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Bucks trade for Magloire?
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BRIGGS
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10/27/2005  7:55 PM


Actually Bogut was only at Utah for 2 years. It's kind of funny reading some of these posts. Andrew Bogut puts up 17 8 3 + 3 on Marcus Camby and someone is toasting him. Bogut is a vey good player, don't try to analyze past the part that 95% of NBA+ wouldve selected him first, because it makes you look foolish. He's a good player, he's young, he has to get used to this style of play a bit, the speed, but as last night showed you, he isnt just potential, he's a serious player NOW. If given the PT and touches Bogut can do what he did last night almost every night, just wont happen consistently in yr 1. the nice thing about Bogut, is he can be moved to 4, and he can be utilized as a high post passer--he's got a great package, he does all of the little things that arent in the box score. I can see him puting up something like 13 points 8 rebounds in yr 1, simply because he wont have as much time now that they have magliore. If he was on a New Orleans Hornets, he would be close to 20-10
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Bonn1997
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10/27/2005  8:01 PM
Why focus on one preseason game at the exlusion of all his other (unimpressive) preseason games? I wouldn't make that big a deal out of any of his preseason games but it paints an innacurate picture to look at only one preseason game.

95% of NBA+ wouldve selected him first
I don't know about that. I bet a lot of GMs (maybe 20 to 30%) would have seen as having too low an upside and would have either gone with Marvin or traded down.
nyk4ever
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10/27/2005  8:13 PM
I still don't understand why people want to see Bogut fail. It's not like the Nets or the Heat drafted him, then I could kinda understand it but he went to the BUCKS a team that hasn't mattered in YEARS. I just really don't understand it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Solace
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10/28/2005  4:38 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I still don't understand why people want to see Bogut fail. It's not like the Nets or the Heat drafted him, then I could kinda understand it but he went to the BUCKS a team that hasn't mattered in YEARS. I just really don't understand it.

Think a little harder and you'll get it.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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10/28/2005  7:38 AM
It's probably because Bogut's so arrogant and ****y
Killa4luv
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10/28/2005  10:13 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I still don't understand why people want to see Bogut fail. It's not like the Nets or the Heat drafted him, then I could kinda understand it but he went to the BUCKS a team that hasn't mattered in YEARS. I just really don't understand it.


I don't want to see him fail, I just saw him play in college about 5 times, and didn't think he was what everyone said he was. I couldn't see it. He was a good college player and does have skills, but is rather slow and I wasn't certain that his game would translate into the NBA as well. He was playing against guys who were several inches shorter, or stiffs most of the time.

When others here were saying that he would be 20 and 10 (or something close) in his first year, I couldn't see it and didn't agree with it. Now that he has yet to drop 20 & 10, was unimpressive in summer league play, and was generally unimpressive in the preseason, it seems that my position is being proven correct. Of course it is still too early to tell, but I am just pointing out that there are several indications that he isn't what folks were saying he was, AND there are indications that Milwaukee desn't have total confidence in him because they traded for a starting center.

The jury is not out on him, but there are some early indications that don't look good. Thats the bottom line. 4 months ago people would have said he would have dominated summer league and preseason. 4 months ago, no one would have imagined Milwaukee trading for a starting center after drafting the best big man and most NBA-ready player in the draft. BUT, everyone wants to act like this is par for the course. I am not having that, MAN UP!!!!!!!

[Edited by - killa4luv on 10-28-2005 1:11 PM]
islesfan
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10/28/2005  10:17 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

It's probably because Bogut's so arrogant and ****y


And Nate isn't? But that doesn't stop people here from making him out to be better than he is.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rvhoss
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10/28/2005  11:02 AM
every knick is better than they really are because they are knicks.

Also, NYK...didn't mean to hit a nerve...jeez, some of you guys are pretty sensitive.

I come to get basketball knowledge from the UK experts, and from Knick fans...it's nice to come to a site that has everything knicks, so I don't have to buy all three papers and subscribe to every sports web site.

Now, if you are going to cry because I wondered why you thought Bogut shouldn't fail because he was older than most college grads, played international ball in the olympics and excelled in both areas and was a number one pick, then I wonder why everyone is so desperate for us to have the worst record in the league and get the number one pick and suddenly win a championship.

Stop being a baby and just take comments for what they are...OPINION.

Atleast all of my statements/opinions are pro knicks. That's more than I can say for some.

I would have taken bogut number one had I had the pick, however, I think Frye was a better pick hindsight 20/20.

Jeez.

no doubt (lower case on purpose...because I have none)

[Edited by - rvhoss on 10-28-2005 11:05 AM]
all kool aid all the time.
Solace
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10/28/2005  11:06 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

It's probably because Bogut's so arrogant and ****y


And Nate isn't? But that doesn't stop people here from making him out to be better than he is.

Certain players can get away with certain attitudes that others can't, based on a variety of factors. Nate is little and he's the underdog, so everyone roots for him. He's also athletic, which IMHO is the most overrated, subjective statement that can be made about a player. Bogut is big and dominated college. He's not considered athletic. He never was the underdog in any facet, except for public perception.

So, you have to ask yourself why Andrew Bogut, a guy, who thusfar has barely done anything to show that he's not going to be a very good center, and is an intelligent guy has so many people down on him, while someone like Nate Robinson, who will never even be an NBA starter has the backing of everyone in the league. It's not just where they were selected. There's something wrong with this picture. I'll leave it for you to decide.

Now, let me add my disclaimer. I am glad to have Nate. I think he will make a good backup PG. He'll never be a star, though... hopefully everyone can accept that fact.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Killa4luv
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10/28/2005  1:10 PM
Bogut was the underdog in public perception?

Bogut is inteligent? What are you basing this on?

He hasn't done anything to show that he will be a very good center. There are some signs that are alarming that I posted earlier, that no one wants to address, but thats cool.
nyk4ever
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10/28/2005  1:15 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

There are some signs that are alarming that I posted earlier, that no one wants to address, but thats cool.

That's because you haven't said anything different from the earlier part of this thread, your saying the same thing over again and I've already responded to that.

And what are your alarming sings? All you basically said was that he has failed to post a 20 and 10 game this preaseason. By that same token I see a guy shooting 51.6% from the field and isn't getting more then 8 shots a night, seems to me he's doing just fine, it'd be a different story if he was shooting 40% Are those the multiple alarming signs you were talking about?

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-28-2005 1:22 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Marv
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10/28/2005  1:17 PM
Posted by Solace:

Now, let me add my disclaimer. I am glad to have Nate. I think he will make a good backup PG. He'll never be a star, though... hopefully everyone can accept that fact.

not me. i predict he will be a star. it makes sense that he's going to have to work on making some adjustments to his game right now, but i think he'll do it fairly quickly and be a bust-out.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/28/2005  1:23 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Solace:

Now, let me add my disclaimer. I am glad to have Nate. I think he will make a good backup PG. He'll never be a star, though... hopefully everyone can accept that fact.

not me. i predict he will be a star. it makes sense that he's going to have to work on making some adjustments to his game right now, but i think he'll do it fairly quickly and be a bust-out.

Once Nate gets through the rookie mistakes while being molded by Larry Brown, he's going to be something special on this team. Look for him to break out within the first 2 years.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
rvhoss
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10/28/2005  1:24 PM
I think our 3 first round picks will go down as the best draft class ever. All stars. IMHO

no doubt

[Edited by - rvhoss on 10-28-2005 1:26 PM]
all kool aid all the time.
Killa4luv
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10/28/2005  1:34 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Solace:

Now, let me add my disclaimer. I am glad to have Nate. I think he will make a good backup PG. He'll never be a star, though... hopefully everyone can accept that fact.

not me. i predict he will be a star. it makes sense that he's going to have to work on making some adjustments to his game right now, but i think he'll do it fairly quickly and be a bust-out.

I disagree. I am not really impressed with his game. He does things that impress me because of his size, but he has a looong way to go in terms of development.

He needs a floater: he is not dunking over anyone and he cannot continue to drive to the lane with reckless abandon and think he can just finish with 6-10 guys and 7 footers all over the place...this is not the NCAA.

He needs a jumper: defenders will start to just lay off of him if he can't consistantly hit jumpshots. That jumper will allow him to wreak havoc, he will be unguardable. He's already unguardable, but he is not unstoppable because he can't finish consistantly.

He needs to learn how to pass: he doesn't pass well or often, and he can't be a star PG that way.

Turnovers: He makes alot, but this should be the easiest thing to fix, its about decision making and I think LB can help him tremendously in this area.
Killa4luv
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10/28/2005  1:39 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I don't remember anyone expecting Bogut to be an allstar this year. Trust me I would not forget something like that
I dug up the thread and the mods locked my account and removed it. So your memory isn't as good as you thought it was. BRIGGS said 19 and 10, this year!! And he wasn't alone! But I can't dig it up again because I'll get locked and I don't like that, this is my drug!!
martin
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10/28/2005  1:50 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by gunsnewing:

I don't remember anyone expecting Bogut to be an allstar this year. Trust me I would not forget something like that
I dug up the thread and the mods locked my account and removed it. So your memory isn't as good as you thought it was. BRIGGS said 19 and 10, this year!! And he wasn't alone! But I can't dig it up again because I'll get locked and I don't like that, this is my drug!!


hey man, reference the url all you want but bring up some usless and pointless threads and know that I think it's a waste of time.

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Solace
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10/28/2005  3:04 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Bogut was the underdog in public perception?

Bogut is inteligent? What are you basing this on?

He hasn't done anything to show that he will be a very good center. There are some signs that are alarming that I posted earlier, that no one wants to address, but thats cool.

I think you misread what I said. I said Nate was an underdog. As for your other comments, I detect a lot of bias, so I'm not going to argue. Bogut isn't a Knick and you don't like him. Understood. Let's move on...
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Killa4luv
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10/28/2005  3:20 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Bogut was the underdog in public perception?

Bogut is inteligent? What are you basing this on?

He hasn't done anything to show that he will be a very good center. There are some signs that are alarming that I posted earlier, that no one wants to address, but thats cool.


I think you misread what I said. I said Nate was an underdog. As for your other comments, I detect a lot of bias, so I'm not going to argue. Bogut isn't a Knick and you don't like him. Understood. Let's move on...
Its really not bias, if he starts busting some NBA ass, I'm with him. I would have been like this if Lebron James was looking weak in his first showings because he had alot of hype. LBJ never dissappointed though. Bogut is starting off a little shaky, I'm not making this up, he really is, and Milwaukee traded for a starting center!!!!

What would be the message sent if the knicks orchestrated a trade for Tony Parker, or drafted Deron Williams? Thats the only point I am making about Bogut, he is starting off slower than EVERYONE predicted he would. The jury isn't out but these are not good signs. Thats it. I don't hate him, I thought his comments about Kobe & Luc Longley were hilarious, and very ballsy. I just never thought he'd be the all-star center everyone else did, and its not because he's white, as some here have intimated. I wouldn't care if he was blue.
TheloniusMonk
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10/28/2005  3:27 PM
I've personally got my eye on Bogut because he bad mouthed accomplished NBA players before he even stepped onto an NBA court. Although I'm not big a fan of the people he bad mouthed, he has made himself a target. I would have been the same way if Okafor or Lebron or Yao or Kwame and whoever else made those types of statements b4 they came into the league. You have to consistantly dominate in this league before you believe your own hype.

If he does well, then I guess he knew what he was talking about. But please believe that he is under a bigger microscope now than he would have been if he hadn't called out certain guys.
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