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Do you still Believe in Donnie and Mike?
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jimimou
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2/3/2010  11:01 AM
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

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playa2
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2/3/2010  11:08 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:Dolan wouldn't let DW bring in more of his guys to the scouting crew. Dolan decided to keep Zeke's guys. I seem to recall DW had some health issues and wasn't able to travel so he was reliant upon the scouts more. I think DW publically complained so Dolan would let him bring in more of his own guys.

I think you are right about the scouts being Isiah's but I think the health issues were the previous season for the Gallo pick. I am not positive about that but I know Walsh was battling cancer around the time of the 08 draft. In regards to Jennings he did alot to scare teams off. He missed a big work out that scouts were attending in Europe and he was recorded sounding young, immature and thuggish on a show just before the draft. The Knicks with MDA are not going to go after anyone without impeccable character in the draft. D'Antoni should have said that he would play angels over talent instead of his satan comment.

So when did Milwaukee start going after thugs in the draft ? Pretty good character on that team. Jennings was the choice, Skiles and the GM TOOK A CHANCE AND WENT AFTER A FAST BALL AND HIT A HOME RUN.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
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2/3/2010  11:16 AM
Outside of the play the vets and hoped to trade them theory, what happens in the locker room if after trade deadline nobody is moved.Danphoney could lose the team if division develops. Playing the youngin's more minutes will cause a conflict with those on 1 yr contracts...THEY WANT TO SHOW CASE THEIR TALENT FOR THE NEW TEAM !
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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2/3/2010  11:53 AM
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

Knick fans need to wake up. I think LBJ is coming, I really do. But if he doesnt all isnt lost, especially if they get a 2nd tier guy like Bosh or Amare. You still need a PG but go into the season with JJ/Curry's expiring deals and your 2011 pick to trade for one. Baron Davis, Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas are all very pricey guys on losing teams so there is always a shot.

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

3 years after ISiah's mess I would feel pretty positive about where that team was going. All those guys are pretty young too

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
s3231
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2/3/2010  11:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2010  11:55 AM
TMS wrote:
s3231 wrote:Jeez and some of you say you have the stomach to rebuild. Doesn't look like it.

We're on track and both Mike and Donnie are doing their respective jobs so far. There was a poll that someone bumped up from before the season that showed over 80% of us didn't think this was a playoff team. Why are people surprised at the results then? We don't have the talent and balance right now to compete with other teams and if any of you think that we do, then you are just delusional.

If you want to ask this question a year from now, it would make more sense but why question Mike and Donnie when they basically told you that this was going to happen? It's not like Donnie said "we're going to compete in 2009." The primary goal has always been to gain cap space, even if it means sucking for a couple of seasons.

This will be the first off-season that Donnie truly has some flexibility to improve this team. How about we give him a chance to show that his plan could work?

And those that want to blame D'Antoni for the current record are being ridiculous. We all bitch about how flawed this team is and still expect Mike to take this team to the playoffs? Come on now. Would I like to see this team rally and get that 8th seed? Of course, I would. I've watched this team live about a dozen times this season and I can't tell you how many stinkers I've seen in person. Still, I came into this season expecting another transitional year and I can't say that I'm discouraged or surprised by the results. Consequently, it is hard for me to understand why some of you don't have the patience to see this thing through.

speaking for myself, i fully expected this team to suck this year... what i didn't expect was to see veteran scrubs who have absolutely no future on this team getting minutes over both our 1st round picks... i expected MDA to be developing the young guys this year & giving them max burn, not seeing them wasting away on the bench collecting DNP-CD's for much of the season... i posted about that numerous times before the season even started... i wanted this year to be all about trying to get those kids ready for 2010, either to be integral parts of the rotation or to be useful pieces in a possible trade... we were never a playoff calibre team but somehow playing the veterans took complete precedence this season even tho MDA & DW fooled y'all & said it was all about developing the young guys when we passed on signing AI... after the trade deadline if they're unable to dump Fishlips' contract in a trade, what exactly have we accomplished in the first half of the season?

I'm with you on the whole Iverson thing TMS. I was very critical on Donnie for that as it didn't make any sense at all to pass on AI and claim that he would have hurt the development of our young guys. Had this season been about playing the young guys major minutes, I would have agreed with his reasoning but as you correctly pointed out, we have been playing the veterans to win games.

I disagree on giving the young guys max burn though. Hill looked lost as hell in the beginning of the season and even now, he still doesn't demonstrate the necessary basketball IQ to get major minutes (although he is clearly getting better). There is no need to force feed both him and Douglas minutes right now as we don't have a pick this season and have strong incentives to win as many games as possible. As you can see, D'Antoni is starting to give Hill minutes because Jordan is starting to demonstrate that he deserves the playing time. There is nothing wrong with making your young guys earn their minutes.

I think Donnie has made it clear that his primary goal for this season was to clear as much cap space as possible while making this team attractive to potential free agents. Developing young guys is clearly an additional priority but you can argue that we are making progress in that area with Gallo and Wilson. Keep in mind that Hill and Douglas are not the only young guys on this roster. If we make the playoffs by some miarcle this season, we become much more attractive to free agents so I cannot blame D'Antoni for playing the veterans big minutes. He has been coaching to win games and he has done a pretty good job with the rotation as far as putting us in the best situation to win games (e.g. benching Nate at the right time, using Hughes effectively in December, putting Nate back into the rotation as he dominated Atlanta to win us a big game).

Even if we are unable to trade Jeffries for expirings, I still think there are several good things that have come out of the 1st half of the season.

1. We have preserved our cap space for 2010. This isn't an easy goal to accomplish in NY as evidenced by this thread. There is an easy temptation to deviate from the plan and go for the quick fix. Donnie has stuck to his guns though and made us a big player in what could possibly be the best free agent class in NBA history.

2. David Lee has turned into an all-star caliber player. Say what you want about his defense but if you have been watching the Knicks this season, there is no doubt that Lee has taken a big step forward this season and turned into an impact player. Is he a franchise player? No, he isn't. And yes, Bosh is still better than Lee. With that said, David has shown that he is a keeper and I only wish Walsh had locked him up this past off-season. Still, I don't think many people here thought Lee would become THIS good. Great news for this franchise either way and we still have his birds to bring him back.

3. The development of Gallinari is huge for us. He is showing the potential to possibly be an all-star player for this franchise and I can't emphasize how important that is. Drafting well is a must for any lottery team aspiring to become a contender in this league. We need our draft picks to pan out and so far, Gallo is proving to be a decent pick.

4. After a rocky start, Chandler is demonstrating that he can be a very good player in this league. I was as hard on him as anyone in the forums but Wilson is clearly proving his worth. After settling for too many jumpers in the beginning of the season, he has been getting higher percentage shots and it looks like he has his legs back. Moreover, he is an underrated and versatile defender.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Nalod
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2/3/2010  11:57 AM

Didn't MDA adjust the team to play better defense and slow the transition game down a bit?

This after the 1-9 start.

And, there is a plan. Its not make the playoffs at all costs but do it with cap space next year. lots and Lots of cap space.

The draft pick is like giving away a car you own but don't know what it is but it cost the same. It may be a mini cooper or a Lamborgini. Either way we don't own it and we can't get it back.

So making the playoffs does not matter.

I think its important that we don't destroy our rookies if they are not ready. Letting them play thru blowouts does not help.

WE sit Marbury, We sit Nate, we sit Eddy, we sit Larry in favor of building Wilson and Gallo and hopefully TD and Hill. We sit down high salary guys.

Yeah, I still believe in them. Nobody but Larry had the balls to do whats right.

Childs2Dudley
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2/3/2010  12:10 PM
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

Knick fans need to wake up. I think LBJ is coming, I really do. But if he doesnt all isnt lost, especially if they get a 2nd tier guy like Bosh or Amare. You still need a PG but go into the season with JJ/Curry's expiring deals and your 2011 pick to trade for one. Baron Davis, Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas are all very pricey guys on losing teams so there is always a shot.

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

3 years after ISiah's mess I would feel pretty positive about where that team was going. All those guys are pretty young too

Sorry dude but if we got any of those guys (baron, arenas, ellis), i would go ape**** on donnie. awful players with awful contracts. no thanks to all 3 of them.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
joec32033
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2/3/2010  12:13 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

Knick fans need to wake up. I think LBJ is coming, I really do. But if he doesnt all isnt lost, especially if they get a 2nd tier guy like Bosh or Amare. You still need a PG but go into the season with JJ/Curry's expiring deals and your 2011 pick to trade for one. Baron Davis, Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas are all very pricey guys on losing teams so there is always a shot.

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

3 years after ISiah's mess I would feel pretty positive about where that team was going. All those guys are pretty young too

Sorry dude but if we got any of those guys (baron, arenas, ellis), i would go ape**** on donnie. awful players with awful contracts. no thanks to all 3 of them.


The only one I would honestly even consider is Ellis. He has the tools to really be special, IMO.
~You can't run from who you are.~
franco12
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2/3/2010  12:26 PM
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

Knick fans need to wake up. I think LBJ is coming, I really do. But if he doesnt all isnt lost, especially if they get a 2nd tier guy like Bosh or Amare. You still need a PG but go into the season with JJ/Curry's expiring deals and your 2011 pick to trade for one. Baron Davis, Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas are all very pricey guys on losing teams so there is always a shot.

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

3 years after ISiah's mess I would feel pretty positive about where that team was going. All those guys are pretty young too

Baron/Gilbert or Ellis & Bosh or Amare?

Didn't we already see a very similar line up here?

Crawford and Zach? Granted, those two guys aren't at the same level of the others, but they're not that far off either.

So we add Amare & Baron, or some hideous combo of second tier talent and cast offs.

What do we get? A roster that's locked in and maxed out and able to produce win totals in the 40's.

If they are lucky.

I think I would vomit if we added one of those three back court players.

You can rebuild in NY. Its just no one's tried.

If we were serious about rebuilding, we wouldn't have signed Duhon. Guess what, we wouldn't won 33 games.

And guess what? We would have landed a top five pick and improved the long term prospects of this franchise far better than anything Duhon has shown.

And if we were serious about rebuilding, we'd be playing the rookies a lot more to see if they develop.

As I reflect on Duhon's signing, its a perfect example of how we aren't really trying to rebuild. Dolan and Walsh want it both ways, their cake and to eat it too.

They want to rebuild, but stay competitive.

What is that? That's indecisive.

knickstorrents
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2/3/2010  12:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2010  12:41 PM
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

As constructed, that team won't win a championship. That team needs a shotblocker. Also, the only go-to guys on that roster are Baron, Gilbert, and Ellis... who are all very inefficient players. How many 7 game series would that team win against the elite western teams???

Rose is not the answer.
Nalod
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2/3/2010  12:48 PM
knickstorrents wrote:
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

As constructed, that team won't win a championship. That team needs a shotblocker. Also, the only go-to guys on that roster are Baron, Gilbert, and Ellis... who are all very inefficient players. How many 7 game series would that team win against the elite western teams???

Bosh or Amare does not block shots?

Gallo and Wilson become so much better with talent around them.

With a shot blocker having his back, Dlee also becomes more effective.

Add two allstar talents to this team and watch the chemistry change. It has too.

Knickss208
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2/3/2010  1:00 PM
I dont get what everyone is complaining about here. Show me one person that actually thought we would make the playoffs this year with the team that we have??? I mean come on, just cause they gave us some hope in December, playing crap teams, doesnt mean we are playoff juggernauts.

We always knew we wouldnt make the playoffs. You need to take away the positive. Gallo and Chandler are growing even more. We know we need a PG to run Dantoni's system, and he will have one next year. We are going to make a splash in the offseason this year, and we will have a revamped team.

All Walsh and Dantoni have asked for in their first two years is patience. Lets give them some time and let next year be the true testament.

I mean what did you all think would happen. Even if we made the playoffs, get swept in the first round. Wow, what an accomplishment.

Just hold on guys, there is a plan here.

TMS
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2/3/2010  2:50 PM
s3231 wrote:He has been coaching to win games and he has done a pretty good job with the rotation as far as putting us in the best situation to win games

i don't agree w/u fully on that point... nothing he's done this season as our coach has impressed me at all... i'm giving him a pass because of the fact our roster is severely flawed & 1 dimensional, but some of his rotations have left me scratching my head a ton this season... failing to play 2 of our best defensive players in Hughes & TD during games where the other team's offense was running circles around our team... failing to play 1 of our best offensive players in Nate in other games where we couldn't buy a basket to save our lives... taking guys like Gallo out of the game just when his shot was beginning to fall... playing Bender at all... sticking with certain vets through their bigtime struggles shotmaking this season but having such a quick hook for others... alienating veterans by refusing to communicate with them even after issues were raised by those veterans, almost instigating further frustration unnecessarily when all this could have been easily avoidable... i just don't see the point in a lot of the moves he's made... seems like he could have done a much better job of managing players & allotment of playing time to our rookies this year than what he's shown me so far... i'm hoping after the 18th that there's a noticeable shift in the rotation & that our 2 rooks get a full evaluation before we go into the offseason.

as to all your other points, i agree 100%.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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2/3/2010  3:15 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

Knick fans need to wake up. I think LBJ is coming, I really do. But if he doesnt all isnt lost, especially if they get a 2nd tier guy like Bosh or Amare. You still need a PG but go into the season with JJ/Curry's expiring deals and your 2011 pick to trade for one. Baron Davis, Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas are all very pricey guys on losing teams so there is always a shot.

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

3 years after ISiah's mess I would feel pretty positive about where that team was going. All those guys are pretty young too

Baron/Gilbert or Ellis & Bosh or Amare?

Didn't we already see a very similar line up here?

Crawford and Zach? Granted, those two guys aren't at the same level of the others, but they're not that far off either.

So we add Amare & Baron, or some hideous combo of second tier talent and cast offs.

What do we get? A roster that's locked in and maxed out and able to produce win totals in the 40's.

If they are lucky.

I think I would vomit if we added one of those three back court players.

You can rebuild in NY. Its just no one's tried.

If we were serious about rebuilding, we wouldn't have signed Duhon. Guess what, we wouldn't won 33 games.

And guess what? We would have landed a top five pick and improved the long term prospects of this franchise far better than anything Duhon has shown.

And if we were serious about rebuilding, we'd be playing the rookies a lot more to see if they develop.

As I reflect on Duhon's signing, its a perfect example of how we aren't really trying to rebuild. Dolan and Walsh want it both ways, their cake and to eat it too.

They want to rebuild, but stay competitive.

What is that? That's indecisive.

maybe you missed the part where I said we GET A STAR FREE AGENT.

Gilbert, Ellis and Baron Davis ARE GREAT COMPLIMENTARY PLAYERS.

ONCE WE HAVE SIGNED A STAR FREE AGENT such as Lebron, Bosh or Amare...

THEN IT DOESNT MATTER if you take on big expensive contracts to win/improve because you already have a star and a good young core to compliment.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/3/2010  3:15 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
jimimou wrote:
fishmike wrote:I really dont get the complaints... not at this point. I guess this is what they mean when they say you cant rebuild in NY?

Walsh has come in and done everything right according to a plan. It was very simple. Purge the bad contracts, develop a young core and create space to sign a max player. Along the way he hired winning coach who is established and respected by the elite players in the league (this has been clearly documented).

Now no GM is perfect. Walsh missed on a couple of young PGs last draft that hurt. But he will resign Lee and we will have a good young group of guys in Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill and Douglas to compliment whatever star he chases this summer. If he gets a Lebron, Wade or even Bosh the plan is a success and the turnaround will be dramatic.
You cant so want the team to rebuild and you want it done your way. It just doesnt work like that. Walsh has a good history for building teams and getting good talent out of trades. You dont have to trust him, but it doesnt matter if you do or dont. The plan is in front of us and for once management has been pretty upfront about what that is.

i agree with everything but what's highlighted. In reality, it would be a success, but the fact of the matter is if NY doesnt land Lebron, all hell will break loose perception-wise.

Knick fans need to wake up. I think LBJ is coming, I really do. But if he doesnt all isnt lost, especially if they get a 2nd tier guy like Bosh or Amare. You still need a PG but go into the season with JJ/Curry's expiring deals and your 2011 pick to trade for one. Baron Davis, Monta Ellis and Gilbert Arenas are all very pricey guys on losing teams so there is always a shot.

How many games would this team win? How would you feel about it?
PG Baron, Gilbert or Ellis
SG Chandler 6'8
SF Gallo 6'10
PF Bosh or Amare 6'10
C Lee 6'9

3 years after ISiah's mess I would feel pretty positive about where that team was going. All those guys are pretty young too

Baron/Gilbert or Ellis & Bosh or Amare?

Didn't we already see a very similar line up here?

Crawford and Zach? Granted, those two guys aren't at the same level of the others, but they're not that far off either.

So we add Amare & Baron, or some hideous combo of second tier talent and cast offs.

What do we get? A roster that's locked in and maxed out and able to produce win totals in the 40's.

If they are lucky.

I think I would vomit if we added one of those three back court players.

You can rebuild in NY. Its just no one's tried.

If we were serious about rebuilding, we wouldn't have signed Duhon. Guess what, we wouldn't won 33 games.

And guess what? We would have landed a top five pick and improved the long term prospects of this franchise far better than anything Duhon has shown.

And if we were serious about rebuilding, we'd be playing the rookies a lot more to see if they develop.

As I reflect on Duhon's signing, its a perfect example of how we aren't really trying to rebuild. Dolan and Walsh want it both ways, their cake and to eat it too.

They want to rebuild, but stay competitive.

What is that? That's indecisive.

maybe you missed the part where I said we GET A STAR FREE AGENT.

Gilbert, Ellis and Baron Davis ARE GREAT COMPLIMENTARY PLAYERS.

ONCE WE HAVE SIGNED A STAR FREE AGENT such as Lebron, Bosh or Amare...

THEN IT DOESNT MATTER if you take on big expensive contracts to win/improve because you already have a star and a good young core to compliment.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Moonangie
Posts: 24767
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Joined: 7/9/2009
Member: #2788

2/3/2010  4:59 PM
from RealGM:
Knicks president Donnie Walsh didn't expect the team to play as poorly as they have this season.

"I don't like the way we played, it was a disappointment," Walsh said after practice Tuesday. "I didn't see the intensity, which you have to have at this point. That has to pick up."

The Knicks lost nine of their last 12 games in January and they have a brutal schedule up ahead.

"I didn't expect this," said Walsh. "If we want to compete for a playoff spot, we've got to play with more purpose, more force and more commitment."

Walsh is talking to other teams about trades, but gave no indication that anything is imminent.

Umm... DUH!

Play hard = chance to win.
Play soft = fans look to scapegoat GM or coach or Duhon (who is the poster-boy for soft, ineffectual play). Nuff said. Fix it or lose a LOT of games during the tough stretch ahead, and give a sweet lottery pick to Utah. BLECH!

fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/3/2010  5:08 PM
if the Knicks sign Lebron or Wade... or even if they have a core of Bosh/Gallo/Lee/Chandler there ZERO reason ANYONE should care about taking on salary.

Hearing say they dont want to take on Gilbert or Ellis contracts is just retarded. If you have Lebron or even a group like above with Bosh or Amare how can you care? Your now looking for bigtime players to help you win a title. Who cares what they cost?

Did people care when we gave Dudley like $8mm a year to play 15 minutes a game?
Did people care when we traded for Larry Johnson, who was a shell of his former self? Dude averaged like 12/5 and we were paying him like $12mm a year (12 years ago).
Did people care when we threw huge money at Chris Childs and Allan Houston?

Of course not. We had Ewing and were trying to win a title.

If you have Chandler, Gallo, Lebron and Lee who the phuck cares how much your paying an all star PG? $10mm? $20mm? It makes no difference. Hell... give me OK4 too. Maggette can be my bench scorer. Crank the payroll to $100mm like the good old days. Watch the Knicks in the conference finals like the good old days.

Is it enough for a title?

Dont know... but I would like to find out rather than watch Jordon Farmer run my team and tell myself its better than paying Baron Davis $15mm or Gilber Arenas $17mm. Cause that matters

Dumb

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/3/2010  5:25 PM
Moonangie wrote:
from RealGM:
Knicks president Donnie Walsh didn't expect the team to play as poorly as they have this season.

"I don't like the way we played, it was a disappointment," Walsh said after practice Tuesday. "I didn't see the intensity, which you have to have at this point. That has to pick up."

The Knicks lost nine of their last 12 games in January and they have a brutal schedule up ahead.

"I didn't expect this," said Walsh. "If we want to compete for a playoff spot, we've got to play with more purpose, more force and more commitment."

Walsh is talking to other teams about trades, but gave no indication that anything is imminent.

Umm... DUH!

Play hard = chance to win.
Play soft = fans look to scapegoat GM or coach or Duhon (who is the poster-boy for soft, ineffectual play). Nuff said. Fix it or lose a LOT of games during the tough stretch ahead, and give a sweet lottery pick to Utah. BLECH!


we still have too many lazy players, starting with the guy that runs the team. Duhon just doesnt have enough gas in his tank to sustain and lead a team. In Knick wins he's shooting like 47%, in Knick losses he shoots about 25%. He sets the tone on both ends. He's a decent role player but his motor sucks and this is the 2nd year in a row its cost us. Nate and Hughes arent much better. JJ has played hard but he just isnt good. I am happy with the young core we are moving forward with. This summer we were hoping Gallo would be healthy. Now we are hoping he can be an elite player. Lee had gotten better still and will be resigned for about 100 reasons. Chandler started terrible and has shown great adjustments. He's shooting 50% since moving to SG and scoring and size and defense inside have been great. Dont know about Douglas or Hill but time will.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GodSaveTheKnicks
Posts: 23952
Alba Posts: 21
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Member: #1207
USA
2/4/2010  3:10 PM
As long as we're talking coaches. Tyson Chandler on LB:

BASKETBALL 24/7
People ask what Coach Brown is like when he's not talking basketball and he's a great dude, but the thing is, he's talking basketball 24/7.

There are not too many conversations that you'll have with him that aren't about basketball. He's a very concerned person, but he's 100 percent into basketball.

His impact has been huge. One thing about coach is he's going to bring it and be the same every single day. He will never stop coaching. I don't know if I've ever been around anyone who loves basketball as much as he does and has the passion for it that he does.

It never stops and he'll breakdown everything in footage. He'll breakdown a mistake that a rookie made at the end of the game as if it was the first play of the game that a starter would make. That's one thing I appreciate about him is that he coaches every single player the same.

If you make a mistake, he will correct you. He doesn't care if you're in your 12th year or your first. That attitude trickles down to our team and gives us our character.

Coach Brown has shown me the dedication every day that it takes to be great. It's about understanding the passion and knowledge that you have to have to be great. The way he talks about the game is totally different from anybody I've ever heard talk about it.

The way he breaks things down, the way he looks at mechanics, the way he understands why guys are great scorers or great rebounders. Everything he does is from studying and that's something I have learned from him.

For example, I'll shoot a hook shot or a short jump shot and I'll make it and he’ll come back and say, "Oh Tyson, come on, you have to get the ball in your fingertips."

After he says something like that it feels uncomfortable. But then I'll shoot it and miss it and he'll say, "great shot." Your first reaction is to say: "What are you talking about, great shot? I just missed that."

But I've come to the realization that he understands that it doesn't matter if you miss it that particular time. If you continue to shoot the ball the right way and you get to the point where you shoot the same way every single time, you're going to make a higher percentage. It works out better than if you're shooting half the time one-way and half the time another.

It's just stuff like that that he's a stickler on. He's a stickler on you doing things the right way every single time.

You have to have a team that's receptive to his coaching and his coaching style. Guys have to be willing to learn every day because he's not going to stop teaching. If you're the type of person that at some point wants that voice to go away, it's not.

Every player I've talked to that has ever played for him says: "You're going to understand how great he is when you don't have him."

It can be tough for guys being coached non-stop because a lot of players have never had that in their career. But when you're on a different team and away from him, you look back and realize that he was just an incredible coach. Every guy I've talked to has said I'll learn more than I've ever learned just playing for him and it's true.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
jimimou
Posts: 23517
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Member: #681
USA
2/4/2010  3:24 PM
^^^great find. i agree. if the knicks dropped marbury and zeek instead of ousting larry, this franchise would have never had to endure their recent embarrassments.
Do you still Believe in Donnie and Mike?

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