Stuna117 wrote:Grimes was much better last season, I don’t want to give up on him too quick. I think he will benefit with more consistent minutes and playing time. I would love to extend him on the cheap. I think having him start and Donte off the bench is the best use of our players without any other moves being made. The spacing without RJ in the starting lineup is so much better.

I like Grimes but he's been a relative disappointment after flashing some really good signs early in his career. DDV is showing that he should be able to produce offensively in his starting role and he has just been unable to do so. I think the FO has shifted away from patience and development that we saw them exhibit for the last 3 years. I think they are going win now mode and going to try and capitalize on the Brunson/Randle duo along with their in-their-prime supporting cast. I would say Grimes, Sims, Deuce are all trade bait along with Fournier's expiring and our picks to get another player by the deadline.

DLeethal wrote:

Stuna117 wrote:Grimes was much better last season, I don’t want to give up on him too quick. I think he will benefit with more consistent minutes and playing time. I would love to extend him on the cheap. I think having him start and Donte off the bench is the best use of our players without any other moves being made. The spacing without RJ in the starting lineup is so much better.

I like Grimes but he's been a relative disappointment after flashing some really good signs early in his career. DDV is showing that he should be able to produce offensively in his starting role and he has just been unable to do so. I think the FO has shifted away from patience and development that we saw them exhibit for the last 3 years. I think they are going win now mode and going to try and capitalize on the Brunson/Randle duo along with their in-their-prime supporting cast. I would say Grimes, Sims, Deuce are all trade bait along with Fournier's expiring and our picks to get another player by the deadline.

I disagree on Grimes. His shot form is to good and always looks the same. You extend him and retain him as an asset. He is a late bloomer.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:But yeah, it’ll be Malcolm in the end

I’m with you on Murray. Adding Brogdon would be solid though , especially since he’s a big expiring contract next year to use in a deal. My concern is we would be tight in the rotation again without a lot of minutes to go around, unless Grimes is traded for Brogdon.

No trading Grimes for Brodgan. And tight minutes in rotation is a good problem.

Yes it can be a good problem. Maybe we can get our old friend Burks on the cheap back from Detroit. He’s an upcoming free agent. He’s been bad this year but he can give us a solid 15 mpg of offense.

Like it!

MS wrote:
Bogdanovic - shooting and spacing

DeRozan - elite / kills spacing and takes grimes out of equation but would make use tough to beat if minutes are staggered

Tyus - elite playmaking off the bench would take a first rounder for an expiring, but could reduce Brunson load

Caruso - likely would cost McBride and a 1st and 2nd, not much offense, but would give Knicks the best defense in the league

Clarkson - low percentage player, good contract and can score in bunches and win a playoff game

Or best case scenario, Grimes realizes he has a first step starts looking at the basket everytime he touches it and starts attacking and playmaking which he has in him…

Seeing Bogdo taking time to assimilate. He likes his shots so how does he balance team play?

Like the idea of having another end of game finisher in DeRozan.
See the difference Randle can be with JB on the court. Those two would benefit from having one more.
If we look at Minny game, JB was off and not for Randle we lose that game. Having DeRozan would have helped take some pressure off.

Like Tyus. Maybe a second rounder gets it done?

Caruso is a good glue guy but redundant with Devo and JHart.

Mentioned on other threads that Clarkson cost would be too high and he is best off the bench.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:hard pass on Brogdon and Clarkson.

we just cleared the logjam and some want to create it again? I mean for someone like DJ I could understand, but for older, expensive, injury prone players?

Let Grimes play this season out, we aren't winning it all this year anyway.

Re-evaluate at seasons end, and if anything maybe bring Rokas over, or draft someone.

Don't think in terms of what is left on just this season or minutes crunch. It's more about what the Knicks FO will do to move Fournier to make use of that asset.

Clarkson on a very nice contract for 2 more years. Malcolm is movable again. Knicks need a ball handler/PG type off bench, I wouldn't get caught up in minutes.

What's Ainge's price for Clarkson. Kid can score and would be good off the bench but believe Ainge
would want starter assets.
Concern with Brogdon is that he is a 31 year old who may be a wrong step away from being out for the season. Maybe worth the risk seeing we can use a 6moy with IQ exit.

That's the crux of it. Ainge has to act like an adult.

HofstraBBall wrote:

VDesai wrote:McBride getting an extension right away and the timing of the trade to me means that Thibs told the front office that he's ready to play regularly. We know Deuce has no lack of confidence and can hound the ball defensively. He has a bit of a mid range shot and he's looked better shooting the 3 lately. I think we have to watch how it plays out with him. I don't think Thibs would have been ready to give up IQ if not for Deuce.

Or.....he was extended to make future money work in a trade?

yeah, I read it as both possibilities. And more the later.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

we got rid of TWO high usage scorers, I think theres room for and probably a need for a 3rd scorer that can create. DJ solves alot for us right now, he didn't make so much sense before but he fits this team well.

He also led the league in deflections 2 years ago, he's long and like DDV will get into the passing lanes.

I don't see us trading for older players and nuetering Grimes again nor should we.

I think Flynn was bought in as that emergency ball handler for now, and he could end up taking Miles spot if Miles doesn't step up.

I get your point. The sweet spot is finding a 15 mpg backup who is competent to run an offense. Not necessarily someone who is going to play off ball or eat into Grimes/DDV mins. If Brunson goes down for 2 weeks this team is in serious trouble right now IMO.

Although I am still fine getting a guy like Brogdon or Tyus Jones. Jones is honestly the perfect prototype player I am thinking of.

Grimes truthfully hasn't earned guaranteed heavy minutes. You probably would trade him if you are going after Brogdon anyway.

if we trade Grimes for DJ then the minutes are available.

you need that 3rd scorer come playoff time, especially with Randle's struggles. And you need that 3rd creator.

DJ put up 23ppg against MIA in the playoffs last year, he's the only guy that could provide any insurance for a Brunson injury.

Concern is, why is it not working in ATL? You would think that's great on paper as well.
He likes the ball in his hand. Not the case in ATL nor would it be here with JB.
He is the elite creator we need? Three point efficiency?

Still a fan and honestly would not complain if we pulled it off but just concerns I have.
May prefer rolling with my man Devo. Great fit this far. And hope Grimes, JHart hold second unit down.

May be a case of small improvements a better option at optimizing returns.
Back up C, vet back up PG and vet scorer off the bench.
Like idea of Collins, Bones, Brogdon, Tyus and even Demar if not too costly.

Because of Trae. Trae needs the ball in his hands and is not a good off ball guy (in the way Brunson can be), and that takes the ball out of Dejounte's hands.

And then Dejounte has to guard big SG's, which he can, but he is better with the smaller, quicker PG type dudes.

Me? I ask the FO and staff what they think of Grimes. They give up on his potential? Cuz this kid can shoot, run, and penetrate. He can't finish at the rim and seems to spazz making decisions. Why has he regressed?
Trades are easy fixes in make believe land.
Im thinking soon Grimes gets his mojo back and starts. DDV is great energy guy off the bench with Hart.
Why did we extend Deuce? To trade him? Can we?
Who gets bought out soon? Gordan Haywood?
Trade value for Bojan? off the bench stretch4? Detroit is reeling and they need vets. Why give him up? To satisfy our fandom pages?
what do we offer them that can help them now? Evan? if so, do it. He a vet that can shoot.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

we got rid of TWO high usage scorers, I think theres room for and probably a need for a 3rd scorer that can create. DJ solves alot for us right now, he didn't make so much sense before but he fits this team well.

He also led the league in deflections 2 years ago, he's long and like DDV will get into the passing lanes.

I don't see us trading for older players and nuetering Grimes again nor should we.

I think Flynn was bought in as that emergency ball handler for now, and he could end up taking Miles spot if Miles doesn't step up.

I get your point. The sweet spot is finding a 15 mpg backup who is competent to run an offense. Not necessarily someone who is going to play off ball or eat into Grimes/DDV mins. If Brunson goes down for 2 weeks this team is in serious trouble right now IMO.

Although I am still fine getting a guy like Brogdon or Tyus Jones. Jones is honestly the perfect prototype player I am thinking of.

Grimes truthfully hasn't earned guaranteed heavy minutes. You probably would trade him if you are going after Brogdon anyway.

if we trade Grimes for DJ then the minutes are available.

you need that 3rd scorer come playoff time, especially with Randle's struggles. And you need that 3rd creator.

DJ put up 23ppg against MIA in the playoffs last year, he's the only guy that could provide any insurance for a Brunson injury.

Concern is, why is it not working in ATL? You would think that's great on paper as well.
He likes the ball in his hand. Not the case in ATL nor would it be here with JB.
He is the elite creator we need? Three point efficiency?

Still a fan and honestly would not complain if we pulled it off but just concerns I have.
May prefer rolling with my man Devo. Great fit this far. And hope Grimes, JHart hold second unit down.

May be a case of small improvements a better option at optimizing returns.
Back up C, vet back up PG and vet scorer off the bench.
Like idea of Collins, Bones, Brogdon, Tyus and even Demar if not too costly.

Because of Trae. Trae needs the ball in his hands and is not a good off ball guy (in the way Brunson can be), and that takes the ball out of Dejounte's hands.

And then Dejounte has to guard big SG's, which he can, but he is better with the smaller, quicker PG type dudes.

I guess I’m not clear on why everyone is criticizing Murray - his #’s all look solid to me and I’ve already watched him completely blow up a Knicks game defensively just last year.

From Hawks record perspective that franchise has always been a bit wonky and has rarely ever defended. They took 2 key pieces Heurter/Collins off that fresh young team Knicks choked against 3years ago. I think there issue may be they don’t have Thibs and they are lacking an identity.

Bring Murray here and identify/ framework is already in place. He’d come in score some points, give our athleticism a boost, pass the ball and defend. He also replaces IQ.

Oh, I am 100% with this.

I like Dujounte off the bench as your main guy with ball in hands.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

we got rid of TWO high usage scorers, I think theres room for and probably a need for a 3rd scorer that can create. DJ solves alot for us right now, he didn't make so much sense before but he fits this team well.

He also led the league in deflections 2 years ago, he's long and like DDV will get into the passing lanes.

I don't see us trading for older players and nuetering Grimes again nor should we.

I think Flynn was bought in as that emergency ball handler for now, and he could end up taking Miles spot if Miles doesn't step up.

I get your point. The sweet spot is finding a 15 mpg backup who is competent to run an offense. Not necessarily someone who is going to play off ball or eat into Grimes/DDV mins. If Brunson goes down for 2 weeks this team is in serious trouble right now IMO.

Although I am still fine getting a guy like Brogdon or Tyus Jones. Jones is honestly the perfect prototype player I am thinking of.

Grimes truthfully hasn't earned guaranteed heavy minutes. You probably would trade him if you are going after Brogdon anyway.

if we trade Grimes for DJ then the minutes are available.

you need that 3rd scorer come playoff time, especially with Randle's struggles. And you need that 3rd creator.

DJ put up 23ppg against MIA in the playoffs last year, he's the only guy that could provide any insurance for a Brunson injury.

Concern is, why is it not working in ATL? You would think that's great on paper as well.
He likes the ball in his hand. Not the case in ATL nor would it be here with JB.
He is the elite creator we need? Three point efficiency?

Still a fan and honestly would not complain if we pulled it off but just concerns I have.
May prefer rolling with my man Devo. Great fit this far. And hope Grimes, JHart hold second unit down.

May be a case of small improvements a better option at optimizing returns.
Back up C, vet back up PG and vet scorer off the bench.
Like idea of Collins, Bones, Brogdon, Tyus and even Demar if not too costly.

Because of Trae. Trae needs the ball in his hands and is not a good off ball guy (in the way Brunson can be), and that takes the ball out of Dejounte's hands.

And then Dejounte has to guard big SG's, which he can, but he is better with the smaller, quicker PG type dudes.

JB"s climb to possible 1A has been due to his ability to have the ball in his hand, take advantage of mid court pivot game and increase role from what he was in Dallas. AKA a spot up shooter to heavier ball handler in Luka.

So why put him back in that position?

I'm not. I think they can strike a nice balance, especially if one of those guys who has the initial DJM comes off the bench as a 6th man.

Earl, Clyde.

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:DJ is really the guy that makes sense if we are making another trade this year.

He's a guy that has averaged over 9apg playing PG, has been all NBA defense, and can of course handle the ball.

If his improved 3pt shot is legit and Thibs can get him back to being all defense he could be a huge addition.

Part of me wants a legit bench player after seeing the free flowing ball movement/cutting of the first unit with DDV and OG. Adding another pounder to the starters just puts RJ back there on offense.

we got rid of TWO high usage scorers, I think theres room for and probably a need for a 3rd scorer that can create. DJ solves alot for us right now, he didn't make so much sense before but he fits this team well.

He also led the league in deflections 2 years ago, he's long and like DDV will get into the passing lanes.

I don't see us trading for older players and nuetering Grimes again nor should we.

I think Flynn was bought in as that emergency ball handler for now, and he could end up taking Miles spot if Miles doesn't step up.

I get your point. The sweet spot is finding a 15 mpg backup who is competent to run an offense. Not necessarily someone who is going to play off ball or eat into Grimes/DDV mins. If Brunson goes down for 2 weeks this team is in serious trouble right now IMO.

Although I am still fine getting a guy like Brogdon or Tyus Jones. Jones is honestly the perfect prototype player I am thinking of.

Grimes truthfully hasn't earned guaranteed heavy minutes. You probably would trade him if you are going after Brogdon anyway.

if we trade Grimes for DJ then the minutes are available.

you need that 3rd scorer come playoff time, especially with Randle's struggles. And you need that 3rd creator.

DJ put up 23ppg against MIA in the playoffs last year, he's the only guy that could provide any insurance for a Brunson injury.

Concern is, why is it not working in ATL? You would think that's great on paper as well.
He likes the ball in his hand. Not the case in ATL nor would it be here with JB.
He is the elite creator we need? Three point efficiency?

Still a fan and honestly would not complain if we pulled it off but just concerns I have.
May prefer rolling with my man Devo. Great fit this far. And hope Grimes, JHart hold second unit down.

May be a case of small improvements a better option at optimizing returns.
Back up C, vet back up PG and vet scorer off the bench.
Like idea of Collins, Bones, Brogdon, Tyus and even Demar if not too costly.

Because of Trae. Trae needs the ball in his hands and is not a good off ball guy (in the way Brunson can be), and that takes the ball out of Dejounte's hands.

And then Dejounte has to guard big SG's, which he can, but he is better with the smaller, quicker PG type dudes.

JB"s climb to possible 1A has been due to his ability to have the ball in his hand, take advantage of mid court pivot game and increase role from what he was in Dallas. AKA a spot up shooter to heavier ball handler in Luka.

So why put him back in that position?

I'm not. I think they can strike a nice balance, especially if one of those guys who has the initial DJM comes off the bench as a 6th man.

Earl, Clyde.