PresIke wrote:

Marv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nate was resigned by the Knicks after MDA had coached him the previous season. Do you think Walsh would resign a guy that MDA views as having such poor character he that he would banish him from the team? I think the reality is that MDA cannot coach guys who rock the boat in any way. I also think he struggles to communicate with that type of player and if allowed just banishes them until they are traded or waived. This is a major fault and puts Walsh in a very bad position. I think Walsh needs to either fire him or make him play Nate. There should be a balance of power between the coach and gm. I think Gallo is a Knick because of the coach. I think Nate and Dlee were resigned with the coaches blessing. Walsh needs to find out if MDA can coach anyone other than an all star level player with tremendous character.

they probably gave nate one more chance, having little to lose with a one-year deal. he failed early on this one.

i'm honestly surprised and disappointed at several of the comments here i'm reading so far, other than the two "good riddance" comments (not surprised) i said to myself someone would write as soon as i read that nate wanted to be traded.

look, i don't really get what is so shocking to folks.

i find it somewhat ironic that many fans here have been screaming for accountability, but when someone like nate who has gotten oodles of chances to show he has matured -- clearly one of the major reasons the knicks re-signed him, as well as as an asset -- and still has not show significant improvement, now mda and walsh are being unfair, and this is marbury part duex?

can i just say...

WOW.

and maybe we should rename this the nypost knicks fan forum.

I'm really disappointed in us as fans if we can't see that nate had to know that he has had multiple chances, was on a short leash, and then begged to come back to prove himself...but still has not...

what were folks expecting?

i am a huge proponent of giving players chances on a team, which mda clearly did with nate, and used a lot of well supported ideas about how to get the most out of someone...like positive re-enforcement...

meanwhile we're playing much better, 5-3 since an atrocious start, and we can only look at what we're on "track" to have as a record in basically a throw away year, and where we are looking no where near like the team that started 1-9.

are things perfect or good?

not saying that, but i do not see as much nuance as i would expect from folks here.

Pres, the point i'm making is we should not have let this situation get to this point to begin with... Nate should have been traded last year... if MDA didn't want Nate on this team we shouldn't have even re-signed him to begin with... if the plan was to get some value out of him in a trade then benching him was the wrong way to go... any way u wanna look at it, all this could have been easily avoided... IMO MDA acting out & making an example of Nate is not really serving the best interests of our franchise... i've been the most vocal person on these forums about Nate's idiotic behavior, but a 1-2 game benching would have been enough to get the point across... benching him for 8 games has pretty much made him out to be a Pariah & now even if teams were even remotely interested in Nate before, why would they bother trading for him now? they could just wait til Nate is waived & sign him for a veteran's minimum just like what happened to A.I. in Memphis.

guys, just cuz some people aren't happy w/the way MDA handled this situation doesn't mean we're not allowed to voice our opinions & doesn't make us MDA or Donnie Walsh haters... i swear any slight hint of negativity that's uttered on these forums gets you labelled as a hater... it gets old.

However, his act has worn out it's welcome; becoming old and played out. I am glad the coach grew a pair and benched him. Seeing how Dantoni handled Marbury; Nate may never play another minute for the team and I could care less. Had Dantoni allowed Nate to continue, the whole team would be partying and dancing after every loss and we would get no respect. The NBA has turned to crap- it's all about entertainment and making money now. What ever happened to professionalism and winning? Something needs to be done. I choose not to donate a penny towards these clowns (game tickets), although I am suckered with my cablevision subscription and NYK skull cap I bought at Modells for 17.99 (I grew up with 90's team and reminice).

Nate shows no respect for anyone. He seems to only care about entertaining, grabbing as much spotlight and attention as possible with little emphasis on winning. I became fed up with him dancing and cracking jokes with the rest of the team on the bench on a daily basis while we are down 20 points and loosing each game. I went to school and hung out with kids like Nate. Love the attention, love to be cool, start fights, maybe rob and punch someone in the face who is unwiling to defend themselves, give everyone the evil eye, crack jokes, put people down. ADD or not, he knows what he is doing and refuses to mature, respect himself and his team. Funny, how we don't hear about any issues on the bench or the locker room from him. All of a sudden he LEANRED to be a good soldier? Nate is a selfish, athletically gifted, extremely talented player, but not a winner until he chooses to grow up. As a fan, I take the losing personally and would definitely take it even more to heart as a member of the team. Shooting at the other teams basket, dancing, cracking jokes while we are 3-14; SAD, but good for him he's on the bench. NO respect or care for anyone. He can probbly put all this aside by being a professional for the team and not a selfish clown for himself. Communicating, respect and an emphasis on winning rather than dancing and joking would render fruitful.

Anyone with a brain would have spoken to him about his immaturity and selfish acts. I am sure Dantoni (who I am no fan of) communicated with him on several occassions. Remember the "concealed weapon" comment he made to the media last year?

orangeblobman wrote:Papabear - you are a little off if you think this is 'the worst coached team'. After starting 1-9, this team is 8-8 and 6-4 in last 10, with a handful of very close losses that could have gone our way (Boston, Bobcats, and Bulls come to mind). This is a playoff team, which is nothing short of amazing given the current roster. What does Isiah's championship as a player have to do with his coaching? Isiah was by far the worst GM in the history of the NBA and not much better as a coach. To say that MDA is the worst Knicks coach ever is nothing short of insane.

Nate has very little value to begin with. No one wanted to sign him this offseason and I doubt anyone wants to trade for him. This isn't MDA's fault. Nate's goofball attitude is well known around the league and let's face it, the guy is 5'7", people shoot over him, couple that with a lax demeanor and he's a really bad player. MDA gave the guy a million chances but he just wouldn't fall in line. This was undermining the coach and his authority. MDA would be insane and looked on as weak if he allowed Nate to act the way he has and still give him a bunch of minutes.

What I saw in the Clippers-Knicks game was a team that was serious and focused on playing basketball. There were no showing off moments, no little kid stunts. This is the result of Nate's benching. Everyone is playing basketball first and not worrying about showboating. Not to say that Nate did anything on purpose to harm the team, but what does it say to the other 4 guys on the floor when guy #5 blocks a shot and forgets that the play is still going on to gloat at the crowd? Nate always played to the crowd first, to prove something to himself (maybe because of his height).

Papabear Says

I have but one thing to say. Bring Patrick Ewing back as head coach next season!!!

PresIke wrote:

Marv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nate was resigned by the Knicks after MDA had coached him the previous season. Do you think Walsh would resign a guy that MDA views as having such poor character he that he would banish him from the team? I think the reality is that MDA cannot coach guys who rock the boat in any way. I also think he struggles to communicate with that type of player and if allowed just banishes them until they are traded or waived. This is a major fault and puts Walsh in a very bad position. I think Walsh needs to either fire him or make him play Nate. There should be a balance of power between the coach and gm. I think Gallo is a Knick because of the coach. I think Nate and Dlee were resigned with the coaches blessing. Walsh needs to find out if MDA can coach anyone other than an all star level player with tremendous character.

they probably gave nate one more chance, having little to lose with a one-year deal. he failed early on this one.

i'm honestly surprised and disappointed at several of the comments here i'm reading so far, other than the two "good riddance" comments (not surprised) i said to myself someone would write as soon as i read that nate wanted to be traded.

look, i don't really get what is so shocking to folks.

i find it somewhat ironic that many fans here have been screaming for accountability, but when someone like nate who has gotten oodles of chances to show he has matured -- clearly one of the major reasons the knicks re-signed him, as well as as an asset -- and still has not show significant improvement, now mda and walsh are being unfair, and this is marbury part duex?

can i just say...

WOW.

and maybe we should rename this the nypost knicks fan forum.

I'm really disappointed in us as fans if we can't see that nate had to know that he has had multiple chances, was on a short leash, and then begged to come back to prove himself...but still has not...

what were folks expecting?

i am a huge proponent of giving players chances on a team, which mda clearly did with nate, and used a lot of well supported ideas about how to get the most out of someone...like positive re-enforcement...

meanwhile we're playing much better, 5-3 since an atrocious start, and we can only look at what we're on "track" to have as a record in basically a throw away year, and where we are looking no where near like the team that started 1-9.

are things perfect or good?

not saying that, but i do not see as much nuance as i would expect from folks here.

Wow is right. Where is the basis for this arrogance? I thought this was a sports forum. Please explain the nuances that I am missing.

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:I wonder sometimes about the thinking of many Knick fans. We get a coach that has a great resume with wins, success getting players to excel above expectations ie Nash, Diaw & Bell, he did nothing bit win with a team that was never the best talent in the West and in a dispute with a player about playing winning ball many fans side with Nate? What the hell has he ever done to deserve the benefit of the doubt? This is Coach number THREE that has had the same issues with him! Guys keep bringing up MDA's coaching style and other nonsense as if that has anything to do with Nate acting like a professional.

It's been 8 GAMES! That's not a long time. Now a coach can't discipline a player using PT as the rod? When was there a specific limit on the number of games a player can be in the doghouse? This MDA bashing is BS! I'm tired of whinnig Knick fans they don't deserve DW or MDA! Give them some other clowns that know nothing about winning! The kid was benched cuz he doesn't understand what kind of mentality it takes to be a winner! Case closed! MDA tried, Zeke tried and LB tried. ENOUGH!!!

Papabear Says

Thats not what Mike D is saying. He says he is playing the guys that give him the best chance to win. He is lying. " You Lie "

OH PLEASE! MDA is saying we want to win and Nate's approach to the game and lack of D aren't condusive to winning. We know he can score but there's more to winning than that and MDA as well as Zeke n LB have tried to get that thru to Nate but he won't listen. There's got to come a point where Nate and all the players show some accountability for what do. This is about Nate not MDA.

TMS wrote:

PresIke wrote:

Marv wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nate was resigned by the Knicks after MDA had coached him the previous season. Do you think Walsh would resign a guy that MDA views as having such poor character he that he would banish him from the team? I think the reality is that MDA cannot coach guys who rock the boat in any way. I also think he struggles to communicate with that type of player and if allowed just banishes them until they are traded or waived. This is a major fault and puts Walsh in a very bad position. I think Walsh needs to either fire him or make him play Nate. There should be a balance of power between the coach and gm. I think Gallo is a Knick because of the coach. I think Nate and Dlee were resigned with the coaches blessing. Walsh needs to find out if MDA can coach anyone other than an all star level player with tremendous character.

they probably gave nate one more chance, having little to lose with a one-year deal. he failed early on this one.

i'm honestly surprised and disappointed at several of the comments here i'm reading so far, other than the two "good riddance" comments (not surprised) i said to myself someone would write as soon as i read that nate wanted to be traded.

look, i don't really get what is so shocking to folks.

i find it somewhat ironic that many fans here have been screaming for accountability, but when someone like nate who has gotten oodles of chances to show he has matured -- clearly one of the major reasons the knicks re-signed him, as well as as an asset -- and still has not show significant improvement, now mda and walsh are being unfair, and this is marbury part duex?

can i just say...

WOW.

and maybe we should rename this the nypost knicks fan forum.

I'm really disappointed in us as fans if we can't see that nate had to know that he has had multiple chances, was on a short leash, and then begged to come back to prove himself...but still has not...

what were folks expecting?

i am a huge proponent of giving players chances on a team, which mda clearly did with nate, and used a lot of well supported ideas about how to get the most out of someone...like positive re-enforcement...

meanwhile we're playing much better, 5-3 since an atrocious start, and we can only look at what we're on "track" to have as a record in basically a throw away year, and where we are looking no where near like the team that started 1-9.

are things perfect or good?

not saying that, but i do not see as much nuance as i would expect from folks here.

Pres, the point i'm making is we should not have let this situation get to this point to begin with... Nate should have been traded last year... if MDA didn't want Nate on this team we shouldn't have even re-signed him to begin with... if the plan was to get some value out of him in a trade then benching him was the wrong way to go... any way u wanna look at it, all this could have been easily avoided... IMO MDA acting out & making an example of Nate is not really serving the best interests of our franchise... i've been the most vocal person on these forums about Nate's idiotic behavior, but a 1-2 game benching would have been enough to get the point across... benching him for 8 games has pretty much made him out to be a Pariah & now even if teams were even remotely interested in Nate before, why would they bother trading for him now? they could just wait til Nate is waived & sign him for a veteran's minimum just like what happened to A.I. in Memphis.

guys, just cuz some people aren't happy w/the way MDA handled this situation doesn't mean we're not allowed to voice our opinions & doesn't make us MDA or Donnie Walsh haters... i swear any slight hint of negativity that's uttered on these forums gets you labelled as a hater... it gets old.

TMS, you know we cool, which is probably why i was a bit taken aback by your point.

respect...

i think you make a valid point that perhaps we should have moved nate earlier, but i can also see why he was brought back in for 1 more shot.

he wanted to be back on this team, and the market for him was sour, even with his talents.

that is perhaps what is so infuriating to mda, as is the fact that he stepped up to support nate a lot early last year. i know as someone who has been a teacher and manager that when you make a lot of effort to support someone's strengths, which usually works, to see it fail is disappointing and something any human might feel as frustrating, given the abilities of someone like nate, and that he is a cool person. it's like he's a early adolescent, who is stuck in that period, but one who you can see is not necessarily an "evil" person.

it may be that mda is making an example out of nate, but i also suspect it perhaps more about mda having enough, and seeing that other guys who are more mature and ready to contribute are there on the roster.

hill is not ready for the nba game just yet (or maybe never...i am keeping my hopes up...like i did for nate...but at least he doesn't do the same stuff on the sidelines), but douglas, curry (surprising as that may sound) and bender are.

maybe mda is making an example of nate to show the young players what they need to do to get burn.

talent alone is not enough. i need to see more.

as a teacher i can tell you ALL OF THE ACADEMIC PEER REVIEWED LITERATURE, which is the basis for teaching all young people...meaning it has proven to be successful (even for so-called "bad" young people in "bad" schools) is that holding HIGH EXPECTATIONS is imperative for bringing people up.

MDA, to me, has used this as a way to bring up guys. he tried it with nate, but he did not respond.

at some point you have to have accountability, and as a coach your job, and your reputation, is based around winning...even more than the players. players don't carry around their records like coaches do.

NATE HAS DONE THIS TO HIMSELF this year.

His value to us or trade value.

I just don't see so clearly how this is mostly mda's fault when he was highly supportive of Nate early on, but the guy has just not responded, and what surprises me most is how he is the kind of guy that infuriates fans who are totally opposite of me (nix, earl, etc.) in terms of looking for chances at growth, and having far less patience with questionable behavior. with nate, enough is enough, and at this point i just don't see how it's mda's fault.

larry hughes was out of the rotation early on because of poor performance and he worked his way back, against what i even expected of him afterward.

but larry also has a good rep.

with nate, i think he may be better off on a different team.

if he blows up, i don't wanna hear any stuff about how we blew it. sometimes, as with any job, some do better under different circumstances.

again, this is not about me defending Nate Robinson's idiotic behavior... for me it's all about the way this situation was handled, which i believe didn't serve our best possible interests in the big picture... we can't afford to just let talent like Nate go for nothing... he's a dynamic player & IMO could have been a useful piece in a possible trade, but now the chances of that happening aren't looking good.

Rumors, especially in the age of blogs, are quickly generated by third hand accounts or a random opinion that turns into a brush fire. Beat writers have been known generate rumors just to make their headlines and articles more appealing. They cite unknown sources for a reason. The juvenile assumption that Donnie Walsh did not pull the trigger on any rumored deal is arbitrary and not based on any facts. There is not a shread of evidence that Donnie Walsh turned down ANY deal for Nate Robinson, unless Donnie Walsh admitted to such, which he did not... or someone has documentation of a NBA GM conversation.

Random speculation on what Walsh should have done with Nate last season, based on rumors, is counterfeit.

misterearl wrote:PresIke - I hear you.

Rumors, especially in the age of blogs, are quickly generated by third hand accounts or a random opinion that turns into a brush fire. Beat writers have been known generate rumors just to make their headlines and articles more appealing. They cite unknown sources for a reason. The juvenile assumption that Donnie Walsh did not pull the trigger on any rumored deal is arbitrary and not based on any facts. There is not a shread of evidence that Donnie Walsh turned down ANY deal for Nate Robinson, unless Donnie Walsh admitted to such, which he did not... or someone has documentation of a NBA GM conversation.

Random speculation on what Walsh should have done with Nate last season, based on rumors, is counterfeit.

u have zero credibility on this Nate issue, you've completely fl ip flopped ur stance on him from last year during the debates we had over his idiotic behavior on the floor... it's pretty funny how all of a sudden now you think Nate has & never had any trade value... u weren't piping that tune last year when Nate was playing like a 5'9" "Superman" i believe u called him, & saying we'd be fools to let him walk for nothing... u were riding his jock pretty hard back then... funny how your tune completely changes when it becomes clear to you that i was right about Nate all along & it turns out his attention grabbing shenanigans were a legitimate thing to be concerned about afterall.

some very interesting points of view in this thread:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=29641&page=1

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2/12/2009 10:32 AM

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Make no mistake about it, 33, 15 and 9 is a Lebron James stat line

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misterearl
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2/12/2009 10:48 AM

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Super Heroes Come In Small Packages Too

PresIke - I just have this sinking feeling that Nate, still a work in progress, could make the Knicks regret letting him walk away.

Even Iron Man eventually changed his self-indulgent ways and got it right

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2/12/2009 11:26 AM

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Think of it this way

Don't be distracted by the primal screams or the unbridled passion of yoot

If you were watching an energizer-type player on another team who averaged 16, 4, 3 assists, who made his free throws, was a pest on defense (steals) and had a Rolls Royce engine, would you be dreaming of ways to acquire him?

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2/15/2009 11:28 AM

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Amazing

Anyone who has ever stepped on a basketball court knows how high the rim is. To position 6'10 Dwight Howard in front of that goal and then jump OVER him is not simply superhuman and flashy

but a testament to hard work (despite years of taking abuse) and determination

Those physical skills are not bestowed at birth, they are earned.

Even though Nate danced it was not simply for entertainment purposes that drew attention to himself, it was a brief celebration that allowed him to share his joy with the audience. It was not the overdone, just crazy Nate but a slightly more mature Nate that we watched last night and the week prior.

A Nate with more responsibility.

No matter how you slice it 30 polnts, 13 assists, 8 rebounds and 6 steals is no joke.

How can anyone be officially done with Nate when the best is yet to come?

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2/15/2009 2:47 PM

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Which Way Is Up?

djsunyc - Nate could be a perfect parable to describe the chasm between the Knicks fanbase that has patience for young players to develop over 3-4 years, and those who want more instant results.

The "sideshow clown" known as Nate has produced steadily improving stats each year he has been in the league.

Who are we to put an arbitrary ceiling on his maturation and development as a professional basketball player?

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3/12/2009 11:10 AM

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Nate for MVP

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3/12/2009 12:42 PM

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Something New

Forget Kobe and Dwayne. NYK #4 jersey sales will soar when the Knicks make the Playoffs

Nate for League MVP and Slam Dunk Title in the same season.

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3/13/2009 10:30 PM

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On an off (5-15) night

Nate: 25 pts 7 assists 6 rbs

Superstar