Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Papabear:

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by Papabear:

Papabear Says

Trueblue: You are the only one giving false statements. Trying to convence people that Zeke is as bad as Imus or what he said is as bad. I'll repeat!! For over 20 years Imus have been doing stuff like this and getting away with it for years. How dare you compare Zeke to him.
Now the truth is starting to come out in the trial. But not matter what happens and how many time Zeke is found innocent. your verdick will always be guilty!!! Because that's the hatter in you.

Papabear (keeping it real)

You've managed to do it yet again. Go back and look at this thread again, if you even have the guts and find out where I even mentioned the other guys name. I've yet to do it. I haven't once made a comparison of I SAY UGH to the other individual. My main argument since day one of me hearing his disposition is.... he should have kept his opinion to himself because his distinction wasn't asked of him initially(especially if he thought he'd offend someone, which he acknowledged a forehand) and calling someone out of their name is wrong no matter who's saying it. I agreed with a few statements this journalist made in her article and as to which ones I never clarified, nor do you even know yourself. You're probably are getting me confused with someone else and losing track of the conversation to make a logical retort which isn't surprising...

Keep spitting out the REFUSE as I dispose of it to the CURB.

Papabear Says

I didn't say it was all you it was Arkrud too. You guys were trying to say that I was cutting and running from the forum and that wasn.t the case. Just because you don't say the name we know who you mean. Fess up!! I saw the disconnect between some of us and I felt that it was time to let it go. But no I was accused of back pedaling. I just felt you guys had your opinion and it won't change and I have mine and I won't change. I felt we all said what we wanted to say. It's like two heavy weights pounding each other so much that the rest of the blows don't really mean anything because I ain't moving and neither is you. So find someone else to fight with or talk about something else and I'm not back pedaling. If you attack me again I'll be back.

Papabear (Long live Zeke and Marbs)

For the love of God, please, nobody attack him again. That way, maybe he'll be a man of his words and won't be back.

Posted by BlueSeats:

killa, your post is lengthy and unfortunately a bit dense, in that you quote my post in it's entirety without breaking it into the smaller components you choose to debate. At points I don't get the context of your comments, like where you speak very defensively even though you were never named or quoted in my post. This leaves me feeling the need to go back and reread all your old posts in this thread in order to address your concerns relative to mine, and frankly I'm not that motivated.

For now I will address two issues you posed to me with questions:

Posted by Killa4luv:


Also, I am here arguing with someone about the influence that a black man has on black kids, and what the black community ought to do, and when I want to know if he is white or not-black that seems inappropriate to you? If so I have 2 questions:
1. Should the fact that I was a black kid, have black kids, live in a black neighborhood, have taught black kids for 10 years, and wrote my thesis about black kids, make my thoughts on black children a little more relevant than someone without such knowledge? I mean does that matter at all in evaluating my opinion on the topic?
2. How does an average white man come to understand in a meaningful way, who or what influences black kids? In other words, what is X non-black person basing their view of the black community on? Experience, academics, media? What? I think these are valid questions.

Well we don't know the background or experience with blacks of the person you were in conversation with, so why come at it with the assumption it's too little or irrelevant, and that he should therefore "trust you on it"? Even if he isn't black himself he might have black relatives, friends, work associates, he might live or work in black communities, or maybe his intuition is just pretty good in such matters.

Furthermore, you, who've gone to great lengths to establish your deep rooted blackness tell me:

"I know where white people are coming from on this."

Why, were you white when you wrote that?

I'm jesting here to make a point which is that NEITHER of you are qualified to speak for an entire race of children, yet you feel entitled to do so for black children while attempting to tune out another's reasonable speculation that a HOF PG would have some degree of influence among kids. Even if they're unaware of Isiah, their teachers and parents probably are not, and such is how much opinion is disseminated.

Furthermore, if someone approached you in similarly and seriously told you that because you speak of yourself as black you can have no idea "where white people are coming from on this," or any other issue involving whites, I'd consider it disrespectful and blustering. I think your humanness, worldliness, intelligence and intuition are sufficient to carry you through this and most other conversations, and I hold code in equal regard... even IF he less than black.

Posted by Killa4luv:


But, if you and others are truly concerned about double standards in our society, why not approach some things that sysematicallty harm millions of people instead of a high profile case about 1 woman, whose claims have not even been verified yet? Isnt systematic abuse more important than this one case?

For example:

How many Americans do you figure have even heard, for example, that black youth arrested for drug possession for the first time are incarcerated at a rate that is forty-eight times greater than the rate for white youth, even when all other factors surrounding the crime are identical (4)?

How many have heard that persons with "white sounding names," according to a massive national study, are fifty percent more likely to be called back for a job interview than those with "black sounding" names, even when all other credentials are the same (5)?

How many know that white men with a criminal record are slightly more likely to be called back for a job interview than black men without one, even when the men are equally qualified, and present themselves to potential employers in an identical fashion (6)?

How many have heard that according to the Justice Department, Black and Latino males are three times more likely than white males to have their vehicles stopped and searched by police, even though white males are over four times more likely to have illegal contraband in our cars on the occasions when we are searched (7)?

How many are aware that black and Latino students are about half as likely as whites to be placed in advanced or honors classes in school, and twice as likely to be placed in remedial classes? Or that even when test scores and prior performance would justify higher placement, students of color are far less likely to be placed in honors classes (8)? Or that students of color are 2-3 times more likely than whites to be suspended or expelled from school, even though rates of serious school rule infractions do not differ to any significant degree between racial groups (9)?

killa, we've been there before. I always encourage that if you want to discuss such topics to present them appropriately and I think you'll find many people receptive and sympathetic towards them. What I find difficult is the way they are trumpeted out every time we discuss the mis-doings of a black person, or as evidence that a white entertainer is surely racist, or that white posters are racist whether they know it or not, etc. They've been used to try to prove so many things so many times that it's hard to keep up with their point. If your point is that life is harder for the average black than the average white then I agree. But that still doesn't prove Imus is racist, or Isiah did not prey on her gender in creating a hostile work environment for Anucha, any more than, say, a white poster sharing with us that they have many white friends who've been mugged or raped by blacks. Your facts and theirs may both be truths, but their context is inappropriate, if not somewhat manipulative, I'm sorry to say.

I take it your point is that if any of us really wanted justice we'd tackle these larger issues routinely, as I take it you try to do. There's certainly some validity to that, but we need to maintain digestible portions or things become unwieldy. For instance, I could throw the same charge at you and say if you really cared about justice you'd defend women, gays, immigrants, Jews, Arabs, etc, with equal vigor as you do blacks, and since you don't you're a fraud. However, I trust you would if you could, but you know it would be cumbersome to do so at every occasion, an thus it's better to stick to the topic at hand. I'd like to believe you'd extend the same trust to a white.

I don't mean to sidestep or any other issues you've raised, but as I said, I found their presentation a bit too dense at the moment. If you feel they are worth discussing I invite you to present them again.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

If Isiah Thomas was winning as much as Bill Belichick how many people would want him fired over his so called racist or sexist comments. How many media articles would come out making Isiah the victim & Miss Saunders as the bad person. Not that Isiah is a victim, but thats just the reality. If Isiah won like that he wouldn't be such an easy target to go after. As someone who wins like that would build up many many supporters. But Isiah hasn't been successful in terms of wins in NY so he is an easy targer to pile up on. Things like this case are allways seem a lot worse when you aren't successful, and allways not as bad when you are.

The reality of this world is that there is and will allways be racism, sexism, racial profiling, sterotyping. Though it isn't bad as it once was, but no way did it dissappear.

Do you believe everything would be the same if Saunders was white? Or if Isiah was white? Or if both of them were white?

That said going back to the top. I don't feel this case is about racism or sexism. It doesn't seem like Isiah goes around calling all black women bitches (Or maybe he does). And Its not like he states general statments about black women or women in general being bitches. He seemed to just not like Saunders, and called her a bitch. Though its still debatable if he really did.

I don't really want to comment to much on this subject because nobody outside of Saunders & Isiah, will know the whole truth. But nothing in this case makes me believe that Saunders should get 10mil or that Isiah Thomas should be fired. Though it would be understandable if Isiah got fired because of the lack of wins when compared with the amount of money he has spent. Plus the circus atmosphere which I agree needs to go.

Funny but I don't remember Imus getting cut slack for his massive philanthropic efforts to help children with cancer, amongst other things.

I guess winning basketball games is more important to some people.

Indeed.

Funny but I don't remember Imus getting cut slack for his massive philanthropic efforts to help children with cancer, amongst other things.

I guess winning basketball games is more important to some people.

Indeed.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

If Isiah Thomas was winning as much as Bill Belichick how many people would want him fired over his so called racist or sexist comments. How many media articles would come out making Isiah the victim & Miss Saunders as the bad person. Not that Isiah is a victim, but thats just the reality. If Isiah won like that he wouldn't be such an easy target to go after. As someone who wins like that would build up many many supporters. But Isiah hasn't been successful in terms of wins in NY so he is an easy targer to pile up on. Things like this case are allways seem a lot worse when you aren't successful, and allways not as bad when you are.

The reality of this world is that there is and will allways be racism, sexism, racial profiling, sterotyping. Though it isn't bad as it once was, but no way did it dissappear.

Do you believe everything would be the same if Saunders was white? Or if Isiah was white? Or if both of them were white?

That said going back to the top. I don't feel this case is about racism or sexism. It doesn't seem like Isiah goes around calling all black women bitches (Or maybe he does). And Its not like he states general statments about black women or women in general being bitches. He seemed to just not like Saunders, and called her a bitch. Though its still debatable if he really did.

I don't really want to comment to much on this subject because nobody outside of Saunders & Isiah, will know the whole truth. But nothing in this case makes me believe that Saunders should get 10mil or that Isiah Thomas should be fired. Though it would be understandable if Isiah got fired because of the lack of wins when compared with the amount of money he has spent. Plus the circus atmosphere which I agree needs to go.

Funny but I don't remember Imus getting cut slack for his massive philanthropic efforts to help children with cancer, amongst other things.

I guess winning basketball games is more important to some people.

Indeed.

Your reaching or spinning, either or.

Lets put Imus in this situation. If he was the GM of a sports franchise. Won 3 championships in the last 4. Was a contender for the last 8. His team was a serious contender that season. He was invited to a talk show radio. Was asked an off topic question about Rutgers womens basketball. He then says the nappy headed hoe's comment. You are the fan of that sports franchise that he has been so successful with. Do you trully believe that his boss would fire him?? Would you want him fired for his comment even though he has made your team champions?? What do you believe the backlash would be??

Funny but I don't remember Imus getting cut slack for his massive philanthropic efforts to help children with cancer, amongst other things.

I guess winning basketball games is more important to some people.

Indeed.

Make sure you mention that next time you bash Marbury.

This is a fun game

Let's say Anooka was Jessica Alba, Jennifer Biel, or Selma Hayek don't you think more people would be believing the woman's side.

My apologies if such example was already used.

Posted by Bippity10:

Every human on the planet has different ideas and beliefs based on their background and personal experience. The more blacks that are born into financially secure and well to do households in ethnically mixed neighborhoods, the less they will think like some of us about racial issues. The more blacks acheive the more diversity of thought will abound. The idea that people think a certain way because they are black or white is out and out false.