Posted by TheSage:
Still waiting for someone to point out what Obama has accomplished other than refining his oratory skills.
Yes she is less qualified to be President than Biden but they are running for the No. 2 slot-on the other hand she is more qualified to be No. 1 than the senator from Illinois.
She has more executive experience than the other 3 people running combined and more experience in foreign relations than Obama having negotiated with foreign governments over various trade and rights agreements between them and Alaska. She has also been in elective office far longer than Obama.
She may have more conservative views than most of us but has shown she will not impose those views on other. She may oppose gay marriage but vetoed a bill denying rights to members of a civil union.
The McCain Palin combo will be offset by a Democratic majority in Congress-whereas the other side will have free reign.
Still waiting to hear the long list of Obama accomplishments.
[Edited by - TheSage on 09-03-2008 09:25 AM]
So Palin's negotiating fishing rights and ocean control off the coast of Alaska and working with Canada about borders and trade constitutes significant foreign policy "experience?"
Wow, we have really sunk to new depths here. Apparently, Rove was on FoxNews arguing that Bush had experience also because Texas borders with Mexico. I mean, really, this is an actual argument? This is more about diplomatic relations than foreign policy, because it's not exactly like these states are creating policies that can exist far outside of the laws of the U.S. Constitution. So no secret negotiations of the utmost importance probably took place over fishing rights.
And if you wanna go that route, Obama is far more qualified as an international diplomat than Palin and McCain, as he visited and met with leaders in multiple countries around the world, before this summer, and is generally well liked and trusted more than most of our other poltical leaders abroad, which will probably have far more impact on international relations and foreign policy than Palin's fishing rights and Canadian border "negotiating experience."
This entire point about Obama's "experience" is a non-sequitur. You can go look up his "accomplishments" quite easily. The info is available.
However, have you ever seen 'The Untouchables?'
I've always loved this quote from when Sean Connery and Kevin Costner's characters are searching for a cop to assist in their taking on Al Capone...
"If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't get it from the barrel, get it off the tree."
Experience can be a double edged sword. Overemphasis on experience can be a slippery slope argument because how do we define it, and there is sound evidence in the workplace that it does not necessarily correlate to success. Reardless, it isn't exactly like Obama has no "experience" in even the realm of politics. The term "experience" is something we can debate all day. This argument about "experience" confuses me when there is no clear standard for electing presidents that most voters adhere to, and I'm unsure if anyone can even measure what level of "experience," which I can only guess you mean by political experience, is necessary to be "qualified" as President. To suggest his oratory skills are all that we know about him is some serious spin you're buying into. Let's also point to the fact that Bush also had "executive experience" as Governor of Texas. Negotiating foreign trade relations with Russia? Right, just like Palin's "experience" in national security must be strong because they deal with the fear of an attack by Russia.
Obama's LIFE experience combined with his success politically, under very challenging circumstances in his party (against the Clintons, given his racial identity, etc.) thus far seems to be quite sufficient for the job which often involves political attacks and a need for endurance. In fact, the question about age being a significant factor is also overstated in that folks mistakenly assume with age comes wisdom. If you are not exposed to many different "experiences" in life, and you are an older person, I would suspect one to be less wise in their decision making than one who is younger but has had more exposure.
Obama's Jackie Robinson-like rise to this position, character, intelligence, poise, and experience as a leader throughout his life seems to be worth valuing quite highly, and is often how people with less "experience" feel ambitious enough to go after and land high level positions and succeed. In fact, charisma is HIGHLY valued as President because the ability to communicate to others, whether in a speech, with groups, or individuals is a necessary part of the job. For example, LBJ was able to get significant legislation passed on the Civil Rights Act, etc. because of this ability to communicate. Current NY Governor, Patterson, is pretty well liked amongst politicians in NY, even amongst Republicans because he is a savvy communicator.
Now, those two examples are folks who have been in their respective political arenas for longer, but Obama is very well liked by practically everyone in the Democratic party, as well as popularly across parties, which was one can see how George Bush II and Bill Clinton utilized as an effective tool of persuasion when dealing with the opposition, and in accomplishing their goals. His ability as a Democrat, and a person of African descent to appeal to the range of views in the party (and non-registered progressives who generally support Dems views) says quite a bit to me, as Hillary was unable to do so.
Speeches should not be underestimated in importance as a leader, nor should charisma. Reagan "lovers" (of whom I have never identified with for personal reasons) seem to have strongly connected with these aspects of his persona. What was his "experience" other than being a big actor that gained increased celebrity status after switching parties and saying things like "to send the welfare bums back to work" to win the Governorship of California? Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sonny Bono were also very or completely inexperienced when they ran for office, as was Jesse Ventura.
Arguably, Obama's smaller resume has privileged him to have not been involved in some of the political compromises Dems made that have frustrated much of their base, and weakened their support amongst independents angry at Bush and the Republicans, which cost them the 2004 election.
In the U.S. we allow for any citizen to run for president. Why bother running 3rd party candidates without experience then if they aren't "experienced" either?
The point is, all this disucssion about experience, to me, is complete propaganda and quite obviously a way of changing the debate that Republicans really can't win otherwise. The interesting bit is the general reliance on a generally negative platform that hurt Hillary, because Obama has shown to be so effective at handling such attacks.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
9/3/2008 1:35 PM
