Posted by holfresh:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by holfresh:

There are a few confusions here with posters missing the nuances in the point some or at least I'm trying to get across...Most of us here don't believe the Knicks should be doing better at this point...I really don't believe that...I don't rail against MDA because the Knicks aren't winning...They need to lose as many games as possible...My problem is the system we are investing into the next four years...

If we are doing to clean house and start from the bottom and rebuild, why are we going off in such an obtuse direction...Why are we trying to build a team that fits a particular system that has proven to be difficult to win in the playoffs???...We are drafting soft 6' 10" three point shooters...

Let's say four years from now MDA didn't get the 3 all-star he needs to make his system work to precision?..Do we now have to scrap the entire roster and make moves to hopefully to rebuild in another coaches image...Rebuilding takes too much time, effort and patients to pigeon-hole a Franchise with such a narrow view...The system has proven to be faulty in the playoffs...Given what we have gone through the last eight years, its a huge gamble to make at this point...

dude, move on... Walsh chose MDA & he's here now... now that he made his choice we need to focus on getting MDA the players he needs to succeed in his system... what are u saying, that MDA should be fired because his system hasn't led to any championships in the past seasons where his teams have averaged 54 wins per season over a 4 year stretch? no coach or GM comes w/any guarantees of bringing u a championsip... that holds true in any sport u wanna talk about... of course rebuilding carries risks... every thing does in sports... sports wouldn't be exciting w/o that element of risk & reward.

I'm sorry I really don't understand...The great Pat Riley with many rings adjusted his style of play when he get here...What does MDA have blinders on and he can do nothing else...It's face pace three point shooting or bust???

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by holfresh:

There are a few confusions here with posters missing the nuances in the point some or at least I'm trying to get across...Most of us here don't believe the Knicks should be doing better at this point...I really don't believe that...I don't rail against MDA because the Knicks aren't winning...They need to lose as many games as possible...My problem is the system we are investing into the next four years...

If we are doing to clean house and start from the bottom and rebuild, why are we going off in such an obtuse direction...Why are we trying to build a team that fits a particular system that has proven to be difficult to win in the playoffs???...We are drafting soft 6' 10" three point shooters...

Let's say four years from now MDA didn't get the 3 all-star he needs to make his system work to precision?..Do we now have to scrap the entire roster and make moves to hopefully to rebuild in another coaches image...Rebuilding takes too much time, effort and patients to pigeon-hole a Franchise with such a narrow view...The system has proven to be faulty in the playoffs...Given what we have gone through the last eight years, its a huge gamble to make at this point...

So that's far different than critiquing wins and losses this year and is a fair criticism. he didn't win a title so it's fair to question. But you have to understand every coach has there system. It is extremely rare for a coach to change styles like Pat Riley did. Pat Riley is also one of the top coaches in NBA history. Are we going to compare every coach to him? Unless you want to find a way to get Phil or Pat or Popovich maybe you have to accept that every other coach has flaws and needs to improve their coaching over time.

Well Bip, that is my point...This is a good time as any to implement changes for success, we are rebuilding...It starts with emphasizing defense...

Posted by Allanfan20:

Holfresh, your Pat Riley arguement is not valid in anyway shape or form. When he coached LA, he had hall of fame players crawling up his sleeves who could play defense and any style of offense that his glorious heart desired. So why not make it a run and gun and exciting system? He was one of the few coaches who could have said "Ya know what, we're great, and I'm gonna make you look sexy while we're at it."

He didn't have that luxary with the Knicks. He had Ewing who could run, but had the bad knees, and everyone else was a defensive "Thug." He didn't have the luxary of making them a run and gun team. He had NO CHOICE.

Mike D'Antoni has the complete opposite of the LA teams. He has a team that can't play ANY style of play, whatsoever. They can't run, they can't play halfcourt, they can't do ANYTHING. If you don't believe me, prove it. We were more of a halfcourt team under Isiah and LB, and we couldn't do jack. We might have different players, but it's still the same story.

So why not instill a VERY watered down version of his Phoenix system, so that the current players can understand, just until he gets the players he wants and need.

This situation has no comparison to Pat Riley. lol

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by GKFv2:

So it's his offense and not the players, correct? Duhon is OK but not a starter. Marbury wouldn't have done any better. Nate? LOL @ him at PG. Then you have Crawford 2 at forward (Al Harrington) who I could care less about since he is gone in 2 years. Who else? Lee has an offensive game? what can Q do? Tim Thomas? Curry? What? Who's left? Malik and Roberson? The personnel sucks. I'm pretty sure it's not the offense. Besides Duhon and the recently acquired Harrington, the guys I mentioned are all former Isiah Thomas acquisitions - including Tim Thomas.

watching how this whole offense is predicated on the pg penetrating into the lane, marbury would trump duhon tenfold.

forget the players for a second. they don't run any plays. it's one on one. stop looking at it in such extreme terms. yes, they don't have the talent, but i don't think d'antoni is maximizing their potential.

I dissagree, it is predicated on ball movement, penetrating and then PASSING.. that is where marbury would fail... marbury, nate and all would make us worse than the GS warriors.... why is it so hard to see that marbury trumps no one, because he doesn't run any offense except his own?

it relies 100% on the pg. duhon isn't good enough so they have to move the ball around on the perimeter. the ball movement in pheonix started with nash getting into the paint. since duhon can't do it as well, it relies on the other guys making more decisions with the ball. that's why you see so many bad shots/chucks. if the team had better shooters, then it would mask it better, but they don't. that's why i think marbury would've done a better job than duhon.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-12-2009 11:20 AM]

duhon isn't good enough to, what? his offense is not all about the PG, duhon has gotten a lot of guys in great shooting situations. They just miss.. when Al and nate get the ball and won't pass it, what does that have to do with duhons ability.. the only thing marbury would have done would be to add to the selfish play we are seeing now, but instead he would hang his head, say he got his 20-8 and point the fingers at his teamates... is that what you want?

Duhon's not good enough to consistently win games by himself. It's a silly coaching decision and a silly management decision. I think that was dj's original point, that MDA hasn't put his players in a position to succeed. The Knicks can hit foul shots; make them get to the line.

we have no one that can do that, and really is that what we are trying to do here, have a 1 man show? other than lebron, and kobe, there are not many of those guys around... the knick have been put in many situations to win.. D'antoni can't make the shots for them. simple and plain... And how can he make someone get to the line.Al harrington drove 4 times in a row to the basket and didn't get a call, is that Dantoni's fault?



[Edited by - tkf on 12-01-2009 2:45 PM]

I'm with you, it's not his fault that no one on this team can't do that. What's on MDA is that he continues to give the players the green light for three. They aren't good enough to get the green light from three. As a coach, he should have them get to the line. They're a good free throw shooting team. Take advantage of it. That's all I'm saying

If you had a team of Chris Paul, John Stockton, magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Tim Duncan are they jacking up threes in D'Antoni's offense? Players make the decisions on the court. Our players make the wrong ones.

I beleive that D'Antoni expressed frustration at the team for "jacking up shots" instead of running the offense. A coach does not play and can only do so much.

This used to happen to me when I coached all the time. I would have a crappy young roster. They would make silly mistake after silly mistake. I would be criticized for not coaching fundamentals and being okay with the shots and passes they make. The next year I'd have a more mature roster and/or better players. That next year all of a sudden I was a genius on the fundamentals.

I'm not saying the onus should be off the players. They suck. But that's why they're all getting shown the door once their contracts are up. MDA is supposed to be around for a while (as is Walsh) and I think it his job to maximize his talent. There should never be any excuse for this type of play. I'm not saying Fire him. What I'm saying is **** rolls down hill and it rolls down from the top.

Posted by Allanfan20:

I dunno, ask Mike D'Antoni. He adjusted to having Shaq. Oh wait, he can't adjust according to you.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by TMS:

i still don't get how MDA can be questioned for having a system that's unproven in winning championships & yet people consistently harp over not hiring a head coach who hasn't even had any experience coaching in the NBA at all, much less developing any kind of system that leads to winning basketball.

D'Antoni troubles me. His answer to this losing streak is not buckling down on the defensive end, improving shot selection or taking care of the ball. His answer is to run more. I would expect more out of a quality coach than that. This is the time to evaluate a coach, not so much when everything is going perfect. That's just my opinion, so don't get bent out of shape you guys.