Posted by TMS:

wow, u really wanna argue semantics here with me now? ok bitty, ur right & i was wrong... Gasol is not making max dollars... he's still overpaid tho, just like your homeboy Zach... better?

btw, i'll take JO over either one of those guys in a heartbeat

Posted by Bonn1997:

I'll grant you that JO's man to man defense is better if you grant that Pau is more durable and is the better low-post scorer, perimeter scorer, passer, and rebounder at this stage in their careers.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by TMS:

wow, u really wanna argue semantics here with me now? ok bitty, ur right & i was wrong... Gasol is not making max dollars... he's still overpaid tho, just like your homeboy Zach... better?

btw, i'll take JO over either one of those guys in a heartbeat

TMS

How much do you think these guys should be making? You keep saying this player or that player is overpaid but you don't seem to acknowledge thats its the market that allows these guys to get these type of contracts. So how much do you think someone like Gasol should be making what 30,000?

the point isn't that what i think they should get paid or not get paid should be the norm... i understand fully the concept that players get paid whatever the market will bear... that doesn't mean they're worth the dollars they're making... JO's highly overpaid too, there's no question about it, but i still would take him over those other 2 guys for the simple fact that he can make an impact on both ends of the floor in ways that those other guys simply can't... i'll say it again, IMO i think the Grizz made an awesome deal & this opens up a way for their franchise to rebuild, even moreso than the Blazers in fact because they actually got back some players who can help their franchise going forward w/Crittendon & those 2 1st round picks, instead of just Channing Frye & cap relief like what POR got from us, & I thought that trade was brilliant on POR's part as well as i'm sure you'll remember... funny how a player like Pau is universally hailed as an awesome acquisition for the Lakers but Zach is a horrible one for the Knicks in all your minds, they're really not all that far apart in terms of talent & ability.

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by TMS:

wow, u really wanna argue semantics here with me now? ok bitty, ur right & i was wrong... Gasol is not making max dollars... he's still overpaid tho, just like your homeboy Zach... better?

btw, i'll take JO over either one of those guys in a heartbeat

TMS

How much do you think these guys should be making? You keep saying this player or that player is overpaid but you don't seem to acknowledge thats its the market that allows these guys to get these type of contracts. So how much do you think someone like Gasol should be making what 30,000?

the point isn't that what i think they should get paid or not get paid should be the norm... i understand fully the concept that players get paid whatever the market will bear... that doesn't mean they're worth the dollars they're making... JO's highly overpaid too, there's no question about it, but i still would take him over those other 2 guys for the simple fact that he can make an impact on both ends of the floor in ways that those other guys simply can't... i'll say it again, IMO i think the Grizz made an awesome deal & this opens up a way for their franchise to rebuild, even moreso than the Blazers in fact because they actually got back some players who can help their franchise going forward w/Crittendon & those 2 1st round picks, instead of just Channing Frye & cap relief like what POR got from us, & I thought that trade was brilliant on POR's part as well as i'm sure you'll remember... funny how a player like Pau is universally hailed as an awesome acquisition for the Lakers but Zach is a horrible one for the Knicks in all your minds, they're really not all that far apart in terms of talent & ability.

If the complaints are against Zach were about his talent on the court, you'd have an excellent point. However, most complaints about Zach have to do with his lack of defense (you might not think Pau is a good defender, but he's better than Zach) and his terrible team-killing personality. Zach is the kind of player that you could lose at any time due to him being in jail! If Zach dropped the baggage, he'd be one hell of an asset.

Not to mention, the Lakers are in a much different situation than the Knicks. If Zach went to the Lakers, I think people would've felt differently about the acquisition than him going to the Knicks.

what bothered me about him was his cap killing contract

Posted by bitty41:

Solace,

I don't know if what your saying is true or not but how do you know that he has a team-killing personality? The reason I ask is because on the court he seems to be pretty low key he's not screaming at anyone or arguing with his teammates. Outside of the time he got tossed out of the Sac game and the on the bench arguement with Isiah he seems to have a relatively low profile here. If you have some new stuff by all means I wouldn't mind hearing b/c I would think much differently of him if he was an a-hole on the court towards his teammates or behind the scenes

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by TMS:

wow, u really wanna argue semantics here with me now? ok bitty, ur right & i was wrong... Gasol is not making max dollars... he's still overpaid tho, just like your homeboy Zach... better?

btw, i'll take JO over either one of those guys in a heartbeat

TMS

How much do you think these guys should be making? You keep saying this player or that player is overpaid but you don't seem to acknowledge thats its the market that allows these guys to get these type of contracts. So how much do you think someone like Gasol should be making what 30,000?

the point isn't that what i think they should get paid or not get paid should be the norm... i understand fully the concept that players get paid whatever the market will bear... that doesn't mean they're worth the dollars they're making... JO's highly overpaid too, there's no question about it, but i still would take him over those other 2 guys for the simple fact that he can make an impact on both ends of the floor in ways that those other guys simply can't... i'll say it again, IMO i think the Grizz made an awesome deal & this opens up a way for their franchise to rebuild, even moreso than the Blazers in fact because they actually got back some players who can help their franchise going forward w/Crittendon & those 2 1st round picks, instead of just Channing Frye & cap relief like what POR got from us, & I thought that trade was brilliant on POR's part as well as i'm sure you'll remember... funny how a player like Pau is universally hailed as an awesome acquisition for the Lakers but Zach is a horrible one for the Knicks in all your minds, they're really not all that far apart in terms of talent & ability.

If the complaints are against Zach were about his talent on the court, you'd have an excellent point. However, most complaints about Zach have to do with his lack of defense (you might not think Pau is a good defender, but he's better than Zach) and his terrible team-killing personality. Zach is the kind of player that you could lose at any time due to him being in jail! If Zach dropped the baggage, he'd be one hell of an asset.

Not to mention, the Lakers are in a much different situation than the Knicks. If Zach went to the Lakers, I think people would've felt differently about the acquisition than him going to the Knicks.

i have never complained about Zach's percieved team killing personality once... what bothered me about him was his cap killing contract & the fact that he's not a 2 way player on the floor & didn't address any of our needs at the time... if we'd have traded for Pau i would have felt the exact same way... i realize the Lakers are in the different situation than the Knicks & i realize that Pau could potentially help them make it further in the playoffs... i get all that... i never said the Lakers made a horrible trade i don't believe... what i said was that the Grizzlies made an excellent trade for their franchise... i guess i must not be speaking English on these forums cuz my posts are regularly getting misinterpreted of late.

Posted by TMS:

sorry if i'm getting on your nerves but it seems to me people are interpreting my statements here as saying the Lakers made a horrible trade... maybe i misunderstood... i've already acknowledged that Pau will help their franchise in the near future... what he would not have done is live up to his contract playing in MEM, & that's why i say they made an excellent trade here.

Posted by TMS:

what do you mean, Karl Malone is not a C & Lee isn't even in his league... i can't believe you'd actually say something like that... how much is Karl Malone making anyway? i think he's gotta be overpaid... bring back Travis Knight & Vin Baker!