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KNICKS FANS....YOU"RE BEING PLAYED!!!
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TMS
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3/21/2006  3:21 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Ok tell me this, If you think it's all Marbs....What point guard's defense are you so happy with that Steph should pattern his defense after...Also, tell me what point guard in this league do you see covering bigger guards and be successful at it....Tell me just one, on the second part of my question.....

Jason Kidd is the easy & most obvious answer to that one... come on dude... why do you even bother asking such questions when you know damn well there are plenty of other PG's in the game that play better defense than Marbury.
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fishmike
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3/21/2006  3:24 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

nixluva at what point is it the player's fault? Noone's asking Marb's to be a shut down defender. But with the team up 2 and a minute left it would be nice to know your PG will not fall asleep, lose his concentration and let his guy drift out to the three point line uncontested. We can't trust him. He shouldn't be hated for that. I dont' hate him for that. It's not the poor defense that brings the ire from fans. It's the poor defense followed by anger at the coach that asks him to play better defense even though he never wins that causes the ire.
does this mean Bip is not an "actual" fan? I mean what are we (LB really) asking for from Marbury? Marbury is SO physical he really doesnt have an excuse NOT to be a lock down defender, but I wont even go there.

My knock on Marbury is simply he get beat most nights, and in my opinion by players with inferior talent. Its a big deal. If Ewing doesnt play defense he just a black version of Big Z. Its just wierd to me that a guy that plays with such a scowl only looks to beat you on one side of the floor.

I dont blame Marbury for this season. Right now he's part of the problem and not part of the solution. He's a big part of the loser culture our players have. Why couldnt he buy into DAntonio's system either? 2 years ago Nash was a good player but at 30+ not worth the money Pho was willing to give him. Wow... remember that?

We play our best ball when Larry empties the bench and the kids go at it on BOTH ends of the court. Crawford has worked at it. Q has worked at it. Are they are talented as Marbury? Not in my opinion... which makes it even more frustrating. Whats he trying to prove? That Dre Miller and Earl Boykins can score at will on him?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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3/21/2006  3:24 PM
so if we had kidd, we'd be in the playoffs this year? Kidd is more of an LB type of player, and he may actually try to succeed instead of battling egos with kidd.

I prefer the drive and dish scoring guards myself, but kidd is also one of the best guards ever...they are going to rename the triple double the Jason Kidd.

It's one thing to hope he plays tough defense, it's another to say that the knicks have a crappy record solely because marbs isn't as good as kidd.

Admit it aint all marbs, I'll admit he sucks on defense and lacks the ability to blend.
all kool aid all the time.
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:24 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Steph has better assist numbers that all those stiffs like Breven Knight through- out his career...And you think those guys play any lic of D...Like it or not, Steph is one of the better guys distrubuting the ball in the game today.

i think you should've looked up Brevin Knight's stats before you responded to that one... he's averaging almost 9 assists & over 2 steals per game & look at what he's playing with... again, i just got through saying he was a less talented player than Marbury but again you choose to hear what you want to hear... it's about style of play & who i think is a better fit for LB's system.

can't wait to see what you're going to come up with to accuse me of hating on Marbury this time.

& btw, just to add to this... go look up some of the game logs that Brevin Knight posted when the Bobcats played the Knicks over the past 2 seasons & tell me if he's not just as good a passer as Marbury... scoring wise there's no contest & i never disputed that, but my whole agenda is to get a guy who's less worried about his scoring & more worried about getting the rest of his teammates involved in the offense while playing defense & being a leader on the floor... Brevin Knight was just 1 example, but he's a good fit here... Marbury isn't.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
rvhoss
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3/21/2006  3:25 PM
it ain't all marbs.
all kool aid all the time.
holfresh
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3/21/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Steph has better assist numbers that all those stiffs like Breven Knight through- out his career...And you think those guys play any lic of D...Like it or not, Steph is one of the better guys distrubuting the ball in the game today.

i think you should've looked up Brevin Knight's stats before you responded to that one... he's averaging almost 9 assists & over 2 steals per game & look at what he's playing with... again, i just got through saying he was a less talented player than Marbury but again you choose to hear what you want to hear... it's about style of play & who i think is a better fit for LB's system.

can't wait to see what you're going to come up with to accuse me of hating on Marbury this time.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 3:18 PM]



No need to look up Breven Knight stats...I did say career....This guy has been on like seven teams in his career and I don't think he has played a full season since being in the league...Thats one season with 9 assist...And stop with this style of play thing with LB... I think it was Kenny Smith who said "there is no such thing as a Larry Brown system...thats utter nonsense...The problem with the Knicks is not with Marbs but with everyone else trying to keep up with Marbs"...Marbs is a stud, no one else on this team is....But somehow, somehow, he is the problem.. That's a loose quote by the way but u get the jist of what he meant....
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

It's one thing to hope he plays tough defense, it's another to say that the knicks have a crappy record solely because marbs isn't as good as kidd.

& when did anyone on this board say it was all Marb's fault? all i hear are you Marbury supporters constantly bringing that point up out of nowhere... no one here has ever blamed the disaster of a season all on Marbury... we're looking towards the future & ways of improving this team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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3/21/2006  3:28 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Ok tell me this, If you think it's all Marbs....What point guard's defense are you so happy with that Steph should pattern his defense after...Also, tell me what point guard in this league do you see covering bigger guards and be successful at it....Tell me just one, on the second part of my question.....

Jason Kidd is the easy & most obvious answer to that one... come on dude... why do you even bother asking such questions when you know damn well there are plenty of other PG's in the game that play better defense than Marbury.



Jason Kidd gets beat laterally all the time...He has been a defender in the post but not on the perimeter, he gets blown by as well...And he covers bigger guards?
fishmike
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3/21/2006  3:29 PM
rv, nixluva and holfresh... maybe i didnt read hard enough. Can you point out to me anywhere in this thread or any thread where a poster said this team's problems are solely (you bolded it) because of Marbury? All people are saying is that Marbury's play is a part of the problem, not part of the solution. People are saying that Marbury has the ability and talent to have a real impact here and he's failing to do that because he doesnt play hard on defense. People are saying that because he doesnt defend its shows poor leadership. This is all people are saying. Marbury is also the team's best player, so he's going to get most of the attention.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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3/21/2006  3:30 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Steph has better assist numbers that all those stiffs like Breven Knight through- out his career...And you think those guys play any lic of D...Like it or not, Steph is one of the better guys distrubuting the ball in the game today.

i think you should've looked up Brevin Knight's stats before you responded to that one... he's averaging almost 9 assists & over 2 steals per game & look at what he's playing with... again, i just got through saying he was a less talented player than Marbury but again you choose to hear what you want to hear... it's about style of play & who i think is a better fit for LB's system.

can't wait to see what you're going to come up with to accuse me of hating on Marbury this time.

& btw, just to add to this... go look up some of the game logs that Brevin Knight posted when the Bobcats played the Knicks over the past 2 seasons & tell me if he's not just as good a passer as Marbury... scoring wise there's no contest & i never disputed that, but my whole agenda is to get a guy who's less worried about his scoring & more worried about getting the rest of his teammates involved in the offense while playing defense & being a leader on the floor... Brevin Knight was just 1 example, but he's a good fit here... Marbury isn't.



Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:30 PM
Posted by holfresh:
The problem with the Knicks is not with Marbs but with everyone else trying to keep up with Marbs

& what's easier & more logical to you? getting rid of Marbs & getting a player to fill his position that fits in better w/the rest of the team we already have, or getting rid of everyone else on the team & TRYING to put together a new team that will fit in well with Marbury? i venture to guess that all the other teams that Marbury has played for tried going the latter route w/no success, so they got rid of him instead.
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fishmike
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3/21/2006  3:31 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by rvhoss:

It's one thing to hope he plays tough defense, it's another to say that the knicks have a crappy record solely because marbs isn't as good as kidd.

& when did anyone on this board say it was all Marb's fault? all i hear are you Marbury supporters constantly bringing that point up out of nowhere... no one here has ever blamed the disaster of a season all on Marbury... we're looking towards the future & ways of improving this team.
LOL.. just wrote the exact same thing. These guys are nuts... its like arguing with women. Tell a woman you dont want to hang out with her girlfiend. They hear you hate their girlfriend. There is a difference.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:33 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....

since when is getting over 2 steals per game considered not playing any defense?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by rvhoss:

It's one thing to hope he plays tough defense, it's another to say that the knicks have a crappy record solely because marbs isn't as good as kidd.

& when did anyone on this board say it was all Marb's fault? all i hear are you Marbury supporters constantly bringing that point up out of nowhere... no one here has ever blamed the disaster of a season all on Marbury... we're looking towards the future & ways of improving this team.
LOL.. just wrote the exact same thing. These guys are nuts... its like arguing with women. Tell a woman you dont want to hang out with her girlfiend. They hear you hate their girlfriend. There is a difference.


tell me about it dude... they keep harping on the same crap about us hating on Marbury & blaming all the team's woes on him & keep missing the points we're trying to make... it's actually pretty funny at this point.

the funniest was when this guy spouts off about Marbury's assist totals, & i point out that Brevin Knight's averaging more assists this year than Marbs & he tells me not to look up stats... that was classic.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 3:37 PM]
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Bonn1997
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3/21/2006  3:43 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....

since when is getting over 2 steals per game considered not playing any defense?
You can't seriously base your evaluation of a player's defense on steals per game? If you are going to, though, then Marbury's a solid, slightly above average defender (1.3 per game for his career).



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03-21-2006 3:44 PM]
Swishfm3
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3/21/2006  3:47 PM
~TMS

maybe some credit should be given to Coach Bickerstaff and the Bobcats coaching staff since B.Knight was basically a journey man before joining this team and avg nothing close to what he is since his rookie year

maybe...just maybe...Coach Bickerstaff installed a system to fit the players that he has.
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:47 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Breven doesn't play D...He better pass the ball because he can't score....

since when is getting over 2 steals per game considered not playing any defense?
You can't seriously base your evaluation of a player's defense on steals per game? If you are going to, though, then Marbury's a solid, slightly above average defender (1.3 per game for his career).



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03-21-2006 3:44 PM]


Bonn, did i say i based my entire evaluation of defense on steals per game? are you saying steals have nothing to do w/a player's ability to play defense? Brevin Knight's 1 of the leaders in the NBA in steals... part of playing good defense is getting into passing lanes & disrupting the flow of the other team's offense... getting steals plays a big role in that.
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djsunyc
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3/21/2006  3:49 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

~TMS

maybe some credit should be given to Coach Bickerstaff and the Bobcats coaching staff since B.Knight was basically a journey man before joining this team and avg nothing close to what he is since his rookie year

maybe...just maybe...Coach Bickerstaff installed a system to fit the players that he has.

share the ball, play defense, play hard...you're right, lb's system doesn't fit with the players we have.
TMS
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3/21/2006  3:49 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

~TMS

maybe some credit should be given to Coach Bickerstaff and the Bobcats coaching staff since B.Knight was basically a journey man before joining this team and avg nothing close to what he is since his rookie year

maybe...just maybe...Coach Bickerstaff installed a system to fit the players that he has.


i'm fine w.giving some credit to Bickerstaff & the system they put in place... but i also give Knight credit for buying into that system & raising the level of his play too... it goes hand in hand... that's what gets to the core of what i'm saying here... i want a PG who will buy into LB's system... Marbury isn't doing that & i don't believe he ever will.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Swishfm3
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3/21/2006  3:54 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by rvhoss:

It's one thing to hope he plays tough defense, it's another to say that the knicks have a crappy record solely because marbs isn't as good as kidd.

& when did anyone on this board say it was all Marb's fault? all i hear are you Marbury supporters constantly bringing that point up out of nowhere... no one here has ever blamed the disaster of a season all on Marbury... we're looking towards the future & ways of improving this team.
LOL.. just wrote the exact same thing. These guys are nuts... its like arguing with women. Tell a woman you dont want to hang out with her girlfiend. They hear you hate their girlfriend. There is a difference.


tell me about it dude... they keep harping on the same crap about us hating on Marbury & blaming all the team's woes on him & keep missing the points we're trying to make... it's actually pretty funny at this point.

the funniest was when this guy spouts off about Marbury's assist totals, & i point out that Brevin Knight's averaging more assists this year than Marbs & he tells me not to look up stats... that was classic.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 3:37 PM]


what?!

you guys are ready to hang him.....the only complaint you guys have with this team is Marbury! lol

you fail to mention anything else....so of course, the impression you are giving is that Marbury is to blame.
but I expect nothing less...straddle the fence....so when everything goes right...you can always say:

"I never said that. what I was trying to say......"


co-mo-dee
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