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Eddy Curry is the EXACT SAME player as he was last year
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Elite
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10/15/2006  9:35 PM
having players who shoot the 3 is one thing for an assist... But fumbling all over your self when your double teamed and turning the ball over is another... Look i want eddy to succeed as much as anybody.. but he has a LOT to proove!
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bigbeast
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10/15/2006  9:37 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Well it does help when you have players that are actually profecient at the 3point shot. That 2000-2001 team had Glen Rice, Allan Houston and Charlie Ward if memory serves me correctly.

Now we have the former 3-point champ QRich slinging basketballs like darts up aganist the backboard as if for target practice
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crzymdups
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10/15/2006  9:43 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Well it does help when you have players that are actually profecient at the 3point shot. That 2000-2001 team had Glen Rice, Allan Houston and Charlie Ward if memory serves me correctly.

Crawford, Nate (40% 3pt), Jalen (45% 3pt), Francis can all shoot the 3. Not even mentioning QRich who was injured last season and obv couldn't shoot. heck, even Frye showed he has that range.

it's just not a tool larry brown believes in using, because he doesn't really do offense well.
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nyk4ever
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10/15/2006  9:55 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Well it does help when you have players that are actually profecient at the 3point shot. That 2000-2001 team had Glen Rice, Allan Houston and Charlie Ward if memory serves me correctly.

Crawford, Nate (40% 3pt), Jalen (45% 3pt), Francis can all shoot the 3. Not even mentioning QRich who was injured last season and obv couldn't shoot. heck, even Frye showed he has that range.

it's just not a tool larry brown believes in using, because he doesn't really do offense well.

Cmon Crzy. There isn't one headcoach out there that is afraid of any of those guys shooting the 3ball. When Houston and Rice are behind that arc, you know you better get a hand in their face or it's going in.
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crzymdups
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10/15/2006  9:59 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Well it does help when you have players that are actually profecient at the 3point shot. That 2000-2001 team had Glen Rice, Allan Houston and Charlie Ward if memory serves me correctly.

Crawford, Nate (40% 3pt), Jalen (45% 3pt), Francis can all shoot the 3. Not even mentioning QRich who was injured last season and obv couldn't shoot. heck, even Frye showed he has that range.

it's just not a tool larry brown believes in using, because he doesn't really do offense well.

Cmon Crzy. There isn't one headcoach out there that is afraid of any of those guys shooting the 3ball. When Houston and Rice are behind that arc, you know you better get a hand in their face or it's going in.

Glen Rice was horrible in NY. Crawford led the NBA in game winners last year, many of them from 15-20 ft or more. Nate was in the top 5 for 3pt% for most of the year. Francis, Marbury, Jalen are all experienced shooters who I'd rather have shooting than Charlie Ward. Look at all Brown's teams - they historically take about 10 3pters a game, while the rest of the league shoots between 15-20. When you shoot 33% on 3s, it's the same as shooting 50% on 2s.

I'll put it to you this way - we were outscored by 9points on average at the 3pt line. our average loss margain was 7pts.

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crzymdups
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10/15/2006  10:03 PM
also, we have two young post players who we need to space the floor for - how do you do that? long-range shooting. how do you beat a zone? long-range shooting. we have shooters, Brown didn't allow them to shoot on a regular basis. I'm not saying it's a solution to all our woes, but most teams, to stay competitive, need to shoot the 3. it's part of the game.
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nyk4ever
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10/15/2006  10:07 PM
Posted by crzymdups:


Glen Rice was horrible in NY. Crawford led the NBA in game winners last year, many of them from 15-20 ft or more. Nate was in the top 5 for 3pt% for most of the year. Francis, Marbury, Jalen are all experienced shooters who I'd rather have shooting than Charlie Ward. Look at all Brown's teams - they historically take about 10 3pters a game, while the rest of the league shoots between 15-20. When you shoot 33% on 3s, it's the same as shooting 50% on 2s.

I'll put it to you this way - we were outscored by 9points on average at the 3pt line. our average loss margain was 7pts.

Rice wasn't that bad in his year with the Knicks, he shot 39% from 3. Fine, I'll give you Crawford is a feared shooter. I'm not so sure how much that fact about Browns teams not shooting 3's means. His teams are always in the playoffs so, obviously that tactic was working for him.
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newyorknewyork
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10/15/2006  10:57 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Curry shouldn't be allowed to drive the basketball like he deos. Isiah should stop that. He should only be allowed to shoot jump hooks if he gets good enough position. And he should work on shooting a 10-12 ft jumper when he faces up rather than tring to take his man off the dribble. Him being able to knock down that jumper will force his defender to try and press up and thats when driving will become alot easier.

Curry is also kind of a black hole. I don't think he is skilled enough though to back down a defender draw a double and kick it out. He needs to get the ball when the defense as already been broken down rather being the guy that breaks down the defense. I wish he was good enough to draw a double and kick out. That would be big. But I don't see him being that type of player. I see him as a player that should dominate the offenisve glass, and get a lot of pts off of his guards penititration. If he can get the 10-12ft jumper that would make him a consistant 20pt player if he could stay out of foul trouble.


I have watched Shaq play since his freshman yr at LSU. I've never seen Shaq take a jump shot. Curry is 300 lbs, no need for a jumper.

Heres a few things that could help Curry in the post: He needs to develop a righty and lefty baby hook. He needs to learn how to turn over his right shoulder and finish with his left instead of forcing everything with his right which causes him to charge when defenders over play his right hand.
He needs to improve freethrow shooting (I believe Curry was top 4 in the NBA in freethrow attempts) If he can get up to about 75% that would def increase his ppg. And last but not least, I don't remember ever seeing Curry pump fake. Everything he does is power. Pump faking would help his game in the post alot aswell.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 10-15-2006 7:59 PM]

I definately agree with this. Curry is too big to settle for jumpers...give me a baby hook out to about 10 feet for Curry and he will be near unguardable. Not only will he be fouled constantly the hook is a damn near unblockable shot normally. With as much space Curry creates, he would be just unstoppable.

Contrary to popular believe(not jabbing at you beast) I don't hate Curry at all. I just think he is lazy and has so much untapped potential that it should be against the law for him to waste it.

Blueseats
That's a good point about what a jumper could do for him. But Curry clearing half a step for himself before he even knows what to do with his feet is putting the cart before the horse. Curry's best assets are his soft hands and close to the basket power - that puts him 75% of the way toward being a reliable low post threat. All that is missing are post moves toward the basket and footwork -- the things our bigman coach (Aguirre) are known for. He's more likely to get his feet in line before his jumper, and I'd rather see him catch the ball 8 feet out and make one or two good step toward the hoop than catch it 10 feet out and step back.

If there were one thing I'd have him add tomorrow it would be a pass back out of the post - to someone who can shoot, facilitate or finish - with a willingness to repost.

Shaq establishes great position in the post almost every time. And is excellent at backing his man down for either a dunk, jump hook, or passing out of the post.

Curry doesn't establish that good of position. And is not that good at backing his man down. He will either run his man over. Or he will get trapped by a 2nd defender and turn the ball over.

Curry loves to face his man and do like a running jump hook. That seems to be a favorite move or go to move. So if he can knock down a 10-12ft jumper. He will be able to do his go to move more efficient. Im not asking him to live on jumpers. But either he needs to start getting better position without fouling. And better with the ball in his hands. Or he needs to be able to knock down the 10-12ft so his go to move is more deadly. He can still own the offensive paint by offensive rebs and getting the dumpoff from a penitrating teammate.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 10-15-2006 11:03 PM]
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rvhoss
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10/16/2006  7:58 AM
curry is 23 years old.
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fishmike
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10/16/2006  8:31 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:


oh, whoops, you made the same mistake I did - which is ESPN automatically puts it on the 2000-2001 season, back when we had a real coach. under JVG we were 13th, under Larry Brown we were 28th...here...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&sort=3pa&league=nba&season=2006&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0

Well it does help when you have players that are actually profecient at the 3point shot. That 2000-2001 team had Glen Rice, Allan Houston and Charlie Ward if memory serves me correctly.

Crawford, Nate (40% 3pt), Jalen (45% 3pt), Francis can all shoot the 3. Not even mentioning QRich who was injured last season and obv couldn't shoot. heck, even Frye showed he has that range.

it's just not a tool larry brown believes in using, because he doesn't really do offense well.
Neither did Jeff or Pat for that matter. 3's create a lot of long rebounds that opposing guards can immediatly push upcourt and turn into each transition buckets. Coaches that preach defense and especially controlling the glass dont like them for those reasons.

Since we dont have a very strong defensive rebounding team I dont think it matters. It might even help us as a lot of our rebounders are more hustle guys rather than technique and position.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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10/16/2006  9:23 AM
fish, please stop making sense, it's ruining my view of you!
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fishmike
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10/16/2006  9:41 AM
nothing has changed, you hear what you wanna hear

How's Jerome?
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rvhoss
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10/16/2006  9:51 AM
don't you mean read what i want to read?
We now return you to fish' regularly scheduled hatin!
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Elite
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10/27/2006  12:11 PM
Eddy Curry is Averaging 14.8 ppg and 4.8 rebounds in five preseason games...

Pretty Familiar numbers... Remember when he had that one good game that NOBODY EVEN SAW and people were like SEE HES BETTER!

No, hes not. Not yet, he had those games once in a while last year too. He still is not anywhere near consistant and he is still foul prone. He still gets discouraged very easily.. I hope this all changes.. But as of now.. This thread title holds an awful lot of truth.
rvhoss
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10/27/2006  12:14 PM
I'm happy with that Curry. If he was all we had, I'd be freaking out and starting a similar thread a day extolling what I hate about him.

But with Crawford, Frye, Lee, Nate, JJ2 and others there to pick up the slack, I'm not concerned with a 23 year old center ONLY averaging 15/5 (or last year's 16/6).

Have you guys been reading Bip and Fish' postings?

it's not about individual stats, it's about team success.

So I say...who cares. I'll take the same player in a new offense.
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Allanfan20
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10/27/2006  12:21 PM
We keep worrying about the offense. Some of you guys don't even realize that it's the defense that suffers and loses us games!
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Bippity10
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10/27/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I'm happy with that Curry. If he was all we had, I'd be freaking out and starting a similar thread a day extolling what I hate about him.

But with Crawford, Frye, Lee, Nate, JJ2 and others there to pick up the slack, I'm not concerned with a 23 year old center ONLY averaging 15/5 (or last year's 16/6).

Have you guys been reading Bip and Fish' postings?

it's not about individual stats, it's about team success.

So I say...who cares. I'll take the same player in a new offense.

I think you'll find that Bip and Fish are very fair towards the players and the coach's. And if you pay attention you will hear players get credit when they do well and get blasted when they do something stupid. But when fans over-react to every negative post like it's the end of the world they simply dismiss every thing else. I think if we just read and responded to the topic at hand instead of trying to determine who's positive and who's negative we'd be more productive and find out that most of us are on the same page, we just write differently.

Okay now that my pontificating is over. I personally don't think Curry's core weaknesses will ever change. He will be a very tough offensive player as time goes by. Possibly even dominant. He will improve in rebounding but will never be great. His passing will always be poor. His defense will at best be mediocre. That's fine. That's not what hurts us. What hurts us is that we have built a team that kind of relies on him to play good defense, rebound and move the ball out of the double team in order to keep our motion offense flowing. This is where we need our GM/coach to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of our stars and find players that compliment and lessen those weaknesses. Frye is a great compliment offensively. But that means we need a SF that rebounds and plays D. We need perimeter players that can shut down penetration so we don't need to worry as much about shot blocking. We need another person in the frontcourt rotation that will protect Curry physically. Remember Oakley protecting Ewing. We need that compliment. Our GM hasn't done that yet. He has instead assembled a fantasy basketball team in which noone really compliments each other. This is why our 50 win talent has us all hoping that they will be good enough for an 8th seed instead of guaranteed for the second round. Curry needs to improve but the structure and the way we run things are our major problems. Change the culture and you will see guys like Curry shine. I've been saying this for 5 years now, starting to think it's falling on deaf ears.
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Bippity10
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10/27/2006  12:29 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

We keep worrying about the offense. Some of you guys don't even realize that it's the defense that suffers and loses us games!


Yeah, I don't get that either.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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10/27/2006  12:32 PM
I have the same take on Marbs. Marbs is 20 and 8 with no leadership ability. So you need to build a team in which their are veteran leaders that can take the mantle away from Marbs, let him score and let them lead the team. Again somehting we have not doen. We instead prop him up to be the leader even though we won't admit it. Our problems are organizational.
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Elite
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11/22/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by Elite:

Yes i can say this after watching him for 20 minutes of preseason basketball.. Yes I said it.. Crucify me.. go ahead. But this fat bastard has not improved one bit, you can see it. Its so obvious. Sad man.. Very sad..

ANYONE WANT TO DISAGREE WITH ME NOW?!??!



ACtually... I will say this - The one thing he improved was instead of getting 4 offensive fouls a game.. He prolly gets 2 now.

Other than that... SAME EXACT FAT ASS PLAYER

Eddy Curry is the EXACT SAME player as he was last year

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