OG I think is evolving a bit and hitting a wall at times. He got fouled, but he put a spin move on Stewart in the paint last night and got to the rim. I never saw him do that. They are also trying to get him to trap his man on a mismatch more. He is eager to pass the ball out and does that very well, but I think the team wants him to work his defender more.

he is a work horse and perhaps needs less minutes. Perhaps all these are adding up.

Nalod wrote:
As Clyde said, the shots were short and he alluded we might be tired on the back end of a back to back........
Seems like Precious really wants to score and is slow to make the reads on defense. This was his issue in Toronto.

OG I think is evolving a bit and hitting a wall at times. He got fouled, but he put a spin move on Stewart in the paint last night and got to the rim. I never saw him do that. They are also trying to get him to trap his man on a mismatch more. He is eager to pass the ball out and does that very well, but I think the team wants him to work his defender more.

he is a work horse and perhaps needs less minutes. Perhaps all these are adding up.

OG is incredibly frustrating.

On some occasions you have him posting and mauling guys with beautiful drop steps or spin moves into strong layups or dunks.

On some occasions he looks like a new born horse - barely able to stand, can't stick a fork in the ball and seemingly weaker defenders easily stripping the ball away from him.

The luster of early season OG has slowly dissolved into very concerning very inconsistent OG where you are not sure if he is Kawai or Mitch.

Worst case is both he and Bridges D has been MEH --- OG more recently and Bridges all year.

Nalod wrote:
As Clyde said, the shots were short and he alluded we might be tired on the back end of a back to back........
Seems like Precious really wants to score and is slow to make the reads on defense. This was his issue in Toronto.

OG I think is evolving a bit and hitting a wall at times. He got fouled, but he put a spin move on Stewart in the paint last night and got to the rim. I never saw him do that. They are also trying to get him to trap his man on a mismatch more. He is eager to pass the ball out and does that very well, but I think the team wants him to work his defender more.

he is a work horse and perhaps needs less minutes. Perhaps all these are adding up.

I've been disappointed with Precious play and I can't tell how much of it is getting back into flow or playing small ball C - doesn't seem like that is a good fit for him either - or whatnot. He has not performed yet and should be doing more or taking advantage of his opportunity more.

martin wrote:I enjoyed watching this game, even in the loss, and same as with the Washington games too. Those young guys on both opposing teams are fun to catch.

Yeah I think Cade should have gotten call for an offensive foul shoving off Brunson but this guy is a monster in the making. He hasn't had a great run of health before this season and now you really see him coming on. He has great touch and a perfect looking shot. Really good court vision, nice handles and ideal size. He's gonna be a really great player.

The Thompson twins are impressive too. Ausar mucked up 2 plays at the end of the game that won the Pistons the game as much as the Beasley 3s. Both are on the pick and pop with Brunson and KAT- the bread and butter of our offense. He deflects the pass and causes the turnover (KAT still reaching for the ball got his finger tip on it - big challenge one by Detroit). Then he perfectly baits/sells the moving screen on KAT. Those are two situations where the Knicks were about to steal the momentum or take a bigger hold on the game with a bucket and he breaks up both plays. Good on the Kid for making 2 big defensive plays on the Knicks 2 man game/bread and butter offense.

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:I enjoyed watching this game, even in the loss, and same as with the Washington games too. Those young guys on both opposing teams are fun to catch.

Yeah I think Cade should have gotten call for an offensive foul shoving off Brunson but this guy is a monster in the making. He hasn't had a great run of health before this season and now you really see him coming on. He has great touch and a perfect looking shot. Really good court vision, nice handles and ideal size. He's gonna be a really great player.

The Thompson twins are impressive too. Ausar mucked up 2 plays at the end of the game that won the Pistons the game as much as the Beasley 3s. Both are on the pick and pop with Brunson and KAT- the bread and butter of our offense. He deflects the pass and causes the turnover (KAT still reaching for the ball got his finger tip on it - big challenge one by Detroit). Then he perfectly baits/sells the moving screen on KAT. Those are two situations where the Knicks were about to steal the momentum or take a bigger hold on the game with a bucket and he breaks up both plays. Good on the Kid for making 2 big defensive plays on the Knicks 2 man game/bread and butter offense.

I don't understand this level of call-making. Either let guys play or stop the with ticky tack stuff. There were some god awful blatant calls where the whistle was not blown but would have if KAT made the same.

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NBATV/status/1879000769963176060

Perfect example of Thibs defense. So scared of the drive you give 2 wide open 3 in 2025. The year where teams are probably the best at shooting them in the history of the game. Sorry but this 90s defense will not work in this new NBA. Teams are too good at hitting open shots now.

Not sure it was“scared of the drive”. Maybe more like scared of man to man.
On both plays the wings (JB) jammed the high elbows with double teams instead of staying back and playing good man to man defense. Which resulted in a swing pass and rotations on defense. Which I have said for a while that KAT and JB are not good at. Maybe Thibs call or guys knowing JB cannot stop Beasley or Cade man to man. Just don’t see why they needed to panic with 46 left and leave the weak side wide open. Especially when it was a hot shooter.

My take this game though was that we missed way too many wide open threes. Especially in key moments . They didn’t. Also, when Pistons went to a zone, we showed once again that we don’t have the passing or strategy to attack it. How do you not put a big man in the middle? KAT is a great passer but they kept him by the three point stripe? Everyone knows passing to the middle is a great way to attack the zone. Instead it was JB high dribble offense? JB -12. Highest on tram I believe and still wants to force drives into a zone. (Which he hit a lot of tough shots) Instead of running an offense to attack it. Smh

Still Pistons have a lot of good young players. CAP of 126 and lots of picks. They just wanted it more last night and hit big shots. We didn’t.
Knicks know that EVERY team is going to want it more when playing in the Mecca. Need to match that energy an effort every night.

Hart over commits on Hardaway. Brunson recovers back to Hardaway so there was no need for Hart to overcommit. Hart should have stunted at Hardaway which would have caused Tim to hesitate and give Brunson time to recover and would have allowed Hart to recover to Beasley to make a much better contest if not stop him from shooting at all. I would much rather live with a Hardaway mid range floater with Brunson on his right hip, rather than a wide open 3 from Beasley.

Brunson has got to know to move off of Cade when/if Mikal comes over or after Mikal is in a good enough position. Brunson sticks around too long and is then useless, which means Hart has a decision. As soon as Hart makes a decision, Brunson should be recovering to the middle so that KAT can get onto Beasley, Mitch would have gotten there.

It's the second and third rotations that are killing the Knicks, JB and KAT in particular IMHO

Its not just that, Cade shoves Brunson off the play. The first time Brunson recovers enough to get close to Hardaway, but Hart already committed to Hardaway, who ends up doubled and Beasley is open. The 2nd play, Cade even more demonstratively shoves Brunson away (IMO offensive foul as much as KAT's moving screen) and Brunson is completely out of the action in the spot he ends up in.

Rather than have Brunson double I think I would have preferred to funnel the play to have Cade drive towards OG. Probably leaves Harris open int he corner or maybe Cade gets off a shot, but OG help/recover is often our best defensive option.

Now I contend Hart should have hedged at Timmy and made him take it instead of leaving Beasley a 2nd time. You do it the first time and get beat, but are you really gonna do it a 2nd time? I assume the plays calls for KAT making the rotation to Beasley faster - but do you really want KAT to make a scramble rotation for Beasley and put him in a place where he's not gonna get the rebound? I don't think that's good strategy.

Anyway - I feel like after Beasley hits 7s on you in the first game and 4 in the first half, a defensive coverage that's most likely result is leaving Beasley open in the corner off rotation just doesn't make sense. And we let it happen twice in the same 45 seconds. I don't feel like Thibs+staff had the right plan in place for most of the game to defend the Pistons.

Yeah I should have been more clear about which play I was referring to, just the second instance not the first.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1879214848397201752

martin wrote:I enjoyed watching this game, even in the loss, and same as with the Washington games too. Those young guys on both opposing teams are fun to catch.

I like watching other teams on League Pass against other teams --- watching Knicks continued MEH effort defensively and seemingly never able to get a stop --- NO FUN AT ALL FOR ME. Puts me to sleep to a degree....no intensity...played like a pre-season game.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:I enjoyed watching this game, even in the loss, and same as with the Washington games too. Those young guys on both opposing teams are fun to catch.

Yeah I think Cade should have gotten call for an offensive foul shoving off Brunson but this guy is a monster in the making. He hasn't had a great run of health before this season and now you really see him coming on. He has great touch and a perfect looking shot. Really good court vision, nice handles and ideal size. He's gonna be a really great player.

The Thompson twins are impressive too. Ausar mucked up 2 plays at the end of the game that won the Pistons the game as much as the Beasley 3s. Both are on the pick and pop with Brunson and KAT- the bread and butter of our offense. He deflects the pass and causes the turnover (KAT still reaching for the ball got his finger tip on it - big challenge one by Detroit). Then he perfectly baits/sells the moving screen on KAT. Those are two situations where the Knicks were about to steal the momentum or take a bigger hold on the game with a bucket and he breaks up both plays. Good on the Kid for making 2 big defensive plays on the Knicks 2 man game/bread and butter offense.

I don't understand this level of call-making. Either let guys play or stop the with ticky tack stuff. There were some god awful blatant calls where the whistle was not blown but would have if KAT made the same.

It seems that refs don't care for Kat and he does himself/us no favors with many of his stupid, dunderheaded moves and his constant whining.

I agree he's not getting appropriate whistle but refs don't care for his baloney and he gives them at least 2 or 3 easy calls each night.

The late illegal screen -- thought Brunson went early on that before Kat could set but Kat responsibility for creating more space to get set. Can't call that screen but allow Cade to throw Jalen off him with forearm shove but this is the NBA as we've always known it.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:
As Clyde said, the shots were short and he alluded we might be tired on the back end of a back to back........
Seems like Precious really wants to score and is slow to make the reads on defense. This was his issue in Toronto.

OG I think is evolving a bit and hitting a wall at times. He got fouled, but he put a spin move on Stewart in the paint last night and got to the rim. I never saw him do that. They are also trying to get him to trap his man on a mismatch more. He is eager to pass the ball out and does that very well, but I think the team wants him to work his defender more.

he is a work horse and perhaps needs less minutes. Perhaps all these are adding up.

I've been disappointed with Precious play and I can't tell how much of it is getting back into flow or playing small ball C - doesn't seem like that is a good fit for him either - or whatnot. He has not performed yet and should be doing more or taking advantage of his opportunity more.

Been disappointed with P as well but I tend to think it's an overall team thing.

Last year down the stretch we were all in sync - hard nosed and scrapping. This team with both Brunson/Kat on the floor as well as finesse player Bridges is the antithesis of hard nosed and scrappy.

The unit as a whole is not playing well -- as noted I think by Hahn last night --- teams just don't feel us and they are comfortable on offense.

We could blame lack of athleticism BUT Pistons beat us down the stretch with Harris, Beasley, THJ (3 average athletes in 30s) and 6'8" (somewhat lumbering) I-Stewart on the court and we were still overwhelmed with wingstop non-existent, Josh always lost and Jalen/Kat doing nothing defensively.

IMO the biggest difference is this offseason we traded (lost) grit and defensive tenacity for increased offensive capabilities and it so far hasn't resulted in that much improvement. Last years team beats the Pistons last night simply because are defense was much better overall. Yes last years team didn't possess the ability to beat OKC or Boston but we sure played more our style. Last year we were at 95% capacity for defense and toughness with 75% offensive capacity. This year we are more like 75% defense and 85% offensive capacity. SO when KAT is hot from deep we can outplay the differences but when the team is struggling offensively - we are not defensively strong enough to carry us through much of the time.

If the roster remains the same and we can't move either Bridges or Hart to the bench in some way to improve balance for the starters and reserves we only have Mitch to rely on to help save us. KAT has far exceeded what I thought he could offer us offensively - but he has not shown enough rim protection that this defensive unit absolutely needs to thrive like last year. You can't get out on the shooters well enough if you also don't protect the pain well. I suspect we would be better off if we had somehow been able to retain IHart and not sign KAT as he rotated much better.

Maybe starting Mitch next to KAT is the only way we can resume our defensive ways while taking a slight hit offensively.