EwingPSD wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Watched the highlights of Obi in preseason. You can tell they've already embraced him, and will be looking to get him going this season.

3 basket hanging dunks and a three. His offensive game has really evolved.

His offense as a starter doesn’t look too bad.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=what+are+obi+toppin%27s+wins+and+losses+when+starting

I’m curious to see if he’ll be able to step it up on defense. For example, I think Randle will maul and appall Obi.

Notice that no one has posted any Obi Toppin defensive highlights. This team will definitely miss his athleticism and movement without the ball. Hali and TJ will definitely find him off-cuts for easy baskets. But he still looks weak in defense and the boards. I'm not sure his scoring will be enough to offset the points he gives up.

99% of highlights happen on offense. That said Toppin has a big challenge ahead of him on defense. The Pacers don't over-help like us. They switch a lot, stay home, and try to limit 3s. That means more individual responsibility. As for rebounding, occasionally he'll get pushed under by the monsters that push just about everyone under sometimes but he'll generally be fine. The Knicks rebounded well with him on the floor all 3 years and no one mentioned his rebounding until year 3 when he was shooting the 3 well and still not playing. He'll be asked to grab a couple more in Indy b/c they aren't as good a rebounding team and he probably will.

Obi's rebounding has always been bad. He has a total rebounding rate of 11% and an averages 7 rebounds per 36 minutes for his career. The point about Indiana not over helping doesn't really change my view on Obi's defense since he's bad at help and man to man defense too. I would give Obi the benefit the doubt on the physical matchups, but he also fails to move his feet on the perimeter. Indiana not helping as much may expose Obi even more. His strength is scoring and he will have to do so on a high clip to justify a spot in the starting lineup.

What was bad about it? the Knicks did not have a poor def rebounding % when he played or get beat up on the offensive glass. Honestly, I think the rebounding #s you are posting are pointless. He is not a ball handler and was the team's best floor runner. Having him collect an excess of defensive rebounds on the Knicks would not have helped the team. They didn't have a rebounding issue. I think he will probably rebound more in Indy b/c they need him to.

I think defending in Indy will be more challenging than it was here. He won't have as many good defenders around him and he will have less help. In NY he was serviceable but was so with a lot of help. It will be interesting to see if he can be in a different system.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Watched the highlights of Obi in preseason. You can tell they've already embraced him, and will be looking to get him going this season.

3 basket hanging dunks and a three. His offensive game has really evolved.

His offense as a starter doesn’t look too bad.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=what+are+obi+toppin%27s+wins+and+losses+when+starting

I’m curious to see if he’ll be able to step it up on defense. For example, I think Randle will maul and appall Obi.

Notice that no one has posted any Obi Toppin defensive highlights. This team will definitely miss his athleticism and movement without the ball. Hali and TJ will definitely find him off-cuts for easy baskets. But he still looks weak in defense and the boards. I'm not sure his scoring will be enough to offset the points he gives up.

99% of highlights happen on offense. That said Toppin has a big challenge ahead of him on defense. The Pacers don't over-help like us. They switch a lot, stay home, and try to limit 3s. That means more individual responsibility. As for rebounding, occasionally he'll get pushed under by the monsters that push just about everyone under sometimes but he'll generally be fine. The Knicks rebounded well with him on the floor all 3 years and no one mentioned his rebounding until year 3 when he was shooting the 3 well and still not playing. He'll be asked to grab a couple more in Indy b/c they aren't as good a rebounding team and he probably will.

Obi's rebounding has always been bad. He has a total rebounding rate of 11% and an averages 7 rebounds per 36 minutes for his career. The point about Indiana not over helping doesn't really change my view on Obi's defense since he's bad at help and man to man defense too. I would give Obi the benefit the doubt on the physical matchups, but he also fails to move his feet on the perimeter. Indiana not helping as much may expose Obi even more. His strength is scoring and he will have to do so on a high clip to justify a spot in the starting lineup.

What was bad about it? the Knicks did not have a poor def rebounding % when he played or get beat up on the offensive glass. Honestly, I think the rebounding #s you are posting are pointless. He is not a ball handler and was the team's best floor runner. Having him collect an excess of defensive rebounds on the Knicks would not have helped the team. They didn't have a rebounding issue. I think he will probably rebound more in Indy b/c they need him to.

I think defending in Indy will be more challenging than it was here. He won't have as many good defenders around him and he will have less help. In NY he was serviceable but was so with a lot of help. It will be interesting to see if he can be in a different system.

Obi ranked 247 out of all forwards last season. That number jumps to 127 when filtered down to only bench players. Cole Anthony had a higher percentage. Obi's rebounding numbers were bad. We'll see if that was a product of our "system."

That passes the eye test. Don't recall seeing Toppin scrapping for rebounds very often, if ever. More often saw him both hanging at the 3point line and releasing early on the fast break. Shooting 3s (58% of his shots were 3s) or dunking it (28% of his shots were from 0-3 feet). Not really conducive to getting rebounds.

I don't think we traded Obi because of his shortcomings. I think we traded him because he requested a trade. And he requested his trade out of frustration with Coach T. It is what it is and we move on.

EwingsGlass wrote:Don’t look now, but Toppin is getting real minutes in Indiana. He’s leading the league in FG% while taking about 5 3 pointers a game. His rebounds and assists are low. Basically a finisher. But man, he is starting to percolate over there.

he's been getting real minutes all season, he's just playing better now. but he's far from leading the league in FG%, he's at 61%, the league leader is Poetle at 73%. He also put up two big games against a completely depleted MIA team that was missing BAM and 5 players and had zero interior presence.

Obi can score, that was never his issue, it's what else is he bringing? lots of big men can score and have been phased out because they couldn't do much else.

Nalod wrote:Mitch broke in season FG% a few years ago.
It was Wilt Chamberlin's.
Mitch is not Wilt. Stats tell a part of the story.
Obi is with a team that will utilize his talents better.
Obi's old team was more concerned about his deficits and thought the better.
In a sport of winners there must be a loser.
But trades sometimes have win-win's. Knicks are playing better earlier this season and defense is improved thus far.
That was our goal perhaps? Have to ask Thibs.
Indy is running and gunning. They too are doing better.
Thats why we traded obi. Moving on does not always present outcomes right away.
Curious to see if Indy resigns him and at what salary.
Good teams make tough calls. We are a good team. Getting to the next level is much harder.
Enjoy the ride fellas,

agreed, our defense and REBOUNDING is better with 6'4 DDV which is rather telling.

I'd be surprised if Obi didn't score 12-16ppg in IND. that team runs and guns and plays at literally an all time fast pace and has the best passing PG in the entire league.

the questions with him was always, can he defend? can he rebound? can he switch? can he protect the rim? can he space the floor?

The answer to all of the above has been no, so a guy like him has to be ELITE offensively to make up for the rest.

nycericanguy wrote:

Nalod wrote:Mitch broke in season FG% a few years ago.
It was Wilt Chamberlin's.
Mitch is not Wilt. Stats tell a part of the story.
Obi is with a team that will utilize his talents better.
Obi's old team was more concerned about his deficits and thought the better.
In a sport of winners there must be a loser.
But trades sometimes have win-win's. Knicks are playing better earlier this season and defense is improved thus far.
That was our goal perhaps? Have to ask Thibs.
Indy is running and gunning. They too are doing better.
Thats why we traded obi. Moving on does not always present outcomes right away.
Curious to see if Indy resigns him and at what salary.
Good teams make tough calls. We are a good team. Getting to the next level is much harder.
Enjoy the ride fellas,

agreed, our defense and REBOUNDING is better with 6'4 DDV which is rather telling.

I'd be surprised if Obi didn't score 12-16ppg in IND. that team runs and guns and plays at literally an all time fast pace and has the best passing PG in the entire league.

the questions with him was always, can he defend? can he rebound? can he switch? can he protect the rim? can he space the floor?

The answer to all of the above has been no, so a guy like him has to be ELITE offensively to make up for the rest.

It's not telling. DDV and Obi are not playing the same roles. The second unit is better defensively b/c Hart/Barrett is a better defensive combo than Toppin or Randle with RJ for Alec Burks. They are a better rebounding team this year b/c Mitch has hit a new level. None of this has anything to do with DDV. If neither he nor Toppin were here the team would still be even better defensively b/c Deuce, IQ, and Grimes are better than DDV on D and the team would still be better rebounding.

EwingsGlass wrote:Don’t look now, but Toppin is getting real minutes in Indiana. He’s leading the league in FG% while taking about 5 3 pointers a game. His rebounds and assists are low. Basically a finisher. But man, he is starting to percolate over there.

He owes the Knicks big time because they traded him to the ideal situation with the best young playmaker in the league and one of the best offenses in the league. A team that didn’t have an established PF and just wants to run. Just the perfect situation for him.

Knixkik wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Don’t look now, but Toppin is getting real minutes in Indiana. He’s leading the league in FG% while taking about 5 3 pointers a game. His rebounds and assists are low. Basically a finisher. But man, he is starting to percolate over there.

He owes the Knicks big time because they traded him to the ideal situation with the best young playmaker in the league and one of the best offenses in the league. A team that didn’t have an established PF and just wants to run. Just the perfect situation for him.

He doesn't owe the Knicks. Calling it a settled debt makes a little more sense

EwingPSD wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Don’t look now, but Toppin is getting real minutes in Indiana. He’s leading the league in FG% while taking about 5 3 pointers a game. His rebounds and assists are low. Basically a finisher. But man, he is starting to percolate over there.

He owes the Knicks big time because they traded him to the ideal situation with the best young playmaker in the league and one of the best offenses in the league. A team that didn’t have an established PF and just wants to run. Just the perfect situation for him.

He doesn't owe the Knicks. Calling it a settled debt makes a little more sense

What sort of debt ? The Knicks gave him away. They could have just kept him as a backup. Knicks didn’t do him dirty or anything. He walked into a backup role and never even had any competition for it. Knicks only rostered 2 PFs his entire time here. I get he was positionally blocked here but not every lottery pick should expect a red carpet treatment. Knicks did him a huge favor.

Knixkik wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Don’t look now, but Toppin is getting real minutes in Indiana. He’s leading the league in FG% while taking about 5 3 pointers a game. His rebounds and assists are low. Basically a finisher. But man, he is starting to percolate over there.

He owes the Knicks big time because they traded him to the ideal situation with the best young playmaker in the league and one of the best offenses in the league. A team that didn’t have an established PF and just wants to run. Just the perfect situation for him.

He doesn't owe the Knicks. Calling it a settled debt makes a little more sense

What sort of debt ? The Knicks gave him away. They could have just kept him as a backup. Knicks didn’t do him dirty or anything. He walked into a backup role and never even had any competition for it. Knicks only rostered 2 PFs his entire time here. I get he was positionally blocked here but not every lottery pick should expect a red carpet treatment. Knicks did him a huge favor.

When the Knicks selected Obi they were granted control over the first 4 years of his career. You don't have to like it but if a team selects a player in the draft lottery, that player performs pretty well and doesn't cause waves there is an expectation among players and agents across the league that the player will be given a legitimate opportunity. If you look at the list of players over the last 20 years that were selected top 10 the last 20 years and played less than Obi the best one was Jimmer and everyone was out of the league within 6 years. I am sorry but every lottery pick expects an opportunity.

About him being positionally blocked this thread restarted after a game where he both matched up with the traditional 3 that is a star and played small ball 5.