Posted by fishmike:

this is probably one of the dumber threads I have read.

The opponents of DAntoni quote such reasons for disliking him as he artificially inflates stats making his teams appear better than they are. It important to note that one of those stats that appears to become inflated is wins. On the player level all star appearances and MVPs also become artificially inflated.

So we all agree a large part of this roster needs to be moved. We all also agree we have a coach that will put in a system that will produce better performances from these players, as well as winning more games, there in turn inflating their value around the league (artificially or otherwise).

Yet these same people cry daily that this guy is here in the first place. Duh

Meanwhile they would prefer a rookie coach with no experience either as a head coach or assistant. To what? Watch Isiah's leftovers quit on him and become untradable? More than they already are?

There is no logic or reason, which is why the arguments break down to things like "the wins were inflated" or "they were pretenders."

Old and boring. The Suns were as good as any team that didn't win a title last 5 years. Yawn

Posted by fishmike:

this is probably one of the dumber threads I have read.

The opponents of DAntoni quote such reasons for disliking him as he artificially inflates stats making his teams appear better than they are. It important to note that one of those stats that appears to become inflated is wins. On the player level all star appearances and MVPs also become artificially inflated.

So we all agree a large part of this roster needs to be moved. We all also agree we have a coach that will put in a system that will produce better performances from these players, as well as winning more games, there in turn inflating their value around the league (artificially or otherwise).

Yet these same people cry daily that this guy is here in the first place. Duh

Meanwhile they would prefer a rookie coach with no experience either as a head coach or assistant. To what? Watch Isiah's leftovers quit on him and become untradable? More than they already are?

There is no logic or reason, which is why the arguments break down to things like "the wins were inflated" or "they were pretenders."

Old and boring. The Suns were as good as any team that didn't win a title last 5 years. Yawn

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by fishmike:

this is probably one of the dumber threads I have read.

The opponents of DAntoni quote such reasons for disliking him as he artificially inflates stats making his teams appear better than they are. It important to note that one of those stats that appears to become inflated is wins. On the player level all star appearances and MVPs also become artificially inflated.

So we all agree a large part of this roster needs to be moved. We all also agree we have a coach that will put in a system that will produce better performances from these players, as well as winning more games, there in turn inflating their value around the league (artificially or otherwise).

Yet these same people cry daily that this guy is here in the first place. Duh

Meanwhile they would prefer a rookie coach with no experience either as a head coach or assistant. To what? Watch Isiah's leftovers quit on him and become untradable? More than they already are?

There is no logic or reason, which is why the arguments break down to things like "the wins were inflated" or "they were pretenders."

Old and boring. The Suns were as good as any team that didn't win a title last 5 years. Yawn

Current Knicks players are exposed as garbage. They were unable to perform under any kind of coach and in any kind of system.
And there is no reason to think they will do better anywhere else in the league. And why to even try, if teams can get scores of better players.
There is only matter of time for Walsh and Mike D to see this first hand and start dumping the crap by any means possible.
Then will see what this 2 man worth at their respective positions.



[Edited by - arkrud on 05-28-2008 12:15 PM]

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by arkrud:

Posted by fishmike:

this is probably one of the dumber threads I have read.

The opponents of DAntoni quote such reasons for disliking him as he artificially inflates stats making his teams appear better than they are. It important to note that one of those stats that appears to become inflated is wins. On the player level all star appearances and MVPs also become artificially inflated.

So we all agree a large part of this roster needs to be moved. We all also agree we have a coach that will put in a system that will produce better performances from these players, as well as winning more games, there in turn inflating their value around the league (artificially or otherwise).

Yet these same people cry daily that this guy is here in the first place. Duh

Meanwhile they would prefer a rookie coach with no experience either as a head coach or assistant. To what? Watch Isiah's leftovers quit on him and become untradable? More than they already are?

There is no logic or reason, which is why the arguments break down to things like "the wins were inflated" or "they were pretenders."

Old and boring. The Suns were as good as any team that didn't win a title last 5 years. Yawn

Current Knicks players are exposed as garbage. They were unable to perform under any kind of coach and in any kind of system.
And there is no reason to think they will do better anywhere else in the league. And why to even try, if teams can get scores of better players.
There is only matter of time for Walsh and Mike D to see this first hand and start dumping the crap by any means possible.
Then will see what this 2 man worth at their respective positions.



[Edited by - arkrud on 05-28-2008 12:15 PM]

The knicks players are flawed. But every team has flawed players, its the teams that balance the roster out so that the players strengths and weaknesses all complement each other and work together.

Curry is a low post scoring *role player* he isn't a go to guy, but he could be a fall back option. The PG should be the one creating the offense for him. David Lee was a solid fit along side of him, we needed another athletic defensive banger who could play PF/C. Limit Curry's mins to 25-28mins per game as a role player.

Marbury should not have been asked to run the offense. He should have been allowed to do his thing as far as scoring and passing, but we should have brought in a Chris Duhon or Jarett Jack instead of Nate Robinson type of guy to man the PG floor general duties. While Marbury & Crawford put up the scoring and assist stats.

Richardson, Ariza, Balkman, Chandler while i would like an upgrade over Richardson which I think Chandler will be. We would have had to settle for them.

If they kept balance, stayed away from that Francis move. Moved Frye for a banger for balance, & Nate for a floor general for balance. That would have then opened up the option to use the 2 first rd draft picks maybe to target a proven G/F or PF/C or package them with Richardson for an upgrade at SF.

None of that was impossible or drastic, just a couple tweeks to balance the roster and there would have been huge difference in the view of the players. Granted we wouldn't be competing for a championship or the ECC but we would been above average and players would have more value to go toward the next step. Thats how it could have been with a smarter guy in charge. We would probably be in the situation Pacers are in now only with better cap situation.

Posted by TMS:

we haven't even made a roster move yet & you're already condemning the new regime of following the same Dolan/Isiah policy of retooling.

man, Isiah sure did a number on you bro.

Posted by holfresh:

So let me get this straight, all the Isiah naysayers saying we should rebuild are now gone...Isiah was really right in trying to retool on the fly...The problem was Isiah himself, not his/Dolan's ideas..These new cast members will get it right...It's not the methodology but the actor...

Finally, after years of defending Isiah and his methodology, I have come to the realization that rebuilding on the fly and over the cap can prove more difficult than the normal route through the draft...We tend to get flawed cast offs from teams that have erred in overpaying their one dimensional stars...I don't doubt the new management can do a much better job assessing talent... But after eight years of playing to the same Dolan tune of retooling...How do so many here find it so easy to sign on to the same script that has failed prolifically time and time again...The last three years may have been the most painful in my history of being a Knick fan..Yes, more painful than the Rory Sparrow, Ray Williams, Ken "the Animal" Banister years...Yet many here seem to be chanting for four more years...I'm shocked...

I don't see this as the issue being the actors but more the methodology...Altanta, New Orleans, Cleveland, Orlando, Utah, Toronto, Philly and Portland has me convinced...

if retool = dumping most of the roster, building a pipeline of young talent, changing the culture to one of winning and accountability and building a team that has some kind of style of play then yes.. I am in favor of retooling

Posted by CrushAlot:

I did not like the D'Antoni hire and it has nothing to do with inflating guys stats. D'Antoni has said that his philosophy is that if he treats his players like men they will play right. I think that is a flawed philosophy in NY. He has short practices and he has said in interviews while coaching Phoenix that his job is not to develop young players. It was reported that he was unhappy in Phoenix because he was criticized and being asked to adjust his teams style of play. It has been reported that he is sensitive and does not have a thick skin. I also do not think the style of play that he coaches leads to teams winning championships. In addition I think he was hired because he is a biggest name and not because he was the best fit to rebuild the team. This makes me think that the team is following the previous regime's philosophy of paying alot for big names that don't fit. I would love to have had Mark Jackson or Tom T. start their head coaching careers in NY. I also would have much rather had Rick Carlisle, Scott Skiles, or Avery Johnson. I think all of these guys would have been better fits and more suited to rebuilding a team of guys who appear to lack some of the very basic fundamentals. I also think D'Antoni retaining Herb was a mistake. I see D'Antoni as being a combination of Don Chaney and Don Nelson in NY except that he will hold shorter practices.