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Damn....francis cried after the game last night
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holfresh
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4/6/2006  4:13 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Stop holding on and showing loyalty to guys that are stealing money out of the fans hands.

Why should I Bip...You show loyalty to a coach that is stealing money from the fans as well..
AUTOADVERT
Bippity10
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4/6/2006  4:24 PM
Again holfresh: All the guys on this roster. Who has won? LB? Any of the players? Who should be given the benefit of the doubt in a team revolt. A guy that has experienced it before and then turned that turmoil into winning every where he's gone. Or guys that have created so much turmoil that teams have traded them away and then improved their future after they were gone? Is LB stealing our money or is he doing Knick fans a favor by showing us the true nature and character of a team that has fooled you into thinking they were one player or coach away from a title every time they won 35 games?

The sad thing is that this year is the best thing that has happened to us since the 99 playoffs and because you were too busy thinking that LB would turn us into Phoenix east you are having trouble recognizing it.

Knick players quit on LB, themselves, the Knick name and most importantly they told you the paying fan that they don't give a rat's arse about what you think and yet you defend them. They've done it everywhere they've gone. Nobody on this roster has a good track record besides maybe Malik, David and Channing. The rest are lucky that any team still wants them. If any do.
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Bippity10
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4/6/2006  4:26 PM
We finally have a guy that is going to make us change course from the pathetic mediocre losing sht we've been experiencing for the past 7 years and you want to get rid of him and bring someone in who will "maximize our roster". Insanity!!!!!!
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
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4/6/2006  4:49 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Holly,

I think your making too much over the media dissing. JVG used to bitch all the time in the media.

Every game, every pratice Larry is swarmed for quotes. Larry is outspoken, and he is fed freaking up over this season.

I for one think he is really holding back what he thinks of certain players.

This might be the worst knick team in history, and given its payroll, its a huge story. Every day.

DJ (Scoop) is throwing out lots of quotables the last few days to demostrate that there is balance in his quotes.

I also think not all the negative is about Steph.

steph said it was personal. Steph said he should "fight back". Reezy was upset. Craw was upset and improved all year long. Now he understands what he is being asked.

One quote from larry that blows me away, that in his 31 years of coaching, he never had to plead with his players to give effort. That speaks volume about what his happening behind closed doors.

At the same time larry says he must do better and has admitted about the lineups all winter being screwed up. But he never got from a lineup what he wanted!

These guys are paid millions and take all kinds of crap from fans, and from coaches. This is not college, this is the pros. What ever larry said in the press, even if its wrong, should not derail these guys to these levels and reduce their self esteem to the levels we are seeing.

These guys are suppose to be tough, street tough, take crap from screeming fans. They have risen above THOUSANDS of players in the WORLD to be the top one percent that actually makes the NBA. Then they have proven talent to get big contracts, which is not all that common outside the knicks. And a few comments form a coach is going to derail them to this degree?

Even if so, they would then be the biggest Phuching pussies on the planet. If Larrys 3 negative quotes so turned off Marbury with his cool hip hop keep it real street tough cred from tough coney island and screwed him up then WTF do we have here? A little 65 year old jewish coach with a bad blatter just flat out phuched him up!

WussBury!


Man I totally agree with you...these guys have to be more resilient than that and approach their craft in a professional way regardless of what LB does...When I defend these guys, I do not defend their work ethic or what they should be putting out on a nightly basis...They should be doing that just due to respect of the game and repect to the fans...Lets face it, these guys owe alot to the game given their positions in life and what they can do for their collective famalies..Thats being said...In all of Larry's bashing, he could have established some sort of rotation to create cohesion on this team...There is no way this team would play better without a set rotation...Thye needed 8 or 9 guys to really get their games intimately...you have to remember this is a newly constructed team...They never had a shot....Larry never game them a chance to succeed...So now here we are talking about these guys not putting it all out there for Larry or the game...But at what point do we say hey Larry did you do everything you could to make this team win....You have to agree the answer is resounding NO...And for a guy we are paying 10 mil per year that is unacceptable...
You can't defend that....



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 4:51 PM]
holfresh
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4/6/2006  4:52 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

We finally have a guy that is going to make us change course from the pathetic mediocre losing sht we've been experiencing for the past 7 years and you want to get rid of him and bring someone in who will "maximize our roster". Insanity!!!!!!

See above
NYKniCksFan87
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4/6/2006  4:56 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:

brown never said anything illadvised about crawford,q or malik

Not is not true either...Craw was upset when he wsn't in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season...Larry had comments in teh press about that as well...Q1 is new tothe team...so he should have no comments...Malik should not even be in the game at time and he knows that...He should love Brown for the times he gets....By the way I just love how the media plays th Q1 and mailk cares card...You know what, If you care so much show me on the court..Q1 has not played D since January...Malik think he shud be the go to guy in the post.....What is going on here...So we now love the guy who cries in teh media first or kicks the scoreboard..Not the one that carries us on the court..Amazing...



your seriously bugging man, your love for steph is whats your problem its clouding your vision man.....unbelivable how narrow sighted you are, brown obviously is a problem but so is steph, answeer this....why has steph been so stubborn in his career?, why did he leave minnesota when him and KG couldve been a more athletic version of malone and stockton? (dont tell me cause he hated the weather there), why is it that he is never able to get maximum performance out of his teammates??Why is it when his replacement comes in...the team turns it around??...Dont play that he was playing with rookie cards with me...look at what chris paul is doing, he's playing with a team filled with young players who've never experienced the playoffs, but the whole year they were either in the playoff race ot contending for a spot.....marbury who has more talent than paul does couldnt even do that withthis team..all brown asked for was selfish play and defense, but steph couldnt do it even though he couldve been a great defender throughout his career and has shown flashes of being a true playmaker but than reverting to his old ways....i supported steph when he bought in here, hemade me happy as a fan when he made the playoffs his 1st year, but the man says he wants to win badly, but doesnt prove it on the court...
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
holfresh
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4/6/2006  5:19 PM
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:

brown never said anything illadvised about crawford,q or malik

Not is not true either...Craw was upset when he wsn't in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season...Larry had comments in teh press about that as well...Q1 is new tothe team...so he should have no comments...Malik should not even be in the game at time and he knows that...He should love Brown for the times he gets....By the way I just love how the media plays th Q1 and mailk cares card...You know what, If you care so much show me on the court..Q1 has not played D since January...Malik think he shud be the go to guy in the post.....What is going on here...So we now love the guy who cries in teh media first or kicks the scoreboard..Not the one that carries us on the court..Amazing...



your seriously bugging man, your love for steph is whats your problem its clouding your vision man.....unbelivable how narrow sighted you are, brown obviously is a problem but so is steph, answeer this....why has steph been so stubborn in his career?, why did he leave minnesota when him and KG couldve been a more athletic version of malone and stockton? (dont tell me cause he hated the weather there), why is it that he is never able to get maximum performance out of his teammates??Why is it when his replacement comes in...the team turns it around??...Dont play that he was playing with rookie cards with me...look at what chris paul is doing, he's playing with a team filled with young players who've never experienced the playoffs, but the whole year they were either in the playoff race ot contending for a spot.....marbury who has more talent than paul does couldnt even do that withthis team..all brown asked for was selfish play and defense, but steph couldnt do it even though he couldve been a great defender throughout his career and has shown flashes of being a true playmaker but than reverting to his old ways....i supported steph when he bought in here, hemade me happy as a fan when he made the playoffs his 1st year, but the man says he wants to win badly, but doesnt prove it on the court...



I'm not sure that Marbs has more talent than Paul to be honest...Bro you are blinded by Marbs hate...Marbs by far, by far has been the best Knick all year...Why has he not made his teamates better...What can he do with Q1 jump shot...maybe he could have work wtih him in practice to get him to knock it down...Lord knows Marbs has hit him more times for a wide open threes than Whitney has hit her crack pipe in the last month...Maybe he should have gotten Curry in shape faster...Maybe he should have helped Craw handle his demotion to the bench better...I'm not sure what you are getting at, but Marbs can't do it alone....No one can....



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 5:20 PM]
NYKniCksFan87
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4/6/2006  6:35 PM
i dont hate marbs...he was my fave player for so long...iused to catch his game on television all the time when he played in jersey, i rooted for the guy every night, but after seeing the past few years,....it ain healthy man
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
nyk4ever
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4/6/2006  6:40 PM
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:

i dont hate marbs...he was my fave player for so long...iused to catch his game on television all the time when he played in jersey, i rooted for the guy every night, but after seeing the past few years,....it ain healthy man

Ditto. I agree 100% I even backed him earlier this year, until I saw him completely give up and realized this is the same thing that happened at every stop hes had.
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Bonn1997
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4/6/2006  7:58 PM
I agree, but if he's traded (which I hope does happen), I'm still gonna root for him to succeed where ever he ends up.
gr33d
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4/6/2006  11:05 PM
Been reading here for a while and I'd like to offer another view.

Our teams two biggest problems imo have been team defense and turn-overs. While at first glance, turn-overs can be a direct effect of a poor PG. So can not having set rotations where players feel comfortable. And team defense is complete TEAM failure. Watching Stephons man beat him off the dribble kills me, but collectively, we've been awful. And to his defense, he's played a large number of minutes guarding bigger 2's in the post/perimeter. Trading him (while his value is at an all time low) for Minny's spare parts is a scary thought.

The other thing is, if Crawford is so high on Brown's "keeper" list.. Why has he been coming off the bench until now? If the seaon is totally lost, why not start Heavy Paper over Rose? The list of odd happenings go on and on. For such a decorated resume, even our commentators wonder why Curry (at this point) isn't kept on the floor. Learn to play with fouls now, while the season is in shambles.

Where do we honestly start in terms of turning this thing around?
"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
codeunknown
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4/6/2006  11:09 PM
Posted by gr33d:



The other thing is, if Crawford is so high on Brown's "keeper" list.. Why has he been coming off the bench until now? If the seaon is totally lost, why not start Heavy Paper over Rose? The list of odd happenings go on and on. For such a decorated resume, even our commentators wonder why Curry (at this point) isn't kept on the floor. Learn to play with fouls now, while the season is in shambles.

Where do we honestly start in terms of turning this thing around?

Heavy Paper doesn't play the right way.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
holfresh
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4/6/2006  11:09 PM
Posted by gr33d:

Been reading here for a while and I'd like to offer another view.

Our teams two biggest problems imo have been team defense and turn-overs. While at first glance, turn-overs can be a direct effect of a poor PG. So can not having set rotations where players feel comfortable. And team defense is complete TEAM failure. Watching Stephons man beat him off the dribble kills me, but collectively, we've been awful. And to his defense, he's played a large number of minutes guarding bigger 2's in the post/perimeter. Trading him (while his value is at an all time low) for Minny's spare parts is a scary thought.

The other thing is, if Crawford is so high on Brown's "keeper" list.. Why has he been coming off the bench until now? If the seaon is totally lost, why not start Heavy Paper over Rose? The list of odd happenings go on and on. For such a decorated resume, even our commentators wonder why Curry (at this point) isn't kept on the floor. Learn to play with fouls now, while the season is in shambles.

Where do we honestly start in terms of turning this thing around?



Nice theory but Steph averages 2.6 TO per game...So the other 16-18 TO comes elsewhere..
Nalod
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4/6/2006  11:16 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I agree, but if he's traded (which I hope does happen), I'm still gonna root for him to succeed where ever he ends up.


Thats really sweet!
gr33d
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4/6/2006  11:21 PM
holfresh, i was actually defending Steph there. Re-read the post, as I was referencing our shaky line-ups as a major reason for our high t/o numbers. It's not even a debate, he's clearly the most talented player on our roster. But don't pretend he's not part of the problem. Everyone here needs to be held accountable
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joec32033
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4/6/2006  11:54 PM
^Accountability is only for players whose names don't rhyme with Farbury....everyone else MUST be held accountable, because they are obviously the problem.
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NYKniCksFan87
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4/7/2006  12:17 AM
hol siad im blinded by marbury hate....is he blinded by marbury love?
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Marv
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4/7/2006  7:24 AM
What ? I missed an opportunity to comment on old fart basketball players???

here's my comparison - take the players today who are lauded for their "complete" or fundamental games - ak47, Manu, Rip, Artest, Pierce, etc. - this type of player was much much more pentiiful back then. Be it Havlicek, Billy Cunningham, Rick Barry, Elgin Baylor, Clyde, Dave Bing, Hal Greer, Lou Hudson, Oscar, DeBuscherre, Lenny, Jerry West, Sam Jones, the Pearl, etc. etc. The skills, fundamentals, knowledge of the game, professionalism, team play. Christ it was like a league of "Larry Brown players!!"

Someone (Nalod?) mentioned Gail Goodrich. That guy was a 2nd or 3rd tier star then and he'd be Steve Nash now!

And Wilt and Russ? These guys were track stars!! Unbelievable world class athletes - high jumpers, sprinters - on top of being ridiculously skilled basketball players. And strong as hell despite not living in a culture of weight-lifting.

And the bangers - the Bridges, Silases, Gus and Luke Jacksons, Cowenses, Unselds, etc. you don't have too many of that type today and when you do they rule the league a la Big Ben.

So i'm not dissing today's game - I love it and I love the laers - but I have big-time great memories of the old guys and I think their games more than hold up.

You just knew I was gonna say this s##t, right?
Nalod
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4/7/2006  9:26 AM
GoodRich is in the Hall of Fame.

I hated Goodrich and Jerry West on the Lakers.

Cowenses? Sounds like a skin disorder. "I got an acute case of epidermel Cowenses".

Whats different now? Money. Big multigenerational wealth for even average players.

I also have a small theory. Very small.

I think the college player in the olympics made for an elite pride for those players who MADE the team. They were young and that experience playing for country galvanized a work ethic and respect not found today.

They became a small "club" to speak.

4 years of college and international travel teams in the summer also made for an elite status and mutual respect.

Being an all american in college. Again, the resume building experience.

All the above created relationships too with other top playing peers and they all went into the NBA. They had proven themselves in the amateur ranks and had high self esteem. It was not about who got what sneaker contract, who was lotto out of highschool, and not who is on the cover of a video game.

Blame the fan and marketing for what is wrong.

More small theory. THe variance of players back then was greater. Today you have so many great athletes that they all seem to play at a high level. Example, look at earl the pearl. Small , skinny and not a great jumper. But his quickness was off the charts and that skill was very different than others. Wilt height was considerable, but he athletic prowess was also off the charts at that time. As was Russells. My point is some of those players back then had super freaky natural ability compared to the peer group. Today you have a slew of highly conditioned and very athletic players that makes some of those attributes neutral. Im not talking about the Jordans and Lebrons mind you. There are still a handful of players on another planet.

Just some small points that I have thought about as to why things are different.
Bippity10
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4/7/2006  11:15 AM
I think spending 4 years in college and having a college coach beat you up for 4 years taught players to respect coach's and realizes they are on the same page and want to win together. They learn that it isn't the system that wins, it isn't the coach that wins, its' the team that wins. They come to the pros and can then fit in any stystem and can adapt to any role or any adversity.

Nowadays kids are given everything in highschool and then go to the pros expecting it again. As soon as a coach won't give them everything they rebel and thus don't become well rounded and can only play in one type of system. Then we fire the coach and start giving more to the players. Then we end up with guys complaining about the system of a hall of fame coach that was in the finals the past two years and we have fans backing them up saying that the league has past by a coach who was just in the finals the year before. The truth is Europe is slowly passing us by because of this individualistic approach.

Vinnie Johnson was one of the most dominant scorers of his time, yet he was forced to play 6th man. never once complained. Just helped his team win.
I just hope that people will like me
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Damn....francis cried after the game last night
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