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Donnie - stop messing with the fanbase and FA's in general
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JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  3:43 PM
BigSmooth - do we have size at any position? Size at 2 guard would have been nice. Instead we have a tweener 4/5.

What glut do we have at the 2/3?

Gallo can't guard a 2 or a 3. He'd better be a 4 if this is going to work.

And I'll make the point again... the 2010 plan is not rebuilding to me. Donnie's rebuilding in the sense that he's tearing down a crap house to try and bring in a model home with no foundation. Is it asking too much to get a young, smart GM in here like OKC has or Houston has? Someone that can aggressively and responsibly rebuild the team without putting all of our hopes in one dude?

Maybe if we had drafted better I'd feel differently.

I'll root like crazy for these guys, but I'm not optimistic about this year, and I'm not buying any tickets for a team that is a placeholder. Its like buying full price tickets for a replacement player game.
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Moonangie
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9/10/2009  3:48 PM
Actually, at $20 a seat, it's no biggie.

Once Lebron gets here (and he will) you'll have your foundation, your supporting cast, and your $100+ cheap seats.
martin
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9/10/2009  3:53 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

BigSmooth - do we have size at any position? Size at 2 guard would have been nice. Instead we have a tweener 4/5.

C - Darko, Curry, Hill
PF - Lee, Hill, Harrington, JJ
SF - Harrington, Gallo, Chandler, JJ
SG - Chandler, Hughes, Douglas, Nate
PG - Duhon, Douglas, Nate

Knicks have pretty good size at all positions except PG.
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JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  4:20 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

BigSmooth - do we have size at any position? Size at 2 guard would have been nice. Instead we have a tweener 4/5.

C - Darko, Curry, Hill
PF - Lee, Hill, Harrington, JJ
SF - Harrington, Gallo, Chandler, JJ
SG - Chandler, Hughes, Douglas, Nate
PG - Duhon, Douglas, Nate

Knicks have pretty good size at all positions except PG.

Martin, come on... give me the guys who are actually going to play. Where do we have matchup advantages? Does Hill give us one? No. Would Derozan? Yes.

Chandler is the only guy on the team who can use his size to defend well, and also to score.
Hughes I wouldn't want on the court, but he can use his size to defend.
Gallo can use his size to get shots on the perimeter.

Look at the Lakers and Orlando - they had big matchup advantages at several positions. That's what I'm talking about.

Derozan gives you that, so does Evans, Holiday... we had this conversation 100 times leading up to the draft.

I'm done debating with you boss. You want to tell me that Curry's 5 min per year gives us size then good luck with this team.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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9/10/2009  4:27 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by joec32033:

JW....couple of things. I liked Bayless too but your roster still has both Zbo and Curry on it. That is like $30 mil right there and neither expire until 2011. I don't know your bench, but it seems you are banking on the 2011 FA class? Where fewer top tier FA are available?

Again, the consensus picks at the time we drafted Gallo were Bayless, Gordon and Randolph. If you don't think Gordon or Randolph would have been better picks, or Lopez or Thompson, or McGee for that matter, then you're pure homer.

I'm taking it easy on Donnie by showing a scenario starting with Bayless.

Don't critique this list as if its my ideal roster folks.

I think he's done a crap job. Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.

I don't like the LeBron slurping. We're like the dorky kid sending love notes to the cool chick in school for years, thinking that she'll come around at some point. My opinion is that we'll just end up with a restraining order.

Donnie was handed a 20-win roster full of bloated contracts. You don't turn that into gold in 2 years.

I've asked you about 5 times now to provide an alternate to Donnie's plan and you haven't really done so, and yet you keep saying that Donnie has done a crap job. Provide an alternate solution that is reasonable to what Donnie could have done, otherwise, really, you are just whining.

The only LeBron slurping that I have seen has been done by the media and by you, who keeps repeating LeBron without any regard to cap flexibility or any other free agents in 2010 or 2011.

Martin, you have to be kidding me. I've put out at least a couple of scenarios where things could have gone differently without taking any leaps whatsoever.

What FA's am I leaving out for 2010?

We give Joe Johnson a max deal, then its out of desperation. That would be a dumb move. You watch that guy, and he holds the ball for 15 seconds of every possession.

Manu's not leaving, Dirk's not leaving. Wade will go to Chicago if he leaves. Bosh is no good.

You want Amare? Added to what? He has said he doesn't want to play center. That's what he'd be here.

If you look back at my posts from before the drafts, I was looking for Bayless/Randolph and Derozan/Holiday. I just think those guys will prove out to be much better prospects than what we ended up with. If Isiah had picked Gallo over Bayless, Randolph, McGee, Gordon, and Lopez, people would be losing it.

I think there are 2011 options out there that we could shoot for as far as FA's and we'd have more leverage with Curry and Jeffries gone.

There also will be franchises in huge financial trouble that we can leverage for a favorable trade. Detroit for instance.

Let's hear the masterful moves that Donnie has made Martin. Where are they? What's the best thing you can say about him? That he traded two 20+ point scorers for a bag of balls? Congrats. Both of them were traded again after struggling with the Clips and GS, so clearly that wasn't as impossible as we thought.

Let me re-post what I have posted before... it's the only lineup that you have suggested:

JW, These are your statements:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

I get it Donnie. The Knicks aren't even attempting to compete this year.

He's had opportunities to upgrade the roster.

Maximize on the league's desperation for 2010 cap space and grab talent and 2011 cap space instead.

And after I have asked you to flesh out a plan, you have come up with this 2009-2010 lineup:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

A John Wallace GM'ed 2009 roster could have looked like

PG: Bayless (Randolph is just to easy to beat Donnie up on)
SG: The Mayor (assume Craw was traded like GS did to ATL)
SF: James Johnson
PF: ZBo,
C: Darko, Jeffries

Bench: Beaubois, Mardy Collins, Balkman

The lineup for 2009-2010 will most likely be this:

PG: Duhon
SG: The Mayor
SF: Harrington
PF: Lee
C: Darko

PG: Duhon > Bayless
SG: Chandler
SF: Harrington >>>>>> James
PF: Lee same as Zbo but without the headaches
C: Darko

How did your plan make it such that it's competing any more than what we currently have? How does you plan maximize free agents by taking on 2010 salary and waiting until 2011?

Mostly all you are suggesting is what Isiah wanted to do: Add Zbo to the roster.

For what I can tell by your post, you are suggesting that we should have kept Zbo and drafted Bayless instead of Gallo. And you can't draft Beaubois with the Laker pick cause he was already gone.

Saying that Bayless, Derozen is a better draft than Gallo, Hill carries about as much weight as me claiming that Gallo and Hill have been the best 2 players drafted over the past 2 years and are lights ahead of Bayless, Derozen.

Knicks will not be able to acquire a 2010 max free agent but we should wait until 2011 for a max free agent? What suddenly changes about 2011? What is so magical about 2011 that we should wait an extra year? I think LeBron just winked towards MSG wearing a god-awful blue sweatshirt today.

What pieces in 2008 was Donnie supposed to use to significantly upgrade his roster and gleam a better team then he has constructed today?
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fishmike
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9/10/2009  4:27 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by fishmike:

can we just agree to add Sessions to the list of Brigg's player that have set us back a decade by not signing?
Michael Redd
Rodney White
Abdur Rahim
Amare Stoudemire (hey, gotta be fair)
Andew Bynum
Marcus Williams
Anthony Randolph
Ramon Sessions

... and the band played on

also...

kostos koufos
bj mullens
thabeet
dujaun blair

i feel like i've left some others out...

Let some of these guys play. Dejuan Blair is better than Hill--I dont even have to think hard about it.
I would have to agree, in college... but there have been like 2 6'6 PFs who have made it in the NBA, Barlkey and our old buddy Clarence Weatherspoon. Maybe you can add Malik Rose to that list, he had a nice run. Brian Cardinal?

Jordan Hill is everything Briggs likes in players. As long ( 7'2 wingspan) as BJ Muellens, although Hill was faster in the 3/4 sprint. He's strong benching as much as BJ as well and only 7 shy of Blair. He's got "springs in his legs" as a 35 max vert is fantastic for a bigman (3 inches more than BJ). He's only played org ball for a few years but progressed to an 18ppg 12rpg 2 blocks and 55% player by his junior year.

In fact... if your looking from the Brigg's school of drafting Hill is EASILY the best player available.

Except of course for one huge reason...

The Knicks picked him.

I don't dislike Jordan Hill --he just wasnt my best player available--Demar Derozan was. I am not in the Jordan Hill scks club or anything but I am also not in the camp that he is some kind of 20-10 player and he is NOT the next Amare Stoudemire. I will be rooting for him hard to succeed and hopefully beat my expectation level.
I think Terrence Williams is better than Derozan on both sides of the ball and would have take TW anyway. NBA elite defender right out of the box. Derozan is a project

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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9/10/2009  6:32 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by martin:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

BigSmooth - do we have size at any position? Size at 2 guard would have been nice. Instead we have a tweener 4/5.

C - Darko, Curry, Hill
PF - Lee, Hill, Harrington, JJ
SF - Harrington, Gallo, Chandler, JJ
SG - Chandler, Hughes, Douglas, Nate
PG - Duhon, Douglas, Nate

Knicks have pretty good size at all positions except PG.

Martin, come on... give me the guys who are actually going to play. Where do we have matchup advantages? Does Hill give us one? No. Would Derozan? Yes.

Chandler is the only guy on the team who can use his size to defend well, and also to score.
Hughes I wouldn't want on the court, but he can use his size to defend.
Gallo can use his size to get shots on the perimeter.

Look at the Lakers and Orlando - they had big matchup advantages at several positions. That's what I'm talking about.

Derozan gives you that, so does Evans, Holiday... we had this conversation 100 times leading up to the draft.

I'm done debating with you boss. You want to tell me that Curry's 5 min per year gives us size then good luck with this team.

You are done debating with me? Let's be honest, we really aren't debating. You are flinging stuff out there and I am swatting it back pretty quick.

In the above you fling that the Knicks really dont have size and I just pointed out the Knicks' potential lineup.

PG - 6'3"
SG - 6'8"
SF - 6'9"
PF - 6'9"
C - 7'1"

I didn't emphasize Hill or Curry or whomever. And the Knicks finally do have depth too.

Let's get real: size advantage can be a good thing but talent wins in this league, so who really cares. Talent like LBJ, who becomes available in 2010.

PS. you copping out of my other reply... again?
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BigSm00th
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9/10/2009  6:38 PM
how many times can a poster get pwned in his own topic?
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JohnWallace44
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9/10/2009  10:22 PM
You guys have gone off the deep end. How can I even debate this stuff?

Who's the 6'3" magical point guard you're referencing? Really you're owning me? You want to see owned? Go watch the Summer League tapes. Go watch the 2008 draft. That's owned. Donnie is getting schooled left right and center by younger, more alert GM's. Morey and Presti are ten times the GM that he is. Through this whole thread you haven't mentioned a damned thing that Donnie's done that has been above average.

Regarding the positions, last year we were at a clear disadvantage at every position except the one Chandler was playing, whether it was SF, or SG.

Chandler can play either position, but we don't really have someone for the other. If you slot Wilson at the 3, who's the 2? If you put him at the 2, who's the 3?

Nobody that can play the position on both ends.

That's why we should have taken Derozan. He's a project you say? Apparently we have all the time in the world.

Honestly, bring something to your posts. Have you watched the games? No, you didn't see Hill get his butt kicked all over the Summer League? No, you didn't notice that Gallo can't make it back on defense for the short time he was healthy enough to play?

Why don't you post some made up heights and verticals. Whatever it takes to prove your point.

Stop pretending that there's some alternate plan where we get Manu or something like that when LeBron resigns with the Cavs. LeBron is the plan, unfortunately a plan we messed up by not finding a way to ditch Jeffries at the deadline.

And how do you argue that Donnie drafted anything but terribly? Here's the friggin' 2008 draft order;

6: Danilo
7: Gordon
8: Alexander
9: Augustin
10:Lopez
11:Bayless
12:Thompson
12:Rush
14:Randolph
15:RLopez
16:Speights
17:Hibbert
18:McGee
19:Hickson
20:Ajinca
21:Anderson
22:Lee
23:Koufos

You would do better throwing darts than to go with Donnie.

Why do I have a feeling Derozan, Jennings, Clark, Johnson and Holiday will end up making us look silly again?

Bayless would have been the easy choice in 2008. We didn't make that. People on this board wanted Randolph. We had to go with Mike's old buddy's son instead like its a friggin' YMCA league.

If we had Randolph, or if we had our PG situation settled, then our situation is looking a whole lot better today.

As for moving forward, with the roster we have, there's not much we can do at this point in the Summer. If there were plenty of time left I wouldn't be bitching about the job DW has done. That's the whole point, get it? You with me? He already effed up.

I would pick up the phone and offer the following offers;

Houston - this trade would cut Curry's 2010 cap $ by one-third and give us a champion level role player in Battier for 2010.
Curry + Mobley + Duhon
TMac + Battier

Golden State - Jackson fills the gap we have in the wings opposite Chandler, 2 way player
Jeffries for S Jackson (3 years remaining)

Denver - Clears a ton of $ for Denver, puts us in the thick of the East race
Harrington + Mobley + Hughes + Chandler
Carmelo + KMart

As far as 2011, if it comes to that, here are some of the players that will be available:
Parker
Duncan
Gasol
Butler
DavidWest
JoshHoward
JRich
RJefferson
TPrince
Durant-RFA

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
kam77
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9/10/2009  11:14 PM
Man i hope Gallo blows up this year. I think its way too soon to say anything definitive like "you could do better throwing darts" about the 2008 draft.

Gallo has more potential than anyone we've drafted in the last 20 years.

[Edited by - kam77 on 09-10-2009 11:15 PM]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
arkrud
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9/10/2009  11:21 PM
Posted by kam77:

Man i hope Gallo blows up this year. I think its way too soon to say anything definitive like "you could do better throwing darts" about the 2008 draft.

Gallo has more potential than anyone we've drafted in the last 20 years.

[Edited by - kam77 on 09-10-2009 11:15 PM]

blows up.. like balllooon
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nixluva
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9/10/2009  11:59 PM
Posted by kam77:

Man i hope Gallo blows up this year. I think its way too soon to say anything definitive like "you could do better throwing darts" about the 2008 draft.

Gallo has more potential than anyone we've drafted in the last 20 years.

[Edited by - kam77 on 09-10-2009 11:15 PM]

Gallo vs. the rest of the draft class has to be given an incomplete at this point. Gallo hasn't had a chance to really show what he can do. Besides what does it matter if one guy puts up numbers in his 1st couple of years if by year 3 another guy actually develops into a career stud? Some guys get off to a great start but maxout and never get any better. Gallo has the potential to develop into a Star IMO. Why, cuz he has a rare combination of skills and intangibles. To me guys like Gordon, Lopez and Bayless have a ceiling on what they can be due to the lack of intangibles. What I see in Gallo is not only a willingness to be a team player, but the IQ to understand how to play winning ball. I see leadership to go along with great skill. The only thing that has dampened that was his back injury. This guy get's healthy and I see no reason why he shouldn't be a bigtime player for us. He was a leader and go to guy already in his young career in Europe. As he develops and adjusts to the NBA I expect him to do the same on this level. Don't sleep on the Rooster!!!
30andOverClub
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9/11/2009  12:10 AM
JW, you want size and then tell us the Knicks should have drafted an undersized, no wingspan, 6'3" two guard in Bayless over a 6'10" Gallinari? As far as I can ascertain, most of your argument with Donnie comes from the fact that he hasn't drafted the guys you wanted him to. But you're not even consistent with your own arguments. I imagine you'll say that Bayless is taller than your average PG, but he's shown nothing that would indicate he'll ever be a PG.

Also, those proposed trades would also have absolutely no shot of going through. Carmelo for what amounts to Chandler? Dumping Curry for expirings when he hasn't played in well over a year? Donnie would do the Knicks more harm than good by suggesting such trades as the other GMs would most likely be extremely insulted.

I won't even get into the rest. You throw way too much out there and haven't even commented on my post a few days ago about what 2011 free agents we're supposed to target that would make foregoing the 2010 free agent class a solid strategy.
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9/11/2009  10:19 AM
I thought jwall said he wasnt gonna debate this any more?? And that was back on page 3 or 4!!
JohnWallace44
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9/11/2009  11:38 AM
Posted by 30andOverClub:

JW, you want size and then tell us the Knicks should have drafted an undersized, no wingspan, 6'3" two guard in Bayless over a 6'10" Gallinari? As far as I can ascertain, most of your argument with Donnie comes from the fact that he hasn't drafted the guys you wanted him to. But you're not even consistent with your own arguments. I imagine you'll say that Bayless is taller than your average PG, but he's shown nothing that would indicate he'll ever be a PG.

Also, those proposed trades would also have absolutely no shot of going through. Carmelo for what amounts to Chandler? Dumping Curry for expirings when he hasn't played in well over a year? Donnie would do the Knicks more harm than good by suggesting such trades as the other GMs would most likely be extremely insulted.

I won't even get into the rest. You throw way too much out there and haven't even commented on my post a few days ago about what 2011 free agents we're supposed to target that would make foregoing the 2010 free agent class a solid strategy.

What do you want me to say folks? Our GM has done a bad job to me. I've laid it out. Nobody can point to something Donnie's done that has been a wild success?

Look, size = mismatches. Say it with me now... Derozan is a huge SG. Bayless is a big PG. Holiday is a big PG, he was the other pick I was pining for this Summer.

Who has been in the finals the last two years? Look at their rosters. They have extreme size and mobility mismatches at several positions. Odom playing small forward, KG, Rondo, Rashard Lewis, Turkoglu... you want a championship, that's what we need to be building.

I put out a list of the 2011 guys that will be out there. Also, there's going to be huge stress put on a lot of franchises because of the economy. You think we won't be able to steal players from teams because of the economy using our expirings? I think there are owners that will take those deals.

Bottom line, the 2008 draft was a disaster and there were several guys we could have picked over Gallo that would have been much better. Dude had a bad back and we knew it. Come on folks! That doesn't bother anyone? The 2009 draft bothers me because Hill was immediately getting whipped in the Summer League by guys like McGee. McGee is going to be this guy's peer for the next decade. Hill had better get to work.

The 2010 plan just seems un-New York to me. We're on our knees begging this guy to give us a chance and sacrificing anything else in the mean time. The drafts have been bad from what we've seen so far, that's all I can go on, and so if LeBron doesn't come, what are we left with?

Why can't we build step by step? Get a chip every year through the draft. Sign guys to smart deals. The things a normal GM would try to do...

I support this team more than anyone, but basically throwing our hands up this year and last year is something I never thought that I'd see.

That Mobley contract is a big deal for teams who are in bad financial positions. We should leverage that contract as much as we can.

I don't know folks, I just hope that all of this is worth it at some point, and that we've got a contending team in 2011. I wouldn't have gone about it this way and the point of this post is just that the LeBron flirting and the ongoing Lee, Nate, Hill, Kidd, Sessions drama is an embarrassment. And, all this happens as the potential 2010 targets resign with their teams to get as much money as they can. I would think that LeBron, Wade and Bosh would be the only major FA's still on the market by next Summer as they try to use their own leverage. I hope we get LeBron, it just seems like completely suspending our normal team operations from a few games into last year until next Summer is a big price to pay. The economy is another obstacle now with the shrinking cap, and I would think we could use that to our advantage in an alternate plan.
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Bippity10
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9/11/2009  12:19 PM
Lakers likely starting line-up this year
PG 6-1
SG 6-6
SF 6-7
PF 7-0
C 7-0

Celtics
PG 6-1
SG 6-5
SF 6-7
PF 6-11
C 6-10

Knicks
PG 6-1
SG 6-8
SF 6-10
PF 6-9
C 6-11

Seems like we aren't small and actually got bigger in the draft so I'm not sure I understand the argument. And this is coming from a guy that wanted Derozan. I understand the arguments against Walsh but I do not accept arguments based on hypotheticals. This is probably why so many disagree with you JWall. It's one thing to say that you don't like the picks. It's another thing to say that Bayless was a better pick or that Derozan is a better pick when none of them have accomplished anything.

Again, I wanted Derozan. But how can I say he's a better pick then Hill when neither have played yet. I can guess, but it's still a guess. It's a prediction, but predictions are not adequate GM analysis. Sometimes you have to see how things play out.
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martin
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9/11/2009  12:34 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

You guys have gone off the deep end. How can I even debate this stuff?

Who's the 6'3" magical point guard you're referencing?

I did miss on Duhon's height, he is 6'1" not 6'3" as I had thought, but that is 1 of the 5 positions (and is not that undersized but clearly not a height advantage). I have suggested that Chandler will start at the 2, Harrington at the 3, Lee at the 4 and Darko at the 5. That's a size advantage at 2 spots. Or you could go with Duhon, Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Darko.
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Through this whole thread you haven't mentioned a damned thing that Donnie's done that has been above average.

Here is the thing, I have never claimed that Donnie has done anything above average, mostly because he CAN'T. I have stressed that Donnie was given a 20-win team with bloated contracts (Marbury, Crawford, Big Game, Curry, JJ, Balkman, Collins, Rose, Q) that has handcuffed the rebuilding process. YOU were the one claiming that Donnie should have been able to make the team more competitive than it has been... for which I have asked for examples and have only gotten the suggestion that Bayless should have been drafted over Gallo and that Hill/Douglas were not your picks either.
Posted by JohnWallace44:

And how do you argue that Donnie drafted anything but terribly? ...

You would do better throwing darts than to go with Donnie.

Why do I have a feeling Derozan, Jennings, Clark, Johnson and Holiday will end up making us look silly again?

Bayless would have been the easy choice in 2008. We didn't make that. People on this board wanted Randolph. We had to go with Mike's old buddy's son instead like its a friggin' YMCA league.

If we had Randolph, or if we had our PG situation settled, then our situation is looking a whole lot better today.

How can you grade draft from which the players have not played much or not played much at all? I can understand disagreeing with the picks, but declaring them WRONG? Is Derozen the next Paul Pierce or the next Gerald Green? Let's also be clear: Gallo (at ~70% health) has better stats that Bayless, who for all of his potential didn't get much burn behind the very daunting Steve Blake and a guy who was used in a trade to move up 8 positions in the SECOND round (he was also so good that POR threw in some cash for good measure).


Posted by JohnWallace44:

I would pick up the phone and offer the following offers;

Houston - this trade would cut Curry's 2010 cap $ by one-third and give us a champion level role player in Battier for 2010.
Curry + Mobley + Duhon
TMac + Battier

Golden State - Jackson fills the gap we have in the wings opposite Chandler, 2 way player
Jeffries for S Jackson (3 years remaining)

Denver - Clears a ton of $ for Denver, puts us in the thick of the East race
Harrington + Mobley + Hughes + Chandler
Carmelo + KMart
Houston Rockets, in their infinite wisdom is going to trade perhaps the best defensive player in the league for Curry? Who plays the same exact position as Yao? And hasn't played in a year? I know Yao is hurt this year but... ? Why do they want Duhon when they got the VERY undersized but VERY good PG tandem of Brooks, Lowry.

Denver is giving away Carmelo for cap space? I know they want to hover near the cap line but remember that they just took the much longer contract of Billups over AI (i think it was about a talent upgrade/better fit too), re-signed the Birdman too.

Dude, the Denver trade is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have heard in a looooonnnnnggg time. I mean completely thoughtless. It has to be a mistake, right? Just tell me it was a mistake.
Posted by JohnWallace44:

As far as 2011, if it comes to that, here are some of the players that will be available:
Parker
Duncan
Gasol
Butler
DavidWest
JoshHoward
JRich
RJefferson
TPrince
Durant-RFA

when you mention that we shouldn't hold out for any 2010 free agents because non of them are going anywhere, what makes your 2011 wish list any better? Because by your own standard, they aren't going anywhere either.
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newyorknewyork
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9/11/2009  12:58 PM
Sessions’ side kept hoping the Knicks would reconsider, especially because of the opportunity that playing in New York — and in Mike D’Antoni’s system.

As long as MDA is here there will allways be PGs wanting to come to NY. So unless Sessions is a once in a decade type of PG its not that dissapointing. Then there is the fact that we drafted our own PG this yr in Tony Douglas who has a lot of talent himself and a shooter and defender.

Going back to the 2008 NBA draft. If you look at the needs of the team Gallinari at the time Gallinari was the best choice. SF was our weakest position talent wise with Richardson and a green Wilson Chandler. Outside shooting was one of our weakest areas as well as a critical area for MDA's system.

We had Eddie Curry, Zach Randolph and David Lee at the time so Brock Lopez and the center position was not a priority. Its one thing if Lopez was a sure thing but he wasn't that either. He wasn't even known for his defense coming out of the draft.

Bayless and Gordan are undersized shooting guards plain and simple. We had Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson who both were cappable of getting 30mins a game. What we needed was a pure pass first PG which Bayless and Gordan are not. Plus Baless hasn't shown that he is cappable of playing in the NBA let alone run a team as the PG. Gallo was hurt, what was Bayless excuse. A guy that people think we should have drafted with the 6th overall pick couldn't beat out Steve Blake for PT. If he was so good why did Portland sign Andre Miller this offseason.

The only other player comparable to our needs would have been Randolph. Gallinari beat out Randolph for the fact that he showed our front office that he has the maturity, leadership, work ethic skills etc... which were all needed and lacking while we were recovering from the Isiah Thomas, Marbury, Curry era. Randolph though he was a freak athletic with some skills was also said to be imature, he isn't said to be a leader either, gets down on himself and loses focus. Those intangible things were needed for this franchise more so then atheletic ability. Gallo had intangibles and great characteristics, to go along with talent. Randolph had freak atheletic ability to go along with talent. Going by the needs of the team Gallo was the better choice for the culture change the organization was looking to make.

The 2010 plan is not a waste of time, because at the end of the day the type of things and options that open up that a GM could do with 30mil in cap space flexibility make it worth it even if Lebron James didn't come.
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JohnWallace44
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9/11/2009  1:30 PM
Martin, the size issue is all about mismatches. Can Gallo defend anyone? Can Lee? Can Nate? Can Al Jr guard SF's?

The Lakers, Celtics and Magic had length the last two years that we need to be trying to catch up to. We passed on players that could have given us players like that. I hope I'm proven wrong. It just would have been nice to have a 6'3 PG and interchangeable 6'8" wings. If that worked out, then we're not so dependent on LeBron.

And, you're right, the 2011 FA's might not leave either, but the economic pressure on teams to unload contracts, including contracts like 'Melo's, is going to be huge even this year if their teams aren't competing.

I think we should be open to adding long term contracts that we could trade for if a big time player becomes available. We don't really have a long term answer at any position except Chandler's and he can play either wing.

I get that you guys think LeBron or bust is a good plan. I don't like what's gone on and I think the Knicks deserve to have the best GM in the land running things. Seems like for too long we've been running things with below average leadership to say the least.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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9/11/2009  2:16 PM
why would you mention that Lakers, Celtics, Magic have had length advantages when 2 posts up Bip showed you that the Lakers and Celtics really didn't or don't compared to potential lineups that the Knicks can throw out there?
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Donnie - stop messing with the fanbase and FA's in general

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