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smackeddog wrote:

Clean wrote:I ignore people who seem desperate to trade EF. I would not have minded him being traded for Mitchell but I would not just give him away. All they see him as is the player who was playing through a shoulder and ankle injury at the start of the season. They ignore that once he got healthy he played well and we have a good defense with him in the starting unit the games Kemba did not play. He has his faults but that is on Thibs for not sitting him when he has those off games. We know he will have one game every 7 or 8 where he will not be able to hit a shot. He had it recently in FIBA. During those games instead of playing him his normal minutes how about you sit him and give more minutes to others since we know what we will get from him that game.

I don't get why Buddy Hield and Duncan are regarded having at least neutral values, but Fournier is seen as an albatross by bball writers when he has the better contract. Shooting is good for the young players- spacing is good! Priority needs to be trading randle, not sure why Fournier has seemingly gotten that status from the front office. My wariness is, with Fournier AND Rose, you're capping IQ's or Cam's mins. If we ship out Cam (which I think would be a mistake- I'd love to see him as the main backup SF/PF if we can get rid of Randle.

I think we should initially move Fournier to the bench, see how Grimes looks as starter (don't want to pile too much pressure on him too soon), because of his poor defence, I don't see Thibs over dosing on Fournier's mins. Then nearer the deadline, see whether we need to tank more, and what you can get for Fournier and decide then whether to move him or keep him until the offseason.

Buddy Hield and Duncan are not seen as neutral contracts. Both of them are guys that either have to be traded with better players or draft picks. Fournier might be able to build his value to being neutral but he isn’t exactly neutral right now. Half a season of good play won’t repair a players value. He would have to replicate it next season.

Also it would be a lot easier to use assets to upgrade on Fournier than it would be to try and upgrade Randle or get another star player.

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All he needs is one thing to thrive. If he could breakdown the D he would be one of our top young players.

smackeddog wrote:

Clean wrote:I ignore people who seem desperate to trade EF. I would not have minded him being traded for Mitchell but I would not just give him away. All they see him as is the player who was playing through a shoulder and ankle injury at the start of the season. They ignore that once he got healthy he played well and we have a good defense with him in the starting unit the games Kemba did not play. He has his faults but that is on Thibs for not sitting him when he has those off games. We know he will have one game every 7 or 8 where he will not be able to hit a shot. He had it recently in FIBA. During those games instead of playing him his normal minutes how about you sit him and give more minutes to others since we know what we will get from him that game.

I don't get why Buddy Hield and Duncan are regarded having at least neutral values, but Fournier is seen as an albatross by bball writers when he has the better contract. Shooting is good for the young players- spacing is good! Priority needs to be trading randle, not sure why Fournier has seemingly gotten that status from the front office. My wariness is, with Fournier AND Rose, you're capping IQ's or Cam's mins. If we ship out Cam (which I think would be a mistake- I'd love to see him as the main backup SF/PF if we can get rid of Randle.

I think we should initially move Fournier to the bench, see how Grimes looks as starter (don't want to pile too much pressure on him too soon), because of his poor defence, I don't see Thibs over dosing on Fournier's mins. Then nearer the deadline, see whether we need to tank more, and what you can get for Fournier and decide then whether to move him or keep him until the offseason.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Fournier start (if there is no more trades, but I kinda doubt that too) with Grimes taking over starter minutes as soon as he gets hot and shows consistency.

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DJMUSIC wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:
IN the summer of fun EF 27 pt outing at the fiba thing. He is a knick for now on a good stage. Lets show him some love1

Fournier saw the green jerseys and thought he was playing Boston again

Evan seems to put them stats out when pro "D" is less on him. His age should not be a factor yet.

Not too sold on when those switching team defensive teams are chasing Evan if he can get these stats. Once upon a time more consistent scorer with touches
but everything goes worst when you come to NY.

He got those stats in games last year. There was multiple games were he carried us. He was not good enough for us to actually win those game but it would have been blowouts without him and they were close due to him carrying us. Rose not being injured, Kemba not being a traffic cone or Randle not being a headcase/cancer and we win those games. We got a perfect example of this in the season opener vs the Celtics. Kemba was not nearly as bad on D since it was the start of the season so he was more healthy and Randle also played like his All NBA season.

smackeddog wrote:Looks like this was the text/intel Macri got during that live podcast where he suddenly said he believed every effort would be made to move Julius Randle:

And that’s only if the Knicks can find a taker for Fournier, and more urgently, for Randle. As Jake Fischer said on Friday, Julius is not viewed as an asset around the league. I’ve even been told there are members of the front office in favor of attaching a draft pick of some kind in order to dump the remainder of his contract.

(From his KFS newsletter)

So basically Knicks front office are now willing to add a 1st round pick to get rid of Randle (rather than their position up until now of waiting for something neutral or getting a small something back in return or waiting for him to regain some value).

I’ll believe it when I see it.

Clean wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:
IN the summer of fun EF 27 pt outing at the fiba thing. He is a knick for now on a good stage. Lets show him some love1

Fournier saw the green jerseys and thought he was playing Boston again

Evan seems to put them stats out when pro "D" is less on him. His age should not be a factor yet.

Not too sold on when those switching team defensive teams are chasing Evan if he can get these stats. Once upon a time more consistent scorer with touches
but everything goes worst when you come to NY.

He got those stats in games last year. There was multiple games were he carried us. He was not good enough for us to actually win those game but it would have been blowouts without him and they were close due to him carrying us. Rose not being injured, Kemba not being a traffic cone or Randle not being a headcase/cancer and we win those games. We got a perfect example of this in the season opener vs the Celtics. Kemba was not nearly as bad on D since it was the start of the season so he was more healthy and Randle also played like his All NBA season.

Watching Fournier all of last year he was the living/breathing epitome of give and take player.

He was brutal defensively and on the boards. His defense was horrible both on/off the ball and his defensive IQ was piss poor as well.

On the offensive side - YES - he makes shots and puts up some points but the guy is a net negative player in my mind and is taking minutes from Grimes/Cam.

I say trade him or move him to bench but bench is too close imo.

LivingLegend wrote:

Clean wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:
IN the summer of fun EF 27 pt outing at the fiba thing. He is a knick for now on a good stage. Lets show him some love1

Fournier saw the green jerseys and thought he was playing Boston again

Evan seems to put them stats out when pro "D" is less on him. His age should not be a factor yet.

Not too sold on when those switching team defensive teams are chasing Evan if he can get these stats. Once upon a time more consistent scorer with touches
but everything goes worst when you come to NY.

He got those stats in games last year. There was multiple games were he carried us. He was not good enough for us to actually win those game but it would have been blowouts without him and they were close due to him carrying us. Rose not being injured, Kemba not being a traffic cone or Randle not being a headcase/cancer and we win those games. We got a perfect example of this in the season opener vs the Celtics. Kemba was not nearly as bad on D since it was the start of the season so he was more healthy and Randle also played like his All NBA season.

Watching Fournier all of last year he was the living/breathing epitome of give and take player.

He was brutal defensively and on the boards. His defense was horrible both on/off the ball and his defensive IQ was piss poor as well.

On the offensive side - YES - he makes shots and puts up some points but the guy is a net negative player in my mind and is taking minutes from Grimes/Cam.

I say trade him or move him to bench but bench is too close imo.

This is exactly why I am hoping Kuzma hits the trade market and the Knicks scoop him up. There are other wings people have mentioned like Wiggins or OG, but honestly they all give up shooting in return for defense and rebounds. They would also cost a lot more than they would be worth based on the level of production needed from them on this lineup. However, unless Kuzma goes on a contract year scoring run (aka a Randle). A package of Fournier, the Wiz 2023 (not going to convey but still valuable to them) and that 2023 Mavs pick should be enough, maybe another heavily protected pick too.

Anyhow, Kuzma is a streaky shooter, but he can get white hot from 3, plus he can be a solid defender and a great rebounder. When he is hot that is great. When he is not hot his ability to defend wings and rebound will still make him a net positive, and valuable rotation piece.

For the Wizards they get back a solid roleplayer in Fournier who due to his size can play around their own youth (who need minutes even worst than the Knicks youth do). Also Fournier can maybe get them assets himself next season as an expiring contract. Also they should be trying to set themselves up as a max FA location.

Post trade Knicks
Brunson/IQ/Rose
RJ/Grimes/McBride
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/IHart/Sims

Also, I just got to keep saying this the glimpses of RJ playing with IQ and Toppin, and his history with Reddish. Plus based on the legitimate concerns of Brunson/RJ/Randle operating on the same spaces on the court. The Knicks should try to get RJ minutes with the bench unit. Especially in games where opponents bring out the Zone defense (aka the Knicks killer).

Brunson/IQ/Rose
Grimes/RJ/McBride
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/IHart/Sims

Currently with Fournier if they tried to move RJ to the bench to put out a 3pt shooting offense to break a zone defense, the issue would then be it exposes the rosters wing defense weakness.

Brunson/IQ/Rose
Grimes/RJ/McBride
Fournier/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/IHart/Sims

The above lineup is severely lacking in forward defense because while both Fournier and Randle try to defend, neither of them are solid defenders and especially in the case of Randle, you don’t want him fouling out. Also while RJ is developing his shot. It’s not good enough to be a zone breaking weapon

Add to that Kuzma’s friendly relationship with Randle as former baby Lakers, and the fact he is a CAA client and I think it’s a solid move that could pay back dividends.