Posted by sebstar:

To Knicksfan:

A nice trajectory of solid play in college???? Man, we're talking about a number 8 pick in the draft, not a second rounder.

I dont care what you call me, all you cats that want to back Hill right now are just as scared because I didnt see much in college, and I damn sure am not seeing anything right now that suggests we didnt draft a player that is going to have a hard time in the league.

I wont call him a bust just yet, but what exactly are you seeing that says he will be ANY good? He's just going to magically get better?

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-17-2009 9:13 PM]

Seb, I'm not calling you anything. And I am seeing the same thing you are and while I'd like to be excited about this players, I'm not. But at the same time, I'm not a fan of summer league as it usually distortions reality in terms of this players. I don't think this stage is the best one to evaluate our talent. That's all. That's why I call for patience right now.

I still believe the Knicks picked the BPA in Hill and I hope time proves me right. But obviously his struggles are hard to see. Still, its too early count him out already. He may be more potential than advertised, but he is still an intriguing prospect.

i think hill has stiff arms...

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Knicksfan:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Knicksfan:

This is beyond hilarious! Hahaha!

Some here should take Knicks vacations until the season starts.

And to think that some wanted rebuilding. Knicks fans can't handle rebuilding.

It would be nice to get an 8th pick that showed a tad more promise. He is a 3 year player at AZ--hes playing no where near the level he played there against the next level of competition. Dejuan Blair would give me more hope than both of these guys if we took him at 29.
This thing about system players doesnt make sense--how about some good players?
I don't know why they didnt take Derozan once Evans and Curry were gone--they said they had Jordan Hill ranked the third best player---is it the same scouts that had Channing Frye 1?

Its OK to rebuild but you have to draft well. Jordan Hill has been very disappointing--after scking for 10 years--you really think these performances from Hill are making people smile--OH yes just relax he just started playing basketball

You've been one of the few that has talked abou how Hill was the right pick and that he will be solid. Three summer league games and you change your mind? A little consistency would be welcomed.

It would be nice if he would play a little better.

I agree. I hope to see improvement in preseason. I don't trust summer league.

All I need is 3 Summer League Games... I make all my final decisions based on SL performances... If the guy can't get it done in SL, there's no sense even watching the rest of his career, cuz he's a sure bust in the making. GEEEEZ!

Does this mean the Knicks are no longer in contention for the Summer League Championship?

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by nixluva:

All I need is 3 Summer League Games... I make all my final decisions based on SL performances... If the guy can't get it done in SL, there's no sense even watching the rest of his career, cuz he's a sure bust in the making. GEEEEZ!

it's a bit laughable for guys to do a 180 on their opinions about this guy based off 3 SL games, i completely agree w/u on this... if u were high on this pick before SL nothing that's happened should have changed ur mind... everyone knew he was a work in progress & still needed some development on his game... there was 1 or 2 finished products in this draft that went in the top 10 & Griffin was 1 of them... every other prospect is a wait & see at this point... for all these draft gurus around here to be flip flopping their opinions with the wind speaks to just how much of a crap shoot the rest of the draft class really was this year, but that doesn't mean these guys are gonna be busts.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by McK1:

Neither will the people after Hill be great players.

this is truly laughable.

does making such a baseless statement like this make you feel better about taking hill?

How is what I said baseless? What guy did you want? I'm guessing Jennings lol.

All I know is no draft site has anyone after Hill being a star and nobody I've seen play in college after him looks like one either. Bottom line. He wont be either. What's wrong with what I said? Baseless statement? Baseless is your hate on everything Knicks-related recently, including Hill. I don't form my opinions off Summer League. If you do, more power to you.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-17-2009 10:57 PM]

DEmar Derozan
Branden Jennings
Austin Daye
Ty Hansboruogh
Earl Clark

All picked right after our man. They all look quite a bit better. And before you say Ty H scks--stop--he doesnt. I honestly do think we have a problem that we have to get specific type players. Lets be honest Mike D had Steve Nash Amare Stoudemire Shawn Marion Joe Johnson with good role players like Barbosa and then traded Johnson for Diaw a great deal of coaches wouldve won a lot of games---he had players that were brought in by a very very good GM in Colangelo. That is the mistake we keep making--we need a real LEADER in the front office proven and I don't mean a 67 year old guy who was on his way down. Mike D is not a proven talent guy--hes not a GM. He's a good coach but frankly I dont think he should have much input on the groceries and he has a ton.

I mean we want Tim Thomas back---Ive been thinking about that--is our big off season move by our 67 YO GM going to be Tim Thomas--while being juked over by Grant Hill and Jason Kidd? Maybe time to retire and rethink this whole gig--we have cap space next year --but I don't know if Mike D or anyone associated with the Knicks have proven to be able to do that job NOW. We need to thank Mr Walsh for the cap space after the season and send him home to Indiana and go get RC Buford to do free agency and everything else. Let Mike coach and let RC Buford pick the groceries and ticket the free agents.

Write this down. Save it. Whatever. None - NONE - of those players will ever be called a superstar. Maybe one makes an all-star game once in their career. Maybe. But they will never, ever be a superstar. Bottom line. Playing well in SL doesn't prove jack squat and certainly doesn't prove they will be stars.

Anyway, you really must be joking to think anyone could have done better with the absolute garbage Isiah Thomas left behind. You look at the roster right now and you say "wow, look at where we are" and the sad thing it's a hell of a lot better than where were 1 year ago today. That's just the truth. Is this a good team? No. Is that Donnie's fault? No. Nobody could have done better than Donnie with what was left behind. He cleared a lot of salary and got us under the cap, something we haven't been under in 14 years. It's not his fault your boy and former prodigy Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries are wasting $20 million in salary cap space in 2010. If they weren't, Lee and Nate would already be re-signed (not that I want that but ok). He's going about this the right way.

People sit here and call Gallinari a bust. Hold your horses. The only reason you can call him that is because he was injured. He has the talent. He has loads of it. But he's not a bust at all. Wait a while before you bring out the bust tag. Hell, people are already throwing out the bust tag on Hill. Then again, they labeled Gallo a bust the minute after he was drafted so there you go.

While it is frustrating, remember Donnie has nothing to do with the decade-long failure of the franchise. He's coming here to clean up the mess. I want to have a good team too but it's obvious we don't have good players. Our "best players" don't even have a contract offer from anyone in the country. The roster sucks. I don't think this roster will attract any free agents but the thought process in getting under the cap was the best way in going about rebuilding this team. This is what we all wanted(besides the Isiah starphuck fans), this is what we're getting. I'm not complaining. We may not sign anyone in 2010 but I'll tell you this - it will STILL be better than what we have seen all these years. We'll still have cap space and have our picks back again. Curry and Jeffries will be expiring. We wont be in a bad position at all.

As for my opinion on the game (so as to not be so off-topic):

Hill definitely looks raw, but he's taller, longer, and quicker than Lee. The form on this jump shot is better and his footwork in the post shows a lot of potential. He needs to continue to develop his explosion and build strength so that he can finish through contact. If he does both of those things (and I think he will), he'll be dunking a lot more of those layup attempts (that he missed most of). I figure he starts the season off slow, and has a great second half to the year as he fixes the problems listed above.

As for Douglas, how can you complain? If I'm just a casual observer and don't know that Evans is 4 years younger, I'd say Douglas is the better prospect by far. Much better handle, much better form on his jump shot (not falling of course, but he proved in college he can shoot), better commitment to defense (both gamble, Evans more so), better first step, and at least even in court vision. He bottled up Evans practically the entire game. Evans got away from him just once without a pick. And then he got most of his points with the likes of Blake Ahearn guarding him.

Evans just doesn't look like much of a half court PG. His first step is average and it takes him a while to build up speed. Once he does, he does damage. In the open floor, he could be great but playoff basketball is half-court basketball. Oh, and that wonderful Youtube video of him draining jump shot after jump shot? In game, he reverted right back to that terrible form, kicking his legs out. He needs to work MUCH more on that.

Posted by Markji:

I Was pro Gallinari at the 6th pick- he had shown that he had a lot of basketball skill and knew how to play, even at 19 yrs old. I don't get that with Hill who will be 22 yrs old in 10 days. He should have been able to develop more basketball skills in college. The NBA is a heck of a place to have to learn basic BB skills. The thing is I do believe Hill will develop. But he has a ways to go and that is what is so disappointing. As a #8 lottery pick, he isn't ready to contribute off the bench.

read more on the background of JHill.

he picked up basketball late in high school, like his junior year or something. 3 different head coaches in his 3 years at college and still got better each year.

Dude is still raw and still learning and still getting better.

Posted by 30andOverClub:

As for my opinion on the game (so as to not be so off-topic):

Hill definitely looks raw, but he's taller, longer, and quicker than Lee. The form on this jump shot is better and his footwork in the post shows a lot of potential. He needs to continue to develop his explosion and build strength so that he can finish through contact. If he does both of those things (and I think he will), he'll be dunking a lot more of those layup attempts (that he missed most of). I figure he starts the season off slow, and has a great second half to the year as he fixes the problems listed above.

As for Douglas, how can you complain? If I'm just a casual observer and don't know that Evans is 4 years younger, I'd say Douglas is the better prospect by far. Much better handle, much better form on his jump shot (not falling of course, but he proved in college he can shoot), better commitment to defense (both gamble, Evans more so), better first step, and at least even in court vision. He bottled up Evans practically the entire game. Evans got away from him just once without a pick. And then he got most of his points with the likes of Blake Ahearn guarding him.

Evans just doesn't look like much of a half court PG. His first step is average and it takes him a while to build up speed. Once he does, he does damage. In the open floor, he could be great but playoff basketball is half-court basketball. Oh, and that wonderful Youtube video of him draining jump shot after jump shot? In game, he reverted right back to that terrible form, kicking his legs out. He needs to work MUCH more on that.

Thats funny you are praising Hill and Douglas and dissing Evans--do you get paid by the Knicks?

Hill and Douglas probably need to start the year in the D league so they can fix their problems. That's exciting for Knick fans!

I think Hill can be a solid player but they better come up with the RIGHT plan to develop him. The wrong plan could be catastrophic. He needs to work on his strength and probably play 10- 20 games in the D League going 40 minutes a night to work on his skill sets. Sitting on an NBA bench or the team relying on him for rotational minutes before he is ready could be quite negative.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 07-18-2009 05:08 AM]

Posted by GKFv2:

Posted by sebstar:

You didnt say SHYT GKF. What exactly have you seen in Hill that suggests he ill be any good? You cant talk in riddles or talk about patience. I want something concrete!

How the hell do you know who will be good and who will be bad? You have the credentials of a scout now? You BRIGGS' brother? I'm going by game tape and scouting reports. He's not going to be a great player. I know this and hope a lot of other people do. Neither will the people after Hill be great players. He was the BPA at where we drafted, end of story. He is going to be solid. He's got the work ethic. He doesn't have his legs under him. Once he gets that and develops upper body strength he'll be more of a force. He is mechanical down there but he's got the moves. I don't look at the box scores and determine whether a player can play. I see what he can do on the court. He was very good on D out there today. He had 12 boards and blocked a shot. He hustles out there so it'll make up for that lost skill. He's got the athletic ability and the work ethic to be very good. I don't he will be very good. I also don't think he will be Mikki Moore. Somewhere in the middle. And for FFS, watch a game first. You're going by posts in a topic. What's the point of arguing with you? I'm done here.

I agree. and already he has skills a lot of bigs don't have. He can hit the fadeaway, he can score facing up, he can finish way above the rim.. and the blocks yesterday. I counted about 4.. boxscore was way off..