mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I hope Melo's shooting is not regressing towards his career #s

You are saying this based on a 1-2 game sample size?

Please don't say "no. I am basing this on his career"

Based on two games, I'm saying I'm hoping he's not. Are you saying my psychological state is wrong?

How about now?

I don't think your judgement and stats respect the need for a go to guy in crunch time.

I posted a stat recently where Melo has the highest FG pct for any active player since 2001 with the scored ties or < 2 or > 2 in the last 24 seconds of games.

Are clutch stats represented in WP and WS?

Also, when no players can beat their man off the dribble and you need someone to post or break down another team (even in ISO), that is where players like Melo (and Kobe) can help. Do they always make the correct pass in that case? NO - but teams don't really run princeton offenses anymore.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I hope Melo's shooting is not regressing towards his career #s

You are saying this based on a 1-2 game sample size?

Please don't say "no. I am basing this on his career"

Based on two games, I'm saying I'm hoping he's not. Are you saying my psychological state is wrong?

How about now?

I don't think your judgement and stats respect the need for a go to guy in crunch time.

I posted a stat recently where Melo has the highest FG pct for any active player since 2001 with the scored ties or < 2 or > 2 in the last 24 seconds of games.

Are clutch stats represented in WP and WS?

Also, when no players can beat their man off the dribble and you need someone to post or break down another team (even in ISO), that is where players like Melo (and Kobe) can help. Do they always make the correct pass in that case? NO - but teams don't really run princeton offenses anymore.

Ugh. You didn't even read that article I posted on the myth of shot creation, did you?

No I did not.

Did you see my paper related to smoking and how it reduces the chances of Parkinsons by 72 percent?

Ugh!

This isn't Baseball nerds, ever play flows in and out of many different variables that you can't quantifi with a ratio.

Melo is in the discussion for league MVP, deal with it.

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.thenbageek.com/articles?tag=Wins+Produced
Here is a little bit:

And here I have to take a minute to address the myth of shot creation. Let's set the record straight on one thing: shot creation, in an absolute sense, simply does not exist. If you put a group of high schoolers on an NBA court, they may indeed have trouble ever getting a shot off vs. an NBA defense that was trying. But historically in the NBA, every team, no matter how bad, has been able to "create" plenty of field goal attempts. Ask the 1990-91 Denver Nuggets, who managed to lead the NBA in FGA and FGM (by a fairly wide margin) with one of its worst offenses and certainly the worst overall team. Consider also that every team, no matter how bad, always seems to have guys who score in double figures and get off lots of shots. Last year the Bobcats were arguably the worst team in NBA history, yet they had 5 guys who were above average in FGA/48 minutes). Somehow, NBA defenses were not shutting them down so much that they couldn't get shots off.

Therefore, arguments that revolve around statements like "Well, someone has to shoot" are generally not worthwhile in discussing "shot creation". Arguments that a player has value because he can "create his own shot" are not helpful, because almost any NBA wing player can do that. If this skill were rare, we would see big variablities in the FGA of teams from year to year. If this skill were rare, would the Bobcats have 5 guys that could do it? The 11/12 Bobcats?

I think 'shot creation' is poorly defined in the quoted text. When I say, 'Carmelo Anthony is great at creating his own shot' I'm not suggesting that he pulled the FGA out of thin air. What I'm saying is that on a one-on-one situation, he's better at getting a high percentage shot off relative to his peers. Kobe, Wade, Durant, Pierce, etc. fit this bill. Steve Novak, while an excellent shooter, is not in this class of 'creating his own shot'. I don't know a single person that has ever defined 'shot creation' as '"create" plenty of field goal attempts'.

NYKMentality wrote:Madison Square Garden faithful loves Melo. They enjoy the greatest Knick talent since Patrick Ewing himself during #33's prime years. At the line tonight with under two minutes to go while Melo was on the verge of putting up 19 fourt quarter points? We heard chants of MVP. MVP. MVP. MVP. Our fan base has spoken; Melo's in the running for MVP. This isn't a sarcastic chant in which we're known for either, this is a serious chant for MVP. Our fan base? The Garden Faithful? We appreciate Melo and his dominating performance(s). There are two sides to basketball. Offense and Defense. With rebounding somewhere in the middle. Melo Anthony? Not only is he one of the strongest rebounding SF's in the game today, but he's also one of the greatest offensive phenom's in the entire world. Just wow watching Melo perform on a nightly basis.

absolutely. between those chants and Kobe Bryant endorsing Melo as the MVP it's hard to believe that 'Knicks fans' on this board are arguing against Melo

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Madison Square Garden faithful loves Melo. They enjoy the greatest Knick talent since Patrick Ewing himself during #33's prime years. At the line tonight with under two minutes to go while Melo was on the verge of putting up 19 fourt quarter points? We heard chants of MVP. MVP. MVP. MVP. Our fan base has spoken; Melo's in the running for MVP. This isn't a sarcastic chant in which we're known for either, this is a serious chant for MVP. Our fan base? The Garden Faithful? We appreciate Melo and his dominating performance(s). There are two sides to basketball. Offense and Defense. With rebounding somewhere in the middle. Melo Anthony? Not only is he one of the strongest rebounding SF's in the game today, but he's also one of the greatest offensive phenom's in the entire world. Just wow watching Melo perform on a nightly basis.

absolutely. between those chants and Kobe Bryant endorsing Melo as the MVP it's hard to believe that 'Knicks fans' on this board are arguing against Melo

I ENDORSE THESE POSTS 100%. Let the naysayers stew and say negatives,we knowledgeable Knicks and Melo fans know whats going on.MELO FOR MVP. Very true with the WOW EVERY DAMN NITE.
Of course,SOMEONE,NOT SAYING WHO,is gonna crawl outta the woodwork like a worm and of course find negatives with MELOS performance,letem talk ****, WE KNOW WHAT MELO CAN AND IS DOING FOR THIS TEAM AND THE CITY OF NY AND KNICKS FANS ALL OVER THE WORLD. 20 WINS 7 LOSSES THATS ALL THAT MATTERS. GO KNICKS

When it's all said and done? When Melo's chapter as a Knick is finally written? How many championships would Melo have won by then? Who knows, that's what the journey's for. But there will be no question about it; We'll look back on pure greatness that forced his way out of Denver in order to play for his heart. New York City. His current #7 jersey? It'll one day be hanging from the Garden rafters alongside Ewing and all the great one's. Something simple minded Knick fans can't seem to imagine. When it's all said and done? Melo may rank top 5 all-time in NBA scoring. Stay healthy, and it's top 10 without question. All-Time we're speaking too.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:http://www.thenbageek.com/articles?tag=Wins+Produced
Here is a little bit:

And here I have to take a minute to address the myth of shot creation. Let's set the record straight on one thing: shot creation, in an absolute sense, simply does not exist. If you put a group of high schoolers on an NBA court, they may indeed have trouble ever getting a shot off vs. an NBA defense that was trying. But historically in the NBA, every team, no matter how bad, has been able to "create" plenty of field goal attempts. Ask the 1990-91 Denver Nuggets, who managed to lead the NBA in FGA and FGM (by a fairly wide margin) with one of its worst offenses and certainly the worst overall team. Consider also that every team, no matter how bad, always seems to have guys who score in double figures and get off lots of shots. Last year the Bobcats were arguably the worst team in NBA history, yet they had 5 guys who were above average in FGA/48 minutes). Somehow, NBA defenses were not shutting them down so much that they couldn't get shots off.

Therefore, arguments that revolve around statements like "Well, someone has to shoot" are generally not worthwhile in discussing "shot creation". Arguments that a player has value because he can "create his own shot" are not helpful, because almost any NBA wing player can do that. If this skill were rare, we would see big variablities in the FGA of teams from year to year. If this skill were rare, would the Bobcats have 5 guys that could do it? The 11/12 Bobcats?

I think 'shot creation' is poorly defined in the quoted text. When I say, 'Carmelo Anthony is great at creating his own shot' I'm not suggesting that he pulled the FGA out of thin air. What I'm saying is that on a one-on-one situation, he's better at getting a high percentage shot off relative to his peers. Kobe, Wade, Durant, Pierce, etc. fit this bill. Steve Novak, while an excellent shooter, is not in this class of 'creating his own shot'. I don't know a single person that has ever defined 'shot creation' as '"create" plenty of field goal attempts'.

If you're now changing the topic to creating high percentage shots, then yes that's important. Career TS% is the best indicator of the quality of your shots though.