Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Until we get a legit C I don't think we can use terminology as playoff push especially being 10 games under with 25 to go in a very bad division. We cant stop penetration on the road--every single game there is a freeway to the basket. And if a second round pick for the Miami Heat who are 4 games over has enough clout to get major burn--then Gallinari should to.

Why does DJ Augustin can playing time for Charlotte--they are in a playoff push?
Why does Brook Lopez get playing tiem for NJ--they are in a playoff push
Why does JJ Hickson get consistent minutes for Cleveland--they are going for a one seed and a championship
Why does Mareesee Speights get consistent playing time for Philadelphia--they are going for a playoff push
Why do Roy Hibbert and Brandon Rush get consistent PT down the stretch as their team goes for a playoff push?
Why does Courtney Lee start for the Orladno Magic--they are also going for a one seed and a championship
Mario Chalmers for the heat--second round pick--why is he playing if the heat are going for the playoff push

I mean this whole class of rookie players are getting PT on teams going for playoff pushes--are the Knicks some kind of special team with special talent that they know cant play the 6th pick in the draft because of their playoff push?

DJ Augustine - 12.5 pts / 4 apg in 28.4 mpg
Brooke Lopez - 12.6 pts / 8.1 rpg in 29.9 mpg
JJ Hickson - 4.5 pts / 2.8 reb in 11.9 mpg
Mareese Speights - 8.1 pts / 3.9 reb in 15.5 mpg
Roy Hibbert - 6.2 pts / 2.8 reb in 12.2 mpg
Brandon Rush - 5.9 pts / 2.5 reb in 21 mpg
Courtney Lee - 7.1 pts / 2 reb in 22.6 mpg
Mario Chalmers - 10.1 pts / 4.7 apg in 31.4 mpg
Danilo Gallinari - 6.1 pts / 2.1 reb in 14.9 mpg


seems to me like Gallo's been getting more minutes this season than a couple of those players u just listed.

JJ Hickson is averaging worse #'s than Gallo in 3 less minutes per game... Mareese Speights is only seeing playing time right now cuz Elton Brand's out for the season & his #'s aren't that much superior than Gallo's to begin with... Roy Hibbert's #'s are pretty even w/Gallo's too in a couple less minutes played... Brandon Rush is averaging 6 pts in 22 minutes & Courtney Lee's averaging 7 pts in 23 minutes & u wanna use them as some example? Mario Chalmers is seeing playing time out of necessity cuz they have no other able bodies playing the PG position on their squad in MIA.

there's only 2 players on that list u posted that have distinguished themselves at all this year to even speak about, Augustine & Lopez... there are other rooks who were picked in the lottery this past draft like Joe Alexander & Jerryd Bayless who haven't done anything to distinguish themselves over Gallo either this season... all this & yet you insist on making these assumptions that Gallo will never amount to much more than a role player... why aren't u making the same assumptions about any of those other rooks? i bet if u had projected Gallo as a top prospect in the last draft u would be preaching patience w/him for the next couple years... 1 game he gets a DNP & all of a sudden Donnie Walsh & MDA are no longer interested in developing this kid in your eyes... Gallo will get playing time when they deem he's ready to handle the load... why don't u leave his handling up to the guys who actually know what they're doing & trust in their judgement a little more?

[Edited by - TMS on 02-22-2009 11:58 PM]

My point is if teams with much better records and or the same position as the Knicks utilize and develop their rookies during the so-called playoff push--why would we be shutting Gallinari out? To me it's balance--Gallinari needs to play on the same balance of a playoff push for the team. I don't see why Gallinari playing 10-14 minutes should hurt the team? They just did this whole schmeal about starting him like 4 games ago--now he's out? He's got 25 NBA games to gain experience. he's not a young rookie--this kid will be 21 this year---coming off 4 years of playing pro in the Euro leagues. If ANYONE should be ready to play it's Gallinari over almost anyone drafted this year--he should be more advanced and ready to go/

Posted by tkf:

Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two issues need to be separated: Gallo the pick vs Gallo the player.

The irony is that the guys most convinced Gallo was a bad pick are the ones most strident that he needs the most minutes, not because it's what's best for him, but so as to sooner declare themselves right.

Lets just say,for arguments sake, that he was an awful pick, he's damaged goods with little athleticism or skills, and he'll never amount to anything in this league.

If that is your point, and we accept that and let you win that war, then is it still mandatory that he get major minutes every night? Or, if since he's a marginal project on the way to becoming damaged goods would it then be okay if the coaching staff brought him along slowly?

What if management is in the middle and aren't quite ready to declare him a bust, but nor are they ready to declare him a cornerstone - then would it be okay for them to try him in different situations (starting vs off the bench) to see how his game and his back respond, and adjust accordingly?

If the kid is struggling physically, emotionally or whatever, at what point isn't it a requirement that they destroy him as quickly as possible?

you hit the nail on the head with that one.. Although I am one who wants to see him play now, I want that because I feel he can contribute and it will help his development. The funny thing is this, guys like Javele Mcgee and Bayless. .UK board favorites of most, have very similar if not less impressive stats than gallo,and pretty much play around the same amount of minutes. In Mcgee's case, the wizards are one of, if not the worst team in the league... why is he just getting 15mpg? Briggs was very high on this guy? is he a bust? Is there something wrong with him?

Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two issues need to be separated: Gallo the pick vs Gallo the player.

The irony is that the guys most convinced Gallo was a bad pick are the ones most strident that he needs the most minutes, not because it's what's best for him, but so as to sooner declare themselves right.

Lets just say,for arguments sake, that he was an awful pick, he's damaged goods with little athleticism or skills, and he'll never amount to anything in this league.

If that is your point, and we accept that and let you win that war, then is it still mandatory that he get major minutes every night? Or, if since he's a marginal project on the way to becoming damaged goods would it then be okay if the coaching staff brought him along slowly?

What if management is in the middle and aren't quite ready to declare him a bust, but nor are they ready to declare him a cornerstone - then would it be okay for them to try him in different situations (starting vs off the bench) to see how his game and his back respond, and adjust accordingly?

If the kid is struggling physically, emotionally or whatever, at what point isn't it a requirement that they destroy him as quickly as possible?

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two issues need to be separated: Gallo the pick vs Gallo the player.

The irony is that the guys most convinced Gallo was a bad pick are the ones most strident that he needs the most minutes, not because it's what's best for him, but so as to sooner declare themselves right.

Lets just say,for arguments sake, that he was an awful pick, he's damaged goods with little athleticism or skills, and he'll never amount to anything in this league.

If that is your point, and we accept that and let you win that war, then is it still mandatory that he get major minutes every night? Or, if since he's a marginal project on the way to becoming damaged goods would it then be okay if the coaching staff brought him along slowly?

What if management is in the middle and aren't quite ready to declare him a bust, but nor are they ready to declare him a cornerstone - then would it be okay for them to try him in different situations (starting vs off the bench) to see how his game and his back respond, and adjust accordingly?

If the kid is struggling physically, emotionally or whatever, at what point isn't it a requirement that they destroy him as quickly as possible?

I'm going to take a shot at answering this since I have a funny feeling that I'm one of the people that you're addressing.

It has nothing to do with being able to declare that we're right. Frankly that gets tiresome after being right so often. It has to do with maximizing the organizations assets as they try to rebuild. Either he's an asset and a big piece of the future or he's not. If he's not, then they need to figure this out and move on. That window is a short one as the summer of 2010 gets closer.

Nobody is clamoring for Gallinari to get major minutes every night. I think that 10-15 minutes is very reasonable. That's not token minutes and it's not destroying him as quickly as possible.

Let's talk reality now. Management is saying that Gallinari's development is being put on the backburner as they focus on making the playoffs. Then they back that up by DNPing him. That's not bringing him along slowly, that's retarding any growth whatsoever. What are they to learn about him in that situation? If his back can respond to sitting an entire game? If he's really struggling physically, emotionally or whatever then send him to the D-League. Or do you consider that to be destroying him too? The bottom line is that nothing good comes from doing nothing with this guy by DNPing him or playing him token minutes.

Posted by Vmart:

Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two issues need to be separated: Gallo the pick vs Gallo the player.

The irony is that the guys most convinced Gallo was a bad pick are the ones most strident that he needs the most minutes, not because it's what's best for him, but so as to sooner declare themselves right.

Lets just say,for arguments sake, that he was an awful pick, he's damaged goods with little athleticism or skills, and he'll never amount to anything in this league.

If that is your point, and we accept that and let you win that war, then is it still mandatory that he get major minutes every night? Or, if since he's a marginal project on the way to becoming damaged goods would it then be okay if the coaching staff brought him along slowly?

What if management is in the middle and aren't quite ready to declare him a bust, but nor are they ready to declare him a cornerstone - then would it be okay for them to try him in different situations (starting vs off the bench) to see how his game and his back respond, and adjust accordingly?

If the kid is struggling physically, emotionally or whatever, at what point isn't it a requirement that they destroy him as quickly as possible?

That is not true. Gallo needs to play because he is the future of the Knicks. Not Hughes he isn't the future of the Knicks he just another hired gun looking to get his. Gallo is an NYK draft pick he is a home grown talent and he needs to be playing. For him to be out of the rotation is wrong since he is one of the memebers of the team that put the Knicks in the position to be talking about playoffs. Why is he out of the rotation when at this moment in time Gallo is more qualified to be on the floor than Larry Hughes.

Walsh and D'Antoni need to stick to the plan and the plan is player development, rebuilding. The plan is more important than a measly playoff appearance. We have done this playoff run thing before with Lenny and Isiah, and the Knicks got their azz waxed and it set the organization back because there was no player development.

What was making this playoff push exciting was the fact that we were seeing young players develop before our eyes. Lee, Nate, Chandler and Gallo. Even if the Knicks don't make the playoffs we can take to fact that the players are developing and they made a run. Now turning to the veteran player over the young guys sends a wrong message to the fans and to the young players who have earned the right to be part of the playoff push. That is why Gallo needs to play.

In general, he is playing. I don't think he's shut down for the season.

Put another way, what if bringing in Hughes and Wilcox now allows management to play Gallo minutes appropriate to his health rather than too many?

I'm not trying to excuse anything with his back - if he's damaged goods it doesn't bode well. But nor do I buy that the kid is 100% and the more minutes he gets the better. The guy looks a little fragile to me, let him build up his strength.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by BlueSeats:

I think two issues need to be separated: Gallo the pick vs Gallo the player.

The irony is that the guys most convinced Gallo was a bad pick are the ones most strident that he needs the most minutes, not because it's what's best for him, but so as to sooner declare themselves right.

Lets just say,for arguments sake, that he was an awful pick, he's damaged goods with little athleticism or skills, and he'll never amount to anything in this league.

If that is your point, and we accept that and let you win that war, then is it still mandatory that he get major minutes every night? Or, if since he's a marginal project on the way to becoming damaged goods would it then be okay if the coaching staff brought him along slowly?

What if management is in the middle and aren't quite ready to declare him a bust, but nor are they ready to declare him a cornerstone - then would it be okay for them to try him in different situations (starting vs off the bench) to see how his game and his back respond, and adjust accordingly?

If the kid is struggling physically, emotionally or whatever, at what point isn't it a requirement that they destroy him as quickly as possible?

I'm going to take a shot at answering this since I have a funny feeling that I'm one of the people that you're addressing.

It has nothing to do with being able to declare that we're right. Frankly that gets tiresome after being right so often. It has to do with maximizing the organizations assets as they try to rebuild. Either he's an asset and a big piece of the future or he's not. If he's not, then they need to figure this out and move on. That window is a short one as the summer of 2010 gets closer.

Nobody is clamoring for Gallinari to get major minutes every night. I think that 10-15 minutes is very reasonable. That's not token minutes and it's not destroying him as quickly as possible.

Let's talk reality now. Management is saying that Gallinari's development is being put on the backburner as they focus on making the playoffs. Then they back that up by DNPing him. That's not bringing him along slowly, that's retarding any growth whatsoever. What are they to learn about him in that situation? If his back can respond to sitting an entire game? If he's really struggling physically, emotionally or whatever then send him to the D-League. Or do you consider that to be destroying him too? The bottom line is that nothing good comes from doing nothing with this guy by DNPing him or playing him token minutes.

You want things to be either/or with no middle ground. Like either fast track him or send him to the d-league. What if his back isn't up to steady minutes of the d-league either?

Why not just try him in different scenarios and see how he responds? Especially if his back is troubled?

You say you want them monitoring and assessing him. Is that best done from another league? Certainly not the Italian league, because you give no credence to his history there.