Posted by Nalod:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by Nalod:


NY,


But lets look at the real cause which we discussed in the Gates thread. I wrote that enslavement, and eventual inclusion into our culture did not allow for assimilation for the family to evolve. Black men were consistantly sold off while enslaved. The culture of family life did not exist prior to emancipation, but it was expected. This congruence does not make for an ecnomically sound environment going forward. With no formal educations and only agriculture labor background the typical black american struggled. Naturally I am being stereotypical as many did get educations, black colleges did exist and many went further and further. It is tough to say "White supremecy" on one hand and still look at the numerous programs that were instituted. Im not gonna say competition and racisim was not there, cuz it was, it still is. But I don't fully believe there is an out right conspiricy to rid the country of its black population. Our history is not fair. Our immigrents came over and had the structure of its family unit in place which allowed for faster assimilations and ecnomic advancement.

Have there been many instinces where the government was wrong? Of course, but was it doctrine or just departmental ignorance or deparmental criminally?

Strong family builds strong economic base to grow from. Inheritance, Real estate and other properties all can perpetuate in any race in this country. And when you don't have that power you are vulnerable.

The United States at its best, and worst!

I don't know if the government formed a conspiracy in order to rid themselves of black people. Its easy to draw that conclusion when you look at everything stacked up against the black communities. But you can't state it as a fact without coming off as crazy when speaking to whites.

But what I do feel strongly about is that there has been less overall effort and care towards black people. As whites didn't go from treating African Americans as slaves, and monkeys, and believe they are less then human to loving African Americans with a snap of the finger. I believe they have allowed drugs, and guns to infiltrate Black communities more because number 1; they wanted/needed the profit off of it. And number 2; they have less concern on how it effects the black community then if it was tearing up majority white communities. They may not hate blacks and think of us as slaves during that transitional period, but I do believe there was less care or concern towards blacks.

I do agree about the educational background. If there really was a genuine care for African Americans knowing the lack of educational background going in wouldn't there have been more of an effort to try and look to get blacks more caught up. That's the line of thinking one would have if race wasn't an issue and everyone just saw each other as human beings. I can agree with the family structure as well.

Now going by that view point. How the hell did we all of a sudden get smart and skilled enough to go under the government nose and import all these guns and drugs into our neighborhoods.

YOu are biting off a lot and While I can appreciate your view, its not that Im gonna disrespect it, just not on a knick website. I think we all took on more of this topic. Im gonna let this one go for now as its been real interesting but this is a good place t jump off.

Posted by Rookie:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by Rookie:

Posted by sebstar:

There is no aspect of American life in which racism does not currently operate to disadvantage blacks. Because black people live through this on a daily basis, many are far more aware. To the white world, it's mostly invisible, because the operations that aid white supremacy aren't necessarily things that white people see on an everyday basis in real life.

I'm still waiting for Sebstar to give us some examples of how he is disadvantaged by white people every day. I mean seriously, I woke up this morning and my first thought was 'damn, I forgot to buy coffee'. It wasn't 'Ok, so how am I going to disadvantage blacks today'. I'm half way through my day and I still haven't disadvantaged any blacks yet. I can't say that I'm just off to a slow start, really, the thought just hasn't crossed my mind. Maybe I'm just not as good at it as the rest of you white people. My day has been filled with things like 'how can I continue to do a good job and stay employed in a bad economy so I can continue to provide for my family. At my lunch break, I had enough time to grab a sandwich and eat at my desk. I did however let myself get disadvantaged by a black guy by letting him cut in front of me at the deli counter, so I guess my day as a white disadvantager has been a total failure so far...but it is still early.

This whole argument has ended right where it started, as I thought it would. The folks with extreme opinions continue to have and reinforce their extreme views while the folks with moderate opinions try and reinforce their moderate views. In the end, no one has budged off of their position one inch...and three pages from now that won't change. The only thing this has proven to me is that we are all different and that's probably a good thing.

I want to start out by saying Im only looking for your opinion on these issues, not to accuse or proclaim anything.

We live in a time period where everyone is equal right. According to you why are there so many more African Americans in prison then whites. Why is the percentage higher for a white student to graduate and go to college and graduate then the percentage of blacks. Why is the unemployment rate higher for blacks then whites. Why are blacks more likely to commit homicide. Why is the average income for whites substantially higher then there are for blacks.

Again Im only looking for your opinion on these issues.

Also I want to add that just because you may not view things in a racial way does not mean that nobody does. It does not mean that its not out there but only that you personally don't. Its not an extreme view to believe that there was/is a conspiracy hold African Americans back. During slavery they used to kill blacks that learned to read so that blacks would not add smarts to go along with the physical ability they were breeding, come together and start over taking plantations. Its not extreme to believe whites would try to do something like that on a lesser level. True or not its not extreme. It would actually be a logical step in a nation divided.

To answer the first part of your question, the answer IMHO is education and the family support system. Children need to be a parents first concern - PERIOD. Children need a solid foundation and it is the parents responsibility to provide it. I can definitely say that I've seen some pretty clueless parents of all races and I've also seen alot of very involved parents. For me, the answer was a simple one.

Because I came from a broken home and I was raised by one parent who was always at work since I was an infant, I made a commitment to myself when I got married - 1) I will never get divorced. 2) I will put my life and my needs on hold and make my kids the center of my life. Another promise I made to myself is this - Since I had no supervision as a child and too much free time on my hands I had too much time and opportunity to get in trouble. Because of this I wanted my kids lives to be more structured and I didn't want them to have too much free time. To this end, sports are a great way to build strength and character. The third priority was to teach my kids about nutrition and eating healthy.

So far, it is working out well

Posted by TMS:

K, so I've done alotta criticizing of cops I just wanted to share a positive experience for a change. So Im driving thru DC and stopped at a red light but a green arrow light turns on right in back of the red, so I go. Cop behind me immediately pulls me over and asks for my documents, which I provide while politely asking if I can reach into my glove compartment to get my proof of insurance. I calmly explain why I was confused with the lights and he takes my ID to run in his computer. Comes back a second later and lets me go on my way. So thank u Nalod, I owe u one. =p

Posted by martin:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

I agree that the family structure is huge. And the dedication that you seem to have put in is going to have an even bigger positive impact then you could probably imagine. Much props to you for making that commitment and dedicating yourself to it.

But this also would lead to a follow up question as to why do you feel that African Americans family structure is not as strong as it should be.

interesting article that may shed some light on many of the topics discussed:

http://nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/getting-ahead-in-america

Getting Ahead in America
RON HASKINS

America's familiar debate over income inequality conceals and confuses at least as much as it reveals. To hear most journalists and activists tell the story, our country is the scene of a rampant and long-running economic travesty, as the rich grow richer, the poor grow poorer, and the distance between them belies the promise of America even in times of prosperity. As President Barack Obama put it during his 2008 campaign: "While some have prospered beyond imagination in this global economy, middle-class Americans as well as those working hard to become middle class are seeing the American Dream slip further and further away."

Such arguments are generally marshaled in the cause of expanding social-welfare programs aimed at transferring wealth from the rich to the poor, thereby combating both poverty and inequality. Opponents of such programs have usually not engaged the inequality argument directly, instead contending against the growth of government or pointing to the failure of some welfare programs to achieve their stated aims.

But in so arguing, both sides too often miss the point. Those enraged by inequality tend to be careless with their statistics, often painting a distorted picture of American life. Their opponents have accepted these false premises, rejecting only the solutions the outraged wish to pursue. Both sides ignore the real threat to the American Dream.

That dream, after all, is not about economic equality, but about opportunity and upward mobility about getting ahead. And for those at the bottom in our society, the challenge of getting ahead is daunting and complicated. The rich are not the reason that the poor are poor, and the real reasons — which have to do not only with economics but also with culture, history, and especially individual behavior and personal choices — add up to an enormous problem that deserves to stand front and center in our politics. As we have learned over decades of trying, it is a problem that does not lend itself to easy policy solutions. But seeing more clearly just how the question of mobility does and does not relate to the equality debate may clarify both the potential and the limits of policy and politics in helping the poor get ahead.