is known as a very good defender.

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

iSergio wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This smells bad this smells like Gallo AR and Chandler for Melo

if the knicks do anything like this they get what they deserve

they will be capped out with a thin roster and no picks

Nah it won't be all 3. 2/3 at most and most likely imho.

And if we are winning 55 games every year and a title contender with Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, who cares about picks and the 10th-12th man?

If I was in charge its pretty simple-- Gallo and AR are off the table. If that means no Melo--that that is fine with me. I can be patient for on yer and enjoy the team we have now. Right now Denver can really get top value. Just because Melp says NY or whatever doesnt mean he would accept a Dallas or LAetc.. what does that mean--NY will continually have to 1 UP the offer.

if I believe Gallo can be a 22-5-5 player Randolph an 18-11-3 player and Chandler a 20-5-4 player well its not worth it to me. Randolph provides basically the only shot blocking we have---we could get worse by trading for Melo depending on who it may be.

C Anthony was on a stacked team---how many times did they go the the finals?

If I dont get him in FA I hope that another etams trumps any offer that we give. C Anthony is not a make or break player. Older fans will recall a better player the Knicks had Bernard King and we had some decent other pieces made us just a competitive team and Melo is not King in his prime.

I swear some people love potential and what if's as opposed to reality. Reality tells me that Anthony averaged 28-6-3 last year. Speaking of what if's, what if Gallo's back flares up again because usually back dont get better, they get worse.

While I admire your youthful enthusiasm, Briggs when was the las time a team boasted 4 20 point scorers? Yeah potentially those guys may be able to do that, but it won't happen on this team with them all together. None of those guys are option 1 to begin with. My projections for the guys you stated this season....

Wil- 15-6 reb.-1 blk.

Gallo- 18- 6- 2ast.- 1 blk.

Randolph- 12- 8- 4 ast.- 2 blks.

Gallo may average more because he is probably option 2 and je can hit the three.

joec32033 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

iSergio wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This smells bad this smells like Gallo AR and Chandler for Melo

if the knicks do anything like this they get what they deserve

they will be capped out with a thin roster and no picks

Nah it won't be all 3. 2/3 at most and most likely imho.

And if we are winning 55 games every year and a title contender with Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, who cares about picks and the 10th-12th man?

If I was in charge its pretty simple-- Gallo and AR are off the table. If that means no Melo--that that is fine with me. I can be patient for on yer and enjoy the team we have now. Right now Denver can really get top value. Just because Melp says NY or whatever doesnt mean he would accept a Dallas or LAetc.. what does that mean--NY will continually have to 1 UP the offer.

if I believe Gallo can be a 22-5-5 player Randolph an 18-11-3 player and Chandler a 20-5-4 player well its not worth it to me. Randolph provides basically the only shot blocking we have---we could get worse by trading for Melo depending on who it may be.

C Anthony was on a stacked team---how many times did they go the the finals?

If I dont get him in FA I hope that another etams trumps any offer that we give. C Anthony is not a make or break player. Older fans will recall a better player the Knicks had Bernard King and we had some decent other pieces made us just a competitive team and Melo is not King in his prime.

I swear some people love potential and what if's as opposed to reality. Reality tells me that Anthony averaged 28-6-3 last year. Speaking of what if's, what if Gallo's back flares up again because usually back dont get better, they get worse.

While I admire your youthful enthusiasm, Briggs when was the las time a team boasted 4 20 point scorers? Yeah potentially those guys may be able to do that, but it won't happen on this team with them all together. None of those guys are option 1 to begin with. My projections for the guys you stated this season....

Wil- 15-6 reb.-1 blk.

Gallo- 18- 6- 2ast.- 1 blk.

Randolph- 12- 8- 4 ast.- 2 blks.

Gallo may average more because he is probably option 2 and je can hit the three.

I'd agree that Briggs is way off on Chandler. He's shown flashes, but no consistency, and no sign of becoming consistent and stepping it up to the next level. Perhaps injuries are part of the problem holding him back, but I don't think so. He is going to have a nice career, but is no star.

However, Randolph and Gallo are both young enough and have shown the potential to be real, on court impact type stars. I'd rather keep both and roll the dice to see if they turn out to be such.

Melo is a volume shooter/scorer, not unlike Al Harrington who once upon a time commanded similar salary/trade value.

I think Gallo has proven to be the opposite of Melo- efficient, team player, superb defender. And Gallo has ice in his veins, so when its time to get a clutch basket late in the game, I'm ok with the ball in Gallo's hands.

knickstorrents wrote:He is not worth trading for at all... the only reason we'd have to trade is if he signs an extension... and guess what guys, he ain't signing anything!

He's only worth it to me if we sign him outright for nothing. If Denver fleeces another team for assets, we sign him from the new team when he's up for free agency in a year.

Also, as I've said countless times before, Carmelo is not a franchise, build your team around type player. He is definitely tier 2.... he will not make us a championship contender even if he comes OUTRIGHT. Look at Denver before and after Chauncey to see what I mean. Carmelo doesn't make his teammates better, he doesn't block shots, he stops the offense's flow. He is a volume scorer who shoots a low percentage for a forward. For comparison, Lebron shoots 5 percentage points higher (45% vs 50%), gets you 5 more assists, and gets you more steals, rebounds, and blocks.

The same people who like this guy must love allen iverson too. And guess what - iverson never won anything either.

I don't know what planet you live on but on this one, a 26 year old who averages 28.2 ppg (6 ppg in the 4th quarter), 6.6 rpg, 3.2 apg and 1.3 spg IS a franchise player.

TheGame wrote:Articles now are saying that the offer is Gallo, Curry, and a future first round pick for Melo. That is a fair deal and should leave us with enough talent to compete for a title this year. A team of Felton, Chandler, Melo, Amare, and Turiaf/Randolph would be no worst than the thrid best team in the East, and we would still have guys like Douglas, Fields, and Walker developing to strenghten our bench.

Get er done Walsh.

Exactly. That would be a A+ trade. And for fans like BRIGGS who get hardon's for young players, we would still have 6 players under 25 (Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, Landry Fields and Timofey Mozgov).

TheGame wrote:Articles now are saying that the offer is Gallo, Curry, and a future first round pick for Melo. That is a fair deal and should leave us with enough talent to compete for a title this year. A team of Felton, Chandler, Melo, Amare, and Turiaf/Randolph would be no worst than the thrid best team in the East, and we would still have guys like Douglas, Fields, and Walker developing to strenghten our bench.

Get er done Walsh.

gallo tantalizes because of his intriguing sets of strengths and his size, but i have real questions about his ever putting the whole package together.

knickstorrents wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Anyway back to the conversation, many all time greats had games similar to Carmelo. Gervin, Bernard King(who is very similar), Paul Pierce.

You should also take a gander at the Iggy thread. Someone (I think fishmike) posted the numbers and it seems Carmelo matches up pretty well defense wise to Iggy and Iggy is known as a very good defender.

It's funny you are good at making my point. All the players you mention are actually superior to Carmelo and yet 2 of the 3 never made it to the finals - Gervin was never part of a championship team (though he was a career 50% shooter), Bernard King (also a 50% shooter) never won a championship. Paul Pierce is a good comparison (shoots a comparable percentage) and he was only able to make it with the help of Ray Allen and KG.

My point is - Carmelo is not worth gutting the team for. The Celtics were able to build a contender by the net addition of two superstars to their own star in Pierce. Doing musical chairs style trades to get offensive talents like Carmelo is NOT going to get us closer to a ring.

I never said I would gut the team for Carmelo. My ideal trade for him is Curry, Chandler, a guy like Walker or TD and maybe a 1st.

Realistically, I know we have to give up Randolph or Gallo and I would prefer to give up Randolph.

As for my comparisons, not one of the guys I mentioned had help. And you have the luxury of looking back on their careers as a whole. Melo is still going and is only 26.

I am happy you called out Pierce in my examples because the Celtics gutted their team to get Pierce help. They were left with an unproven Rondo and a couple other role players and minimum guys with Pierce, Allen, and KG. A big 3 of Gallo, Amare, and Melo with guys like Felton and Wilson settling in to play a role is a great situation from where I am sitting.

Not getting caught up in position, but you put a line up of:

Frontcourt: Amare, Melo, Gallo
Back court: Felton, Buke
Bench: Chandler, Turiaf, Mason, Walker, Fields

Looks good to me.

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Michael6835 wrote:This is a no brainer for me. If there is a possibility at all that we can trade for Melo, then we need to get it done. This whole nonsense about lets see how this team will play out is silly. Melo improves this team tremendously, paired with Amare the knicks now present a valid option for the mid tier role players to sign with. The glue guys!

This affinity to hold on to young talent is crazy. This is not like the Marbury trade, where in hindsight your getting a guard past his peak. Melo is still at the top of his game and we have a decent squad to compete. So again, they need to get this done ASAP. The momentum and chemistry the team would have would be tremendous to point where the positive vibes alone should net 10 games.

I don't think so Mike. I think we have some good ballplayers here. What are you going to ask for if you aer Denver--well let me give it you

I want AR Chandler Gallo Fields Curry a future first round pick 2014 and the best of the GS 2's next year---Im being offered a similar deal from Philly. take it or leave it.

The Knicks are almost there- and with some patience we can have Anthony next year, keep the young core we now have, and be looking at a legitimate contender and challenger for the Scheme-Team next season.

Paladin--agree. Randolph AND Gallo gives us 2 players that will differentiate us from other teams. Now we just want to be panicky and swap off two diversified talented 6-11 21+22 years olds who can be stars themselves because fans cant be patient for one year and have it all? Ive been reading on some threads where people would be willing to give Gallo Ar and Chandler + a pick for Carmelo. Why give them a penny? If we picked him up wed spend the next 4 years trying to find players we already had. We will be good this year--we will be exciting maybe better than people realize -- THAN we can USE the cap space we TRADED HEAVILY AND WERE PATIENT for and TO HELP ENHANCE THE TEAM--If we were talking Shaq in his prime--then I would be interested but Carmelo is not a Shaq type player--so I will be patient.

Vmart wrote:Briggs, I don't understand why you keep assuming that Randolph is going to be included in the deal. This Melo deal needs to happen and if parting with Gallo is part of the deal then it has to be done. Even if it is Gallo and Chandler it has to be done. The deal anyway you look at it has to be done. Melo needs to be a Knick. No one wants to give up young talent adding Melo gets the team into the playoffs and takes them deep into the playoffs. With Melo you have a player that requires attention with double teams and constant opposition focus on where he is, this allows Amare more room to operate. It gives the Knicks Knicks two players that require double teaming. Gallo doesn't require a double team.

This is a business and jobs are at stake and wins and losses are the results that everyone is measured by. Melo gets them more wins and secures Walsh's and MDA's job. So far Walsh has made deals that have been decent. I highly doubt that Walsh would trade Randolph and Gallo in a package. He is a shrewd dealer and knows what he is doing. Every move he makes has a solid back up plan.

The deal that is going to go down will include Gallo, Curry, Douglas and Fields and a future number one. The Nuggets are looking for young assets and cap relief.

Are you kidding me, they are not giving up all that for no Melo, I highly doubt the the Magic or the Knicks are gutting there young core, or anything of significants to get melo.

That would essentially rid you of any chance at a title run(this year), getting melo is more like getting the missing piece to solidfy your title chances, if you give up to much, whats the purpose..