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I'm glad the Nets won....
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Bonn1997
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4/29/2005  7:58 AM
Posted by fishmike:

the Nets are an example of a team with a plan, and after that a backup plan. They admittedly made a mistake letting Kenyon go. Then Kidd goes down early and they are 10 games under before the first month is over. Then RJ missed more than half the season. Rather then rush Kidd back (cough cough Houston and McDyess) they play him his 15,20,25,30 minute intervals going the "safe" route. They make a trade for Carter, dont comprimise their future, play great down the stretch and still make the playoffs.

Yes.. they are going to get squashed just like we did last year but they have size, great players, flexibility and they really are one player away. They dont have one bad contract on that team.

Kinda makes you wonder what our plan is...
I think the plan is to get younger and more athletic. Every one of Isiah's trades has brought in more athletic players than he gave up and most of his other decisions have too. (What GM has 100% of their decisions *appearing* consistent with their stated plans? I'm okay with Isiah at around 90%.) I agree Layden messed up with the Houston and McDyess decisions though.

I wouldn't agree with your assessment of the K-Mart decision. At the time, I thought the Nets messed up, but now I think it was a great long-term decision for them to get 3 first round picks for K-Mart. K-Mart's knees are steadily worsening. He's just a 15/8 player now. For a team concerned about payroll, he's not worth a near max contract for six years. The K-Mart trade allowed them to get Vince and still have one 1st rd pick left over. K-Mart for Vince straight up would have been a great deal for the Nets, but they indirectly got Vince and one remaining 1st one pick out of K-Mart.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 04/29/2005 08:39:53]
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fishmike
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4/29/2005  9:02 AM
I think the plan is to get younger and more athletic.
Thats what you want the plan to be. There is no indication from Isiah that the direction he wanted to go in. If it was he wouldnt have extended KT for 4 years, rather look to move him when his deal expires. He wouldnt have signed Vin Baker for 2 years and $8mm. He wouldnt have traded for Mo Taylor or Malik Rose. Getting younger and building a real core of players would be nice, but we have indication thats the route we are going.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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4/29/2005  10:14 AM
Fish, I agree, the nets do have a plan, but this is my problem with their plan. The nets best player is kidd, who is 32 and will be 33 next season, do they resign vince? and what do they do with Jefferson if they do so? The nets have a smaller window than the knicks, the knicks best player in marbs just turned 28m, the knicks have a lot bigger window. Looking at the nets the only skilled big they have is kristic. Collins, scalabrine are bums, uncle cliffy is on his last leg, and the rest are not worth mentioning. I think the nets have a plan, how good, is still yet to be determined..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Silverfuel
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4/29/2005  10:25 AM
Posted by tkf:

Fish, I agree, the nets do have a plan, but this is my problem with their plan. The nets best player is kidd, who is 32 and will be 33 next season, do they resign vince? and what do they do with Jefferson if they do so? The nets have a smaller window than the knicks, the knicks best player in marbs just turned 28m, the knicks have a lot bigger window. Looking at the nets the only skilled big they have is kristic. Collins, scalabrine are bums, uncle cliffy is on his last leg, and the rest are not worth mentioning. I think the nets have a plan, how good, is still yet to be determined..
good post.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Knicksfan
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4/29/2005  12:20 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:


I think the plan is to get younger and more athletic.

And that's a plan? If that is, then we are doomed! A plan consist on which identity you wand your team to have, how will they perform on offense and defense, if they are going to be a defensive minded team, an offensive minded one, etc. Its true that some of the trades done aren't made thinking about the plan because if you can get a great trade, you jump on it. But there are teams that have a plan, execute it and see good results. Look at Detroit, they know their identity, and make moves with that in mind. Same with what Miami did to build the good bench they have. Most of the elite teams have one. And as fish, I wonder if we really have a plan. We made the Marbury trade, a big one that should set the tone of your franchise, and still we have no identity and no plan...
Knicks_Fan
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4/29/2005  12:30 PM
Posted by tkf:

Fish, I agree, the nets do have a plan, but this is my problem with their plan. The nets best player is kidd, who is 32 and will be 33 next season, do they resign vince? and what do they do with Jefferson if they do so? The nets have a smaller window than the knicks, the knicks best player in marbs just turned 28m, the knicks have a lot bigger window. Looking at the nets the only skilled big they have is kristic. Collins, scalabrine are bums, uncle cliffy is on his last leg, and the rest are not worth mentioning. I think the nets have a plan, how good, is still yet to be determined..

Thats true, but the thing that matters is how can they take advantage on their windows. Right now New Jersey's window may be smaller, but they are in the playoffs and another good player could make them contenders next season. They still would have this year's pick along with Kristic as their young core. Jefferson isn't that old too. How they manage their contracts and the players they have now will mark their future window. But at least they have better chances of making trades than us, and the ones they have already made are much better than ours. We keep dreaming big and acomplishing small. At least Kidd and Carter are still playing. Not the same with Houston. We have a lot of big contracts, and with every trade that brings a pick the window could be closing because we take terrible contracts in return. That has been NY's strategie forever, and look at the results. Isiah said he had differentd ideas, yet made some trades NY style. We have some picks now, and the war isn't over, so Isiah still has time...
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gunsnewing
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4/29/2005  12:58 PM
Kristic statline so far in the playoffs as a rookie:

19pts & 8rebs

sure he's their only frontcourt player but he's still a rookie and was drafted in the 40s after we took frank williams which again goes to show that with foreign bigs you are better off scouting them thoroughly and drafting one in the 2nd round and letting him develope in Europe for 2-3yrs like the Nets did with Kristic without eating away a roster spot while hindering his development. Much better than wasting a lottery pick on a potential bust.
tkf
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4/29/2005  1:06 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by tkf:

Fish, I agree, the nets do have a plan, but this is my problem with their plan. The nets best player is kidd, who is 32 and will be 33 next season, do they resign vince? and what do they do with Jefferson if they do so? The nets have a smaller window than the knicks, the knicks best player in marbs just turned 28m, the knicks have a lot bigger window. Looking at the nets the only skilled big they have is kristic. Collins, scalabrine are bums, uncle cliffy is on his last leg, and the rest are not worth mentioning. I think the nets have a plan, how good, is still yet to be determined..

Thats true, but the thing that matters is how can they take advantage on their windows. Right now New Jersey's window may be smaller, but they are in the playoffs and another good player could make them contenders next season. They still would have this year's pick along with Kristic as their young core. Jefferson isn't that old too. How they manage their contracts and the players they have now will mark their future window. But at least they have better chances of making trades than us, and the ones they have already made are much better than ours. We keep dreaming big and acomplishing small. At least Kidd and Carter are still playing. Not the same with Houston. We have a lot of big contracts, and with every trade that brings a pick the window could be closing because we take terrible contracts in return. That has been NY's strategie forever, and look at the results. Isiah said he had differentd ideas, yet made some trades NY style. We have some picks now, and the war isn't over, so Isiah still has time...

actually the nets are more than one player away from being contenders, unless they manage to get Brand or KG and as we all know they will have to give up a kings ransom to do that. NJ has no bench, and two players in RJ and Vince that are basically the same. I think the nets have to resolve how they are going to mesh these talents. To think the nets are one player away from contending may be a stretch. I think the knicks have a big window because of the growth still available of guys like Ariza, sweetney, and crawford, plus our two picks this year. And we still have a elite talent in marbs in his prime. I am curious to see what the nets do this offseason, it is obvious they have some holes, how they fill those holes will be interesting to follow for sure..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Knicksfan
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4/29/2005  1:06 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Kristic statline so far in the playoffs as a rookie:

19pts & 8rebs

sure he's their only frontcourt player but he's still a rookie and was drafted in the 40s after we took frank williams which again goes to show that with foreign bigs you are better off scouting them thoroughly and drafting one in the 2nd round and letting him develope in Europe for 2-3yrs like the Nets did with Kristic without eating away a roster spot while hindering his development. Much better than wasting a lottery pick on a potential bust.

So true! I wich we had a chance to make something like that this season. It would be nice that the NBA had a developmental league serving as a Triple A team where NBA franchise could call up the young player when they are ready and not harm their development on the bench...

At least Kristic came, we had Vujacic or something like that and never came to the US.
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Bonn1997
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4/30/2005  9:12 AM
Posted by fishmike:
I think the plan is to get younger and more athletic.
Thats what you want the plan to be. There is no indication from Isiah that the direction he wanted to go in. If it was he wouldnt have extended KT for 4 years, rather look to move him when his deal expires. He wouldnt have signed Vin Baker for 2 years and $8mm. He wouldnt have traded for Mo Taylor or Malik Rose. Getting younger and building a real core of players would be nice, but we have indication thats the route we are going.
Like I said, 90% (not 100%) of Isiah's decisions have appeared consistent with the plan of getting younger and more athletic. Why is it so hard now for you to consider the possibility that the Vin Baker deal was an implicit part of the Jamal Crawford deal (as was reported)? If you believe papers, Isiah did look very hard to move Kurt many times. But more importantly, you can have a plan of getting younger and more athletic WITHOUT every trade bringing in younger more athletic players. You still need good veterans who compliment the young athletes. The Malik Rose comment is just crazy. You realize he made the trade to get 2 1st rd draft picks, right? Your comment is like saying that he wouldn't have traded to get Penny Hardaway if the plan was to get more athletic (while conveniently forgetting that some PG named Marbury was part of the deal). I bet at least one (if not both) of the draft picks yields us a player more athletic than Nazy.
Marv
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5/1/2005  6:23 PM
HA!!!!!

Those slack-jawed jism-guzzling cum-drunk nets got swept, the chumps!!!! Carter goes a big 6-for-22!!!! Sports fans, let's take a moment to rejoice!!!!!
MaTT4281
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5/1/2005  6:25 PM
Did my eyes good to watch the Nets get swept. Hopefully the few Net fans around here will shut up until next October.
DarkKnicks
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5/1/2005  6:47 PM
Yes! The Nets are OUT!
Knicksfan
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5/1/2005  6:58 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:

Yes! The Nets are OUT!

Knicks_Fan
tkf
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5/1/2005  7:04 PM
vince carter shot 6-22 in a elimination game, if crawford did that, he would get tarred and feathered on this site.... Is anyone going to hold vince accountable?

Nets get swept... that makes my day..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
rojasmas
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5/1/2005  7:27 PM
The great J Kidd had a crappy series and Damon Jones more than held his own. Wade was dominant and the Heat swept the "just another bad team", the Nets. Okay, maybe they were just another mediocre team but their season offically lasted about a week longer than the Knicks. Get out your golf clubs Jason. Fore!
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Marv
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5/1/2005  7:32 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

The great J Kidd had a crappy series and Damon Jones more than held his own. Wade was dominant and the Heat swept the "just another bad team", the Nets. Okay, maybe they were just another mediocre team but their season offically lasted about a week longer than the Knicks. Get out your golf clubs Jason. Fore!

HA!!
tkf
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5/1/2005  7:32 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

The great J Kidd had a crappy series and Damon Jones more than held his own. Wade was dominant and the Heat swept the "just another bad team", the Nets. Okay, maybe they were just another mediocre team but their season offically lasted about a week longer than the Knicks. Get out your golf clubs Jason. Fore!

yea, fore is right.... ahahaha.. anyway did you hear alonzo mourning just rip the nets organization.. Well I guess there is one person who doesn't think the nets organaztion is so great...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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5/1/2005  11:55 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Kristic statline so far in the playoffs as a rookie:

19pts & 8rebs

sure he's their only frontcourt player but he's still a rookie and was drafted in the 40s after we took frank williams which again goes to show that with foreign bigs you are better off scouting them thoroughly and drafting one in the 2nd round and letting him develope in Europe for 2-3yrs like the Nets did with Kristic without eating away a roster spot while hindering his development. Much better than wasting a lottery pick on a potential bust.

The Nets took Kristic with the 24th pick in the first round, 1 pick BEFORE we took Frank Williams.
Killa4luv
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5/2/2005  12:07 AM
What will these hypocritical sports writers say about Jason Kidd now? He had a wide open shot to win game 3 and bricked it. He called the knicks another bad team and he got swept in the 1st round, I would just like to read one article where there is 1 negative word uttered about Kidd. They should call up Staph and ask what he thought about that series and J. Kidd.
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