Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Vmart:

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Vmart:

There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.

Thats not true, at least for me. I just think we signed a low quality player for too much money, exactly the same we did with Jeffries 2 years ago. That being said, its true that is a low move risk because we have signed Duhon just for a couple of years, but it does not change the fact that we have wasted some $.

Why are you worried about dollars and cents when the move doesn't affect the 2010 cap space movement.

Because we probably wasted the MLE once again. Being so over the cap with a roster full of stupid bad players means the MLE is one of the few chances we have to improve the team a little bit. Im not very worried nor Im going to take a plane to NY to smash Walsh, but giving the full MLE to a mediocre player like Duhon is just unnecesary and useless. Is like when you are a kid and you father gives you 10$ each week and they day you get them, you throw them in a garbage can. You will survive, but still pretty bad.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 05-07-2008 7:50 PM]

The only question is what were we going to do with the MLE anyway? If two years is the goal so we have a shot at being under the cap, then how many players do you realistically think we could sign for 2 years at MLE or less? The list is probably small, since the NBA average salary is over $4 million per. If Duhon winds up being a stopgap, I think most of us should be fine with that, right? The only logic I can see against it is I guess Duhon could help us win some games, and the goal could be to lose as much as possible for two years. Getting a high pick would be great, but we owe one of our picks in the next few years to Phoenix anyway.

To me, I could see Duhon being a stopgap, in which case his contract wasn't a big deal in the long run. On the other hand, let's say Duhon winds up being a nice piece for us. Why couldn't we find a way to resign him at that time too? I don't mind us having a two-year evaluation period on a player. I think the cost is a little high, but it's minor compared to what we've done in the past.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Vmart:

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Vmart:

There are people who disagree with this move, I am against this move but its a low risk move, and that is fine because those who are really against this move have a need to have a superstar at all cost. The Knicks have been down that road before and it hasn't worked. Duhon is a decent player and when you get down to it the folk who are against this move will all ways be about the offense first. If Duhon was averaging 15 and 5 the people on this board would be flipping out about this signing.

Thats not true, at least for me. I just think we signed a low quality player for too much money, exactly the same we did with Jeffries 2 years ago. That being said, its true that is a low move risk because we have signed Duhon just for a couple of years, but it does not change the fact that we have wasted some $.

Why are you worried about dollars and cents when the move doesn't affect the 2010 cap space movement.

Because we probably wasted the MLE once again. Being so over the cap with a roster full of stupid bad players means the MLE is one of the few chances we have to improve the team a little bit. Im not very worried nor Im going to take a plane to NY to smash Walsh, but giving the full MLE to a mediocre player like Duhon is just unnecesary and useless. Is like when you are a kid and you father gives you 10$ each week and they day you get them, you throw them in a garbage can. You will survive, but still pretty bad.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 05-07-2008 7:50 PM]

The only question is what were we going to do with the MLE anyway? If two years is the goal so we have a shot at being under the cap, then how many players do you realistically think we could sign for 2 years at MLE or less? The list is probably small, since the NBA average salary is over $4 million per. If Duhon winds up being a stopgap, I think most of us should be fine with that, right? The only logic I can see against it is I guess Duhon could help us win some games, and the goal could be to lose as much as possible for two years. Getting a high pick would be great, but we owe one of our picks in the next few years to Phoenix anyway.

To me, I could see Duhon being a stopgap, in which case his contract wasn't a big deal in the long run. On the other hand, let's say Duhon winds up being a nice piece for us. Why couldn't we find a way to resign him at that time too? I don't mind us having a two-year evaluation period on a player. I think the cost is a little high, but it's minor compared to what we've done in the past.

I agree. I doubt we could get a better player for a 2 year, MLE deal. That's basically the cheapest you'll ever get a non-rookie for unless it's an already wealthy veteran finishing up his career for the vets minimum or a guy who's been out of the league a while and is coming back for the league min.

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by Solace:

The only question is what were we going to do with the MLE anyway? If two years is the goal so we have a shot at being under the cap, then how many players do you realistically think we could sign for 2 years at MLE or less? The list is probably small, since the NBA average salary is over $4 million per. If Duhon winds up being a stopgap, I think most of us should be fine with that, right? The only logic I can see against it is I guess Duhon could help us win some games, and the goal could be to lose as much as possible for two years. Getting a high pick would be great, but we owe one of our picks in the next few years to Phoenix anyway.

To me, I could see Duhon being a stopgap, in which case his contract wasn't a big deal in the long run. On the other hand, let's say Duhon winds up being a nice piece for us. Why couldn't we find a way to resign him at that time too? I don't mind us having a two-year evaluation period on a player. I think the cost is a little high, but it's minor compared to what we've done in the past.

Of course I dont know "realistically" who would have signed for 2 years. I just think a mediocre player like Duhon is one of the last ones I would have taken into consideration, especially considering that we could have drafted a PG in this draft. I just find useless (thats the word that defines this signing) to give almost 6 million $ to him. In fact I have some doubts he will last as our starting PG for the whole season. You are right, if he ends up being a bust is not a big deal, but still it was a wasted small oportunity of improving the roster a bit.
On another story, Im not sure (well, I could say Im sure of the opposite) D'Antoni wants a high pick for next years draft. He wants to win some games and help Dolan sell tickets like always has been here in NY, and we all know thats what will happen at worst (or best, depending on who are you asking, LOL): 30-35 wins.

Anyway I will root for Duhon as much as anybody and hope he proves me wrong, but at the moment I cant say Im hapy with what D'Antoni and Walsh have done.

I'm watching very closely for that possibility but I haven't seen any evidence for it yet. Why didn't he trade the lottery pick and an expiring contract for the best starphuck he could pull off? Why did he remain cap conscious with the MLE deal, knowing that he could probably get a better win-now player if he had offered the full 5 year, $30+ mil MLE?

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by TMS:

why would anyone bash a 2 year MLE signing for a guy w/a 4-1 assist to turnover ratio for his career? hell, if we'd have signed Marcus Williams to that deal some o'yall would be busting a nut like there's no tomorrow right about now.

What exactly will he add to this team? Marb is a better point guard than Duhon. Nates a better player as is Craw. This doesn't improve thie team at all. Duhon isn't a play maker, he doesn't make anyone better, he doesn't break down the D, get in the lane draw defenders, dish........He's just there. Yeah, he hustles, plays hard, but this is lateral move.

on a 2 year MLE deal what more did u expect? y'all are complaining about a move just for the sake of doing so... this doesn't hurt our cap situation at all, it adds a player who plays D on the perimeter & has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than anyone we currently have, & hopefully it signals the giving the boot to the biggest cancer on this team... what are the downsides? who cares if it's a lateral move? at least it brings some elements to this team we didn't currently have... at best he can be an able starting PG for us... at worst he'll be a nice backup... at the dollars we signed him to who cares? he hustles & plays hard, yes... since when did this team no longer need players like that? i wanted to go after Arroyo myself but i can't complain about this signing... Duhon was always a logical option to target using a portion of the MLE in my eyes... unless u can name me some better options to sign at those dollars i'm not sure what everyone is complaining about.

The benefit for the Knicks:
They get a pass-first PG who doesn't need to dominate the ball to contribute. They also keep their salary cap flexibility 2 years down the road for the big FA period. While I have major doubts that Lebron would ever leave Cleveland, I think any number of other FAs could potentially move to NY. Duhon's ability to hit the 3 should spread the floor and he instant becomes the most proven defender at either guard position on the Knicks. Assuming he stays healthy (and stays out of trouble), he should be a good addition for the team. We've long needed one of these heady winning players from successful NCAA programs.

The benefit for Duhon:
While he may not have gained long term job security with a long contract (nor the highest valued overall contract offer), he probably got the best 2-year deal. Not only that, I don't think there was a better situation for him to increase his stock for that FA period. At 28ish at the end of this contract, he'll be in the best possible situation to sign one last big long term deal.

Posted by Solace:

As I said earlier, Duhon is solid. $6 million a year for Chris Duhon is definitely an overpay on a per year basis, but at least we didn't lock him up long term. As for Craw and Nate, they're really not point guards, unfortunately. If either of those guys could really play point, their value would much higher than it current is. Mardy is also terrible. Marbury, hopefully, won't play a minute this year. So, factor that in an Duhon definitely has a role for a two years. The benefit of this is that for two years, it gives a solid player, but not someone who is likely to improve our record drastically. Then, we'll have given a good two year evaluation to Duhon.

The ultimate conclusion I have is that this is really a low risk move. There probably aren't a lot of free agents who would've been into two years of MLE money. So, us not screwing up is an instant B+.

[Edited by - Solace on Jul 04 2008 4:37 PM]

Solid player, short deal. Walsh and Co. played it safe with this pickup. I can see Duhon doing well as a Knick, excelling in D'Antoni's uptempo system.

Walsh hasn't made a decent free agent signing since the early 90s. This move is pointless. Was this the move that Walsh was bragging about? I hope not. Walsh has been in retirement mode the last 10 years. LOL, at people who think it is a great move because he didn't sign past 2 years. What are you going to do in two years? You're back at ground zero. LOL at Duhon now being a team oriented player. The guy was nearly release because of his locker room antics and late nite partying. Walsh has said that training camp is going to be competitive. My prediction Marbury easily beats out Duhon in his street clothes, on two bad legs while nailing the latest MSG intern in the back of his truck.