DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Here are my scattered thoughts on the matter:

- It's been widely reported that there were factions within Knicks brass who didn't want to give Thibs an extension (Leon's #2 WWW etc.)

In an organization that does not leak, I don't doubt there are disagreements on big decision. This is NORMAL for pretty much every organization under the sun. Plus, I'm sure Johnny Bryant didn't care that Thibs got extended and he wasn't able to take over. Like that.

- Thibs crop of assistants has been less and less impressive every year

You and I have exactly zero clue on how any of the assistants perform. Zero. If this is otherwise, substantiate that for me. They also hired the best big man coach in the business. They also hired the best med team in the business. Leon does not fool around across the board.

- Leon emptied his chips last offseason in a bid to transform the way the Knicks play, which he obv thought was deficient for a legitimate championship run

At the time of the Mikal trade, the roster would have looked like this:

Jalen, Mikal, OG, Randle, iHart
Payne, McBride, DDV, Hart, Mitch

iHart decision ****ed that up, not Leon going for Mikal; the above was the championship team that was more primed than this version. iHart stays and Mitch is healthy sooner, then YES, they do have something very different. Again, iHart ****ed that up.

We could also say that the Knicks managed their cap and Brunson's extension magnificently while also staying under the second apron. The Knicks NEEDED to maximize the Bojan contract BECAUSE of the second apron WHILE keeping Brunson at a much lower cost. What was Brunson's ask to the lower contract? I think it is reasonable to say it was Mikal. That was the tradeoff. You don't trade for Mikal, perhaps Brunson does not budge.

- After looking the part of an elite offensive team for maybe half the year, they slowly turned into the same kind of team Thibs has coached his entire career, which was largely focused around one player's ball dominance. The calls for Thibs' head due to this have become much louder by voices who have had Thibs' back for years, in terms of media figures etc... The seat got hotter and hotter through the DET series. Essentially you can no longer blame the roster for lack of coherent offensive attack. It all falls on coaching now because the offensive talent is elite but the production is not.

Let me know what teams outside of exactly 2 extraordinary teams in the NBA don't have ups and downs in the regular season. Also, you need to get me your gauge on how you KNOW who is on the hot seat and not so much, cause I don't agree with you and don't think you can really substantiate that.

- There is no ability to make major trades anymore, so is Leon going to accept this team performing less than a sum of its parts on offense for another year?

False. The Knicks managed their cap extraordinarily well. They will be about $9M under the second apron and will be able to combine contracts, unlike Boston and Cleveland and others. They have plenty of space to make trades, it's just about the willingness to do so. You made up that hurdle out of nowhere.

- This current Knick window is relatively short before roster retooling is necessary. If Leon is not 100% sold on Thibs for the next 3 years, then I think he makes his move this year. It doesn't really make sense to wait out another year unless he's sold on him for the entire run in my opinion.

The Knicks have about a 3-4 year window at least. Every single player of consequence is under 30. What other teams are in a better or different position outside of OKC?

In Thibs favor:
- The bench is CLEARLY lacking in a major way. Does Leon give him a pass as he tries to round out the roster?
- He has the backing of Brunson, which might be the most important thing of all.
- Knicks while looking very shaky during the DET series, did eventually expel of them in 6 games although by pure luck to some degree
- Knick just had the best playoff win in 25 years last night and are up 1-0 on the champs.

In many ways, majority of coaches is coaching for their lives during a given playoff run. If you get upset by a worse team or underperform, many coaches will be instacanned. I don't think anyone would argue if we ended up losing to DET that Thibs would be gone. So it really does come down to series by series to some degree.

In terms of Thibs assistants, he pretty much has lost a high profile assistant every year without adding one back. He lost Woodson, then he lost JB. He added Mo Cheeks, who hasn't really been relevant as a coach in 15 years. Many top coaches are adding high profile assistants every year, as coaches get fired and move to becoming assistants. Thibs doesn't really have anyone on his staff anymore that is either a recent head coach or someone with the juice to be a future head coach. I do give them BIG credit for hiring the Mavs trainer, no doubt.

As fans we can't substantiate anything besides sentiment and reporting. But sentiment definitely shifted late this season amongst fans, media, talking heads who have been pro-Thibs for awhile and watched the offense unravel. I also wouldn't really consider what we saw from the Knicks offense "ups and downs" as much as a slow and steady regression.

Knicks window is based on the contract length of their core which is another 3 years. That's the window for this team. So if you are sold on Thibs for the next 3 years great. IF you are not, you might as well allow a new coach that window to try and take this team to the next level.

Knicks assets are severely depleted now, that is our inability to make major trades. We don't have the assets that we used to, only a few crappy picks left and not too many young players of value on rookie contracts. We can still make some smaller trades no doubt, but the core of this team is largely a finished product.

You really haven't substantiated any of this, so it's just your feel and opinion, I just dont agree with your take.

Here is their cap situation:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/knickzfeed/status/1911846215651844144

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Here are my scattered thoughts on the matter:

- It's been widely reported that there were factions within Knicks brass who didn't want to give Thibs an extension (Leon's #2 WWW etc.)

In an organization that does not leak, I don't doubt there are disagreements on big decision. This is NORMAL for pretty much every organization under the sun. Plus, I'm sure Johnny Bryant didn't care that Thibs got extended and he wasn't able to take over. Like that.

- Thibs crop of assistants has been less and less impressive every year

You and I have exactly zero clue on how any of the assistants perform. Zero. If this is otherwise, substantiate that for me. They also hired the best big man coach in the business. They also hired the best med team in the business. Leon does not fool around across the board.

- Leon emptied his chips last offseason in a bid to transform the way the Knicks play, which he obv thought was deficient for a legitimate championship run

At the time of the Mikal trade, the roster would have looked like this:

Jalen, Mikal, OG, Randle, iHart
Payne, McBride, DDV, Hart, Mitch

iHart decision ****ed that up, not Leon going for Mikal; the above was the championship team that was more primed than this version. iHart stays and Mitch is healthy sooner, then YES, they do have something very different. Again, iHart ****ed that up.

We could also say that the Knicks managed their cap and Brunson's extension magnificently while also staying under the second apron. The Knicks NEEDED to maximize the Bojan contract BECAUSE of the second apron WHILE keeping Brunson at a much lower cost. What was Brunson's ask to the lower contract? I think it is reasonable to say it was Mikal. That was the tradeoff. You don't trade for Mikal, perhaps Brunson does not budge.

- After looking the part of an elite offensive team for maybe half the year, they slowly turned into the same kind of team Thibs has coached his entire career, which was largely focused around one player's ball dominance. The calls for Thibs' head due to this have become much louder by voices who have had Thibs' back for years, in terms of media figures etc... The seat got hotter and hotter through the DET series. Essentially you can no longer blame the roster for lack of coherent offensive attack. It all falls on coaching now because the offensive talent is elite but the production is not.

Let me know what teams outside of exactly 2 extraordinary teams in the NBA don't have ups and downs in the regular season. Also, you need to get me your gauge on how you KNOW who is on the hot seat and not so much, cause I don't agree with you and don't think you can really substantiate that.

- There is no ability to make major trades anymore, so is Leon going to accept this team performing less than a sum of its parts on offense for another year?

False. The Knicks managed their cap extraordinarily well. They will be about $9M under the second apron and will be able to combine contracts, unlike Boston and Cleveland and others. They have plenty of space to make trades, it's just about the willingness to do so. You made up that hurdle out of nowhere.

- This current Knick window is relatively short before roster retooling is necessary. If Leon is not 100% sold on Thibs for the next 3 years, then I think he makes his move this year. It doesn't really make sense to wait out another year unless he's sold on him for the entire run in my opinion.

The Knicks have about a 3-4 year window at least. Every single player of consequence is under 30. What other teams are in a better or different position outside of OKC?

In Thibs favor:
- The bench is CLEARLY lacking in a major way. Does Leon give him a pass as he tries to round out the roster?
- He has the backing of Brunson, which might be the most important thing of all.
- Knicks while looking very shaky during the DET series, did eventually expel of them in 6 games although by pure luck to some degree
- Knick just had the best playoff win in 25 years last night and are up 1-0 on the champs.

In many ways, majority of coaches is coaching for their lives during a given playoff run. If you get upset by a worse team or underperform, many coaches will be instacanned. I don't think anyone would argue if we ended up losing to DET that Thibs would be gone. So it really does come down to series by series to some degree.

In terms of Thibs assistants, he pretty much has lost a high profile assistant every year without adding one back. He lost Woodson, then he lost JB. He added Mo Cheeks, who hasn't really been relevant as a coach in 15 years. Many top coaches are adding high profile assistants every year, as coaches get fired and move to becoming assistants. Thibs doesn't really have anyone on his staff anymore that is either a recent head coach or someone with the juice to be a future head coach. I do give them BIG credit for hiring the Mavs trainer, no doubt.

As fans we can't substantiate anything besides sentiment and reporting. But sentiment definitely shifted late this season amongst fans, media, talking heads who have been pro-Thibs for awhile and watched the offense unravel. I also wouldn't really consider what we saw from the Knicks offense "ups and downs" as much as a slow and steady regression.

Knicks window is based on the contract length of their core which is another 3 years. That's the window for this team. So if you are sold on Thibs for the next 3 years great. IF you are not, you might as well allow a new coach that window to try and take this team to the next level.

Knicks assets are severely depleted now, that is our inability to make major trades. We don't have the assets that we used to, only a few crappy picks left and not too many young players of value on rookie contracts. We can still make some smaller trades no doubt, but the core of this team is largely a finished product.

You really haven't substantiated any of this, so it's just your feel and opinion, I just dont agree with your take.

Here is their cap situation:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/knickzfeed/status/1911846215651844144

At the end of the day everything we say here is feel and opinion. Some based on more facts than others in a world where we cannot actually get inside the workings of the team.

I don't think our asset depletion and cap situation leaving us in a tough spot to make meaningful moves is an opinion though, I think that is closer to fact. We have a crafty FO and I think they will figure out a way to do stuff around the margins next year. Being 9M under the second apron with the worst bench in the league isn't exactly a rosy picture of our ability to do that though.

VDesai wrote:Total aside, but I was listening to Roommates pod the other and Jalen told a story that I didn't know - Mo Cheeks cut Rick Brunson back when he was coaching the Sixers. That's when Rick decided to retire. Made Jalen cry. They still welcomed Mo in!

DLeethal wrote:I don't want to ruin the bad vibes after the best Knick win in 25 years. I'm not sold on Thibs as the guy to take this team to the promised land or maximize their ultimate potential. I also think he's been a savior for this team and exactly what we needed to get to this point. Coaching is about as unfair a gig as there is and sometimes the extremely unfair coaching decision is the right one for the team. I kind of think that's where we stand here.

DLeethal wrote:I don't want to ruin the bad vibes after the best Knick win in 25 years. I'm not sold on Thibs as the guy to take this team to the promised land or maximize their ultimate potential. I also think he's been a savior for this team and exactly what we needed to get to this point. Coaching is about as unfair a gig as there is and sometimes the extremely unfair coaching decision is the right one for the team. I kind of think that's where we stand here.

I second this notion. I feel like this team here can be a #1 offense in the league. Just need to unlock KATs passing. He could be like Jokic. That's how we should be playing. If we have a healthy mix of passing plays and ISO we could be absolutely unstoppable on O. I don't think we can ISO our way to a Championship. So far the team and Mr Brunson have been proving me wrong this playoffs and that's great :) however I don't think it's enough. If I am wrong I will be the happiest Knicks fan on the planet if we win it all