Posted by kam77:

Posted by joec32033:

I hope Isiah doesn't ever wanna coach in college.....

Seriously, I think that something that is being overlooked is the HUGE impact this is going to have in the future. Think of it this way. Isiah has just effectively for the first time ever used college basketball as a veritable minor leagues system where you can get a player mid-season and at the same time may have had a serious impact on future drafts.

Think of this. How many kids now are just going to declare for the draft to just gain the Free Agent status, whether they are good enough to go there or not?? How many kids do you think see this as a way to have the best of both worlds? Declare for the draft-but don't hire an agent, now you have the best of both worlds. You can return to school and possibly even leave mid season if an NBA team feels it needs/wants you.

Plus you have no "rookie" salary cap that limits you in the draft. If a team wants they can sign you to whatever they want as long as they have the room.

It was a very slick move by Isiah and I loved it. Now looking at the possbile consequences of this are a little unsettling.

Its the NCAA that has their act to clean up. They could close the loophole that allows a player to return to school after declaring for the draft.

And what about players that declare then pull back? I'm just trying to look at it objectively. The way I look at it is the NBA has to prohibit the signings of undrafted or make a rule stating you can not play in the NBA and in college within a span of X months.

The NCAA would never be allowed to make a rule like that because it is unconstitutional. Some player will challenge it. It's just like how the NFL's rule of 3 years in college is unconstitutional. Eventually someone not as crazy as Maurice Clarett is going to challenge it and win.

If the player has no contact with an agent and is not affiliated with an NBA team, how can they justify not letting him come back? I know it is a private "business" deal, but still. And how many kids will college loose when they say, you can't even weigh your options. Kids will ditching college for the NBDL in droves.

I wish I knew at what point players become FA. Is it just when you declare then go undrafted? Is it if you play for any professional league? WHat is the difference between the players in the college and in Europe where half the time they are considered FA's(remember that Jewish PG the Knicks chased about 8 years ago? I can't remember his name and it wasn't Milos, it was someone else.

*After research it was in 1998, and it was Oded Katash (http://www.jewishsports.com/profiles/katash.htm).

There are alot more issues to be worked out than just the NCAA.

Practically speaking, I'm not sure this loophole is all that big a deal. Think about it-- to take advantage of the loophole, you have to go undrafted. So the only guys who would be able to take advantage of this would have to be so unappealing for whatever reason that no NBA team would snatch them up right away at the first chance. That already rules out the top tier or two of college players from taking advantage of this.

But that's not even the whole story. You also have to be good enough at some later point in time that an NBA team would actually want to have you.

So in sum, to take advantage of this loophole, you must be bad enough at time 1 to go undrafted, but good enough at time 2 to get yourself a decent NBA contract. The set of players who meet both of those criteria, I think, is relatively small.

Of course, if you really had your eye on this as a college bball player, you could deliberately tank your first season, go undrafted, and then bring it for years 2 and beyond. But frankly that's a pretty big risk as well. You risk your college coach souring on you and never giving you another break, or you risk NBA officials doubting your intentions.

Basically, to get someting out of this rule, you need to be not-so-great when you start off, and pretty damn lucky after that. I don't see a ton of players going down that path given the risks and uncertainties, especially since the relative payoff to just going the normal route isn't all that huge. For instance, I'm pretty sure that you are not obligated to take the maximum contract available to you as a draft pick-- isn't it possible for a player to sign only a two year deal or something if he really wants to hit the free agent market right away?

Posted by tomverve:

Practically speaking, I'm not sure this loophole is all that big a deal. Think about it-- to take advantage of the loophole, you have to go undrafted. So the only guys who would be able to take advantage of this would have to be so unappealing for whatever reason that no NBA team would snatch them up right away at the first chance. That already rules out the top tier or two of college players from taking advantage of this.

But that's not even the whole story. You also have to be good enough at some later point in time that an NBA team would actually want to have you.

So in sum, to take advantage of this loophole, you must be bad enough at time 1 to go undrafted, but good enough at time 2 to get yourself a decent NBA contract. The set of players who meet both of those criteria, I think, is relatively small.

Of course, if you really had your eye on this as a college bball player, you could deliberately tank your first season, go undrafted, and then bring it for years 2 and beyond. But frankly that's a pretty big risk as well. You risk your college coach souring on you and never giving you another break, or you risk NBA officials doubting your intentions.

Basically, to get someting out of this rule, you need to be not-so-great when you start off, and pretty damn lucky after that. I don't see a ton of players going down that path given the risks and uncertainties, especially since the relative payoff to just going the normal route isn't all that huge. For instance, I'm pretty sure that you are not obligated to take the maximum contract available to you as a draft pick-- isn't it possible for a player to sign only a two year deal or something if he really wants to hit the free agent market right away?

couple of points -

1) if so many players start to declare - lets say 100 and STAY in the draft - and DONT hire an agent - some really good players will slip through the cracks since there are only 60 draft spots. those 40+ (not accounting for seniors and euros/intls) who dont get drafted, can return to college and get better over the next two / three years. They can always transfer and red-shirt a season as well.

2) player in the first round HAS TO sign a set contract pay scale - second rounders do not.

thanks!

03-26-2007 1:30 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote

quote:Originally posted by tomverve:

Practically speaking, I'm not sure this loophole is all that big a deal. Think about it-- to take advantage of the loophole, you have to go undrafted. So the only guys who would be able to take advantage of this would have to be so unappealing for whatever reason that no NBA team would snatch them up right away at the first chance. That already rules out the top tier or two of college players from taking advantage of this.

But that's not even the whole story. You also have to be good enough at some later point in time that an NBA team would actually want to have you.

So in sum, to take advantage of this loophole, you must be bad enough at time 1 to go undrafted, but good enough at time 2 to get yourself a decent NBA contract. The set of players who meet both of those criteria, I think, is relatively small.

Of course, if you really had your eye on this as a college bball player, you could deliberately tank your first season, go undrafted, and then bring it for years 2 and beyond. But frankly that's a pretty big risk as well. You risk your college coach souring on you and never giving you another break, or you risk NBA officials doubting your intentions.

Basically, to get someting out of this rule, you need to be not-so-great when you start off, and pretty damn lucky after that. I don't see a ton of players going down that path given the risks and uncertainties, especially since the relative payoff to just going the normal route isn't all that huge. For instance, I'm pretty sure that you are not obligated to take the maximum contract available to you as a draft pick-- isn't it possible for a player to sign only a two year deal or something if he really wants to hit the free agent market right away?


couple of points -

1) if so many players start to declare - lets say 100 and STAY in the draft - and DONT hire an agent - some really good players will slip through the cracks since there are only 60 draft spots. those 40+ (not accounting for seniors and euros/intls) who dont get drafted, can return to college and get better over the next two / three years. They can always transfer and red-shirt a season as well.

They are people. Not ants. They don't cooperate that way. Thats ridiculous.

[Edited by - kam77 on 03-26-2007 1:37 PM]

I guess Jackie Butler could have gone this route, but he hired an agent.