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fishmike
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10/19/2006  10:42 AM
I'm finding it hard to support Isiah
supporting Isiah to me is like supporting Bush.

I'm American, and I'm a realist but I love this country. I cant say I want Bush to fail because thats bad news for America. I dont want more dead soldiers, I dont want my middle class lifestyle to go further south while I watch pairs of $350,000 homes torn down around me and a singe $1,500,000 home built in its place, while my taxes skyrocket because the "average" property value in the town just went up 30%.
But my god do I want him out of office...

Same thing with Isiah. I want the Knicks to do well, but any success means more Isiah, which I'm convinced is not good for the long term of this franchise. The sooned this guy is gone the faster the cleanup can begin, or less damage be done at least.

We are one deadline deal away from setting this franchise back another 3 years
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TMS
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10/19/2006  10:45 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Isiah is as classless as it gets. The Knicks organization should be embarassed by his statements. A simple 'looks like the critics were mistaken' type of statement would have sufficed.

i don't argue w/u there... Isiah has not shown a tendency to pick his battles well at all, but the overall point he's addressing on the Balkman pick itself is fair imo... the moronic side comments about Anthony & being a "so-called former Knick" or whatever are just silly & uncalled for.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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10/19/2006  10:46 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:

not its not, but since you put exact in caps it must be true.

Once again the point in this is a bit lost. People arent down on Balkman as a player or a guy that can help up. Plenty of solid guys have gone undrafted and become impact players.

The point is Isiah passed on lottery talent which at the very worst could have been used as a chip later to take a player that wasnt on anyone's board or radar for that matter


fish, if an undrafted guy like Ben Wallace were picked in the 1st round over legitimate lottery talent, i'm sure no one would have a problem with it now... but back then you might have heard some of the same hemming & hawing about it for sure... maybe we should see how Balkman pans out before we start complaining that he was taken too high? i think that's the fairest way to judge any pick or trade, regardless if it's Isiah making it or someone else... being upset that the player you may have wanted (not you specifically) wasn't picked is fine, but to say that Balkman wasn't worthy of being picked that high is presumptuous & speculative at best... no one can say for sure 1 way or the other until we see how these guys' talents translate in the real NBA on their respective teams.


[Edited by - TMS on 10-19-2006 09:39 AM]
again... this has nothing to do with Balkman, it has everything to do with getting best value for what we have. If you can get Balkman at 30, or sign him as a FA (remember he wasnt even in the top 300 NBA draft guide) it lets you use the 20 pick for something else.

Just because your hungry doesnt justify spending 50 bucks on a cheeseburger. Sure its juice, its tastes good as hell, and it satisfies your hunger. But is it a good use of your assets?

sometimes a few dollar menu cheeseburgers can be more satisfying than a $100 meal at some fancy restaurant.

[Edited by - TMS on 10-19-2006 10:47 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Silverfuel
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10/19/2006  10:52 AM
perfect analogy fishmike. I cannot trust Isiah but I have to root for him cause I want the Knicks to do well. Its annoying to me that I often find myself defending Isiah just because he holds the reins. God, I really hope he does a good job this year. PLEASE GOD! I cannot take another crappy season.
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fishmike
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10/19/2006  11:00 AM
it would be rough Silver... specially with the Bulls pick coming back and them poised to win at least 50 games

That Curry trade shaped the face of their team for the next 5 years.. Ben Wallce and a couple of blue chip young guys like Ty Thomas and whoever they get this year. Brutal... simply brutal
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Swishfm3
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10/19/2006  11:11 AM
So what some of you guys are saying is that it's ok for G.Anthony to do his job and criticize our team but it's not ok for I.Thomas (like it or not, the KNICKS coach) to defend out team and players from those criticizing us?

I'm really getting sick and tired of these bum asz former players turned "expert" analysts and sports writers that have never played organized sports in their life, always talking shiit.
Bippity10
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10/19/2006  11:26 AM
swishfm: It's great to defend your players. Just do it in a way that a "president" does it, not a highschool kid.

Number 2: G.Anthony is an analyst that is his job. Isiah's job is to worry about how to improve our team not getting into newspaper battles with other people. Most of us had enough of that last year.
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BasketballJones
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10/19/2006  11:29 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

isiah should've just let the comments go. but he's got too much of an ego and pride. some like that bravado. i don't. as a front office exec, he threatened to beat up bill simmons on the radio. this is a PRESIDENT of bball operations. act like it.
Interesting how I heard no such cries for professionalism from our very unprofessional but highly regarded coach of last year.

But I do tend to agree with you that threatening to beat up someone is unprofessional.

You heard n such cries for professionalism????? What planet were you on? Marbs and LB have been getting blasted for almost a year now. Are you serious?

And what does that have to do with the current situation?

LB was criticized. I'm pretty sure Killa himself critized him. But he may be technically right that no one every specifically referred to LB's professionalism.

https:// It's not so hard.
Allanfan20
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10/19/2006  11:33 AM
True Knicks:

Willis, Walt, Earl, Barnett, Dave D, King, Ewing, Oakley, Trent Tucker, Rory Sparrow (At least I guess???) Derek Harper, Anthony Masion, Allan Houston, Latrell Sprewell, Charlie Ward.

All guys who have helped the Knicks win in some way shape or form. Now who in the hell does Isiah think he is to come up here and talk about "True Knicks." when he didn't play for us, PLUS has done nothing but lose for us as a GM and made us worse and has gotton pretty much everyone to hate him. What an embarrassment. It's so impossible to root for the guy.
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Bippity10
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10/19/2006  11:38 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

isiah should've just let the comments go. but he's got too much of an ego and pride. some like that bravado. i don't. as a front office exec, he threatened to beat up bill simmons on the radio. this is a PRESIDENT of bball operations. act like it.
Interesting how I heard no such cries for professionalism from our very unprofessional but highly regarded coach of last year.

But I do tend to agree with you that threatening to beat up someone is unprofessional.

You heard n such cries for professionalism????? What planet were you on? Marbs and LB have been getting blasted for almost a year now. Are you serious?

And what does that have to do with the current situation?

LB was criticized. I'm pretty sure Killa himself critized him. But he may be technically right that no one every specifically referred to LB's professionalism.

Maybe it was because most skipped rigth over the the description "unprofessional" and went straight to calling him the "anti-christ"
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BRIGGS
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10/19/2006  11:41 AM
that is right. this has nothing to do with who we should or should not have drafted--this was about a guy[ga] who was fed up[like im sure many other knicks not on payroll along with millions of fans] with the operations of the team and voiced his opinion on the matter. doesn't he have a right to do so? Shouldnt isiah take it like a man and look forward? Instead the first TINY sign of prosperity, he's showing an arrogant self-indulgence that personifies his own character.

ps I like how things get misconstrued. In some ways I think Magic may have been the best basketball player of all time--and along with shaq, certainly the most unique kind of ballplayer that i have watched. Saying that I believe Marucs Williams has the best passing abilities/instincts that I have seen since Magic and J Kidd is a LONG way away from being the player either of them were. I would have taken Marcus with pick 2, but that's just me.
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nixluva
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10/19/2006  11:42 AM
Posted by fishmike:

it would be rough Silver... specially with the Bulls pick coming back and them poised to win at least 50 games

That Curry trade shaped the face of their team for the next 5 years.. Ben Wallce and a couple of blue chip young guys like Ty Thomas and whoever they get this year. Brutal... simply brutal

Who's to say that WE won't win 50 games and compete with the Bulls over the next 5 years. Until the season plays out we don't really know how successful the Bulls will be. Like a lot of teams they look great on paper.

Isiah is doing what he has to do, to let his team know that he's got there back. This team will play HARD for him and that's what we want. Guys will listen to him much more than they would a guy who doesn't show that he's behind them. When he yells at them in the back of there minds they'll say "he really cares about us and wants us to succeed". That's much different from how they might take yelling from someone who has never shown they care about them. Like him or not, Isiah knows what he's doing.
TMS
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10/19/2006  11:49 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

True Knicks:

Willis, Walt, Earl, Barnett, Dave D, King, Ewing, Oakley, Trent Tucker, Rory Sparrow (At least I guess???) Derek Harper, Anthony Masion, Allan Houston, Latrell Sprewell, Charlie Ward.

All guys who have helped the Knicks win in some way shape or form. Now who in the hell does Isiah think he is to come up here and talk about "True Knicks." when he didn't play for us, PLUS has done nothing but lose for us as a GM and made us worse and has gotton pretty much everyone to hate him. What an embarrassment. It's so impossible to root for the guy.

i think u'r misconstruing Isiah's comments here... he never said anything about Greg Anthony not being a "true knick"... the comment was as follows:
"This so-called former Knick, on draft night with millions of people watching, had the audacity to take me to task on a player that I'm pretty sure he had never seen before in his life," Thomas said. "But he stands on national television and talks about a kid he has absolutely no idea about. I'm just glad that all of New York doesn't think like Greg Anthony."

"Greg Anthony should never ever be in a position to question myself on anything about basketball," Thomas said. "I do remember the kind of player he was. I'll leave it at that."

"This is between Greg and I," Thomas said in a lengthy diatribe about Anthony to the media after the Knicks practice. "The things he said on draft night ... after all the good solid work we had done in the draft ... for him to take that position he took ... I thought he was way way way out of bounds."

"I just thought he was very unfair to the Knicks organization," Thomas said. "It would be different had he not worn a Knick uniform. But for a guy who claims to have been a Knick, to treat the Knicks the way he treated us that night ... I know a Piston would never do that. A Celtic would never do that. A Laker would never do that. It wouldn't happen. It just goes to show you what we're dealing with."

it's more an assault on Anthony's character & the fact that in Isiah's opinion, he had made unfair comments & assumptions about his former team... i don't think it's Isiah saying that Greg Anthony was never a true Knick or anything to that effect.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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10/19/2006  11:49 AM
Isiah is an awful person a terrible GM and clueless; and he benifits from other looking at his playing career instead of what he has accomplished since, which is nothing.

Anthony was right to question the pick as was everyone, the guy was a second round talent, and we had a chance to get lottery talents in Marcus Williams and Rondo both of whom look like floor leaders who can lead a team......

You draft the best player out there, Isiah has three terrible pgs on the team who are out for their own shots you change the culture by being unselfish and that starts with your pg, and you don't allow a division rival to fill a need which they sorely need in NJ that is what being a GM is all about....

Zeke's comments about A-Rod and Marbury with disgusting, Stephon has not established himself as an elite player in this league there are 30 guys you would rather have maybe close to 7 at his position, AROD has won two MVPs and is an All-star every year......

Losers attack when they shoudln't, lets talk about Brown all summer long, lets be mr friendly, but the fact remains ZEKE overpaid for every free agent that he has brought in, he has made horrific trades, failed to lottery protect a pick, went through 4 coaches while disrespecting each one of them, has made a joke out of the franchise, and has a sexual assault mess ahead of him and not to mention we are no longer on tv, this piece of **** should keep his mouth shut
nixluva
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10/19/2006  12:00 PM
Posted by MS:

Isiah is an awful person a terrible GM and clueless; and he benifits from other looking at his playing career instead of what he has accomplished since, which is nothing.

Anthony was right to question the pick as was everyone, the guy was a second round talent, and we had a chance to get lottery talents in Marcus Williams and Rondo both of whom look like floor leaders who can lead a team......

You draft the best player out there, Isiah has three terrible pgs on the team who are out for their own shots you change the culture by being unselfish and that starts with your pg, and you don't allow a division rival to fill a need which they sorely need in NJ that is what being a GM is all about....

I disagree. You don't just draft the best player available, not if you have a specific need and the best player available would be the 5th PG on your team. A guy who is basically the same size as the other small guards you have. Isiah did what he felt was best for the TEAM to succeed. Adding another talented PG, wouldn't accomplish anything. As far as NJ taking Williams, so what. You can't be concerned with who other teams draft. As long as you are building your team in the right way, that's all you need be concerned with.

M. Williams is a fine player and i'd love to switch him out for Francis, but the thing is that wouldn't happen. We lack DEFENSE, not offense. Isiah taking two guys who can give us defense and hustle and more flexibility made much more sense for this team and the way he wants to play.
wsdm
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10/19/2006  12:03 PM
I basically agree with Bip here. I'd have no problem with Isiah defending the pick. I wouldn't even mind if he mentioned Greg Anthony, saying something like "Renaldo's gonna prove all the critics, particularly Greg Anthony, wrong." But Isiah went WAAAAAY overboard here making this personal. He looks like an immature, narcissistic teenager when he insults Anthony's basketball abilities.
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wsdm
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10/19/2006  12:04 PM
Posted by fishmike:
I'm finding it hard to support Isiah
supporting Isiah to me is like supporting Bush.
I wouldn't go that far, but I hear ya!
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
Allanfan20
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10/19/2006  12:06 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

True Knicks:

Willis, Walt, Earl, Barnett, Dave D, King, Ewing, Oakley, Trent Tucker, Rory Sparrow (At least I guess???) Derek Harper, Anthony Masion, Allan Houston, Latrell Sprewell, Charlie Ward.

All guys who have helped the Knicks win in some way shape or form. Now who in the hell does Isiah think he is to come up here and talk about "True Knicks." when he didn't play for us, PLUS has done nothing but lose for us as a GM and made us worse and has gotton pretty much everyone to hate him. What an embarrassment. It's so impossible to root for the guy.

i think u'r misconstruing Isiah's comments here... he never said anything about Greg Anthony not being a "true knick"... the comment was as follows:
"This so-called former Knick, on draft night with millions of people watching, had the audacity to take me to task on a player that I'm pretty sure he had never seen before in his life," Thomas said. "But he stands on national television and talks about a kid he has absolutely no idea about. I'm just glad that all of New York doesn't think like Greg Anthony."

"Greg Anthony should never ever be in a position to question myself on anything about basketball," Thomas said. "I do remember the kind of player he was. I'll leave it at that."

"This is between Greg and I," Thomas said in a lengthy diatribe about Anthony to the media after the Knicks practice. "The things he said on draft night ... after all the good solid work we had done in the draft ... for him to take that position he took ... I thought he was way way way out of bounds."

"I just thought he was very unfair to the Knicks organization," Thomas said. "It would be different had he not worn a Knick uniform. But for a guy who claims to have been a Knick, to treat the Knicks the way he treated us that night ... I know a Piston would never do that. A Celtic would never do that. A Laker would never do that. It wouldn't happen. It just goes to show you what we're dealing with."

it's more an assault on Anthony's character & the fact that in Isiah's opinion, he had made unfair comments & assumptions about his former team... i don't think it's Isiah saying that Greg Anthony was never a true Knick or anything to that effect.

Maybe the true Knick part was wrong, but how come he attacked Greg Anthony? Why not Charlie Ward (For bashing Steph), or Oakley (For basically calling his team a bunch of sissies) or Ewing (Again, for bashing Steph.) and I can bet you maybe a little bit amount of money that Allan just might be saying a couple of things on ESPN. Heck, Walt Frazier bashed Marbury right to his face during that Summer league game. Isn't that right? Don't forget Kurt Thomas and even Tim Thomas (Even though I don't even consider Tim to be a Knick). Why isn't IT killing those guys. It's not just Greg Anthony. Former Knicks left and right know perfectly well what Isiah has done to this organization and they are willing to speak.
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SugarRayRichardson
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10/19/2006  12:06 PM
Posted by wsdm:

I basically agree with Bip here. I'd have no problem with Isiah defending the pick. I wouldn't even mind if he mentioned Greg Anthony, saying something like "Renaldo's gonna prove all the critics, particularly Greg Anthony, wrong." But Isiah went WAAAAAY overboard here making this personal. He looks like an immature, narcissistic teenager when he insults Anthony's basketball abilities.

exactly! well said. can you imagine Red Holzman acting this low?
I LOVED how Curry just exploded in the 4th, speaking as a fan of the Raptors, Curry looked well, scary I think is the word. Or Shaq-like Curry: 19.1ppg-7.3rpg-58%fg
fishmike
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10/19/2006  12:08 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by fishmike:

it would be rough Silver... specially with the Bulls pick coming back and them poised to win at least 50 games

That Curry trade shaped the face of their team for the next 5 years.. Ben Wallce and a couple of blue chip young guys like Ty Thomas and whoever they get this year. Brutal... simply brutal

Who's to say that WE won't win 50 games and compete with the Bulls over the next 5 years. Until the season plays out we don't really know how successful the Bulls will be. Like a lot of teams they look great on paper.

Isiah is doing what he has to do, to let his team know that he's got there back. This team will play HARD for him and that's what we want. Guys will listen to him much more than they would a guy who doesn't show that he's behind them. When he yells at them in the back of there minds they'll say "he really cares about us and wants us to succeed". That's much different from how they might take yelling from someone who has never shown they care about them. Like him or not, Isiah knows what he's doing.
find someone that says we win 50 games next year. Even the koolaid sluggers arent that nuts.
Like him or not, Isiah knows what he's doing.
Then why did we win 26 games last year? Why did he release Mo Taylor? Why is Isiah the 5th coach in 3 years? Whick Knicks are making the all star game this year? Which Knick is regarded around the league as a superstar? Why do we have the highest payroll and lowest win total, with no all stars, no playoffs? Oh yea... Larry and Layden. Sometime around 2010 maybe those excuses will go away.

He's done a terrible job
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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