Rookie wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Rookie wrote:

stillafan wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:

you said Grimes was year two and combined him, I didn't I had it correct, the rest you posted is basic information i'm not debating?

They failed in their inheritance, you disagree, i'd love to hear how? Do I really need to type what they inherited in cap, players and picks? did you answer the question on what we got back in return for Noel, Rose, Kemba and Fourn(to date, seems like we need to add)?

I know the timelines, you got it right with Grimes, congrats, why not answer the question that has been posed, don't need a break i've discussed this for quite sometime now.

First moves, horrible

Leon by getting Jalen, Hart, and Ihart, made up for the first blunders, yes that's a good thing unlike our past GM's.

Now we wait for the next moves that to me will define their tenure with this franchise.

OK? If you disagree that they didn't do well, please educate me and let me know how, i'm all for it. I learn from being wrong, and don't take it personally.

thanks

Maybe we're moving somewhere?

Rose has been GM for 3 seasons 20-21, 21-22, 22-23.

What's been the Knicks record since he took over vs. the 3 or 7 years before?

Winning is what's important right? Not so important how we get there.

Would you agree the Knicks have been 80% better since Rose took over vs. the previous 3 years?

I'm happy to defend everything Rose has done since he took over, but that's only because he's shown himself to be way better at the GM gig than you or me.

ok good, i'm leaving this conversation, honestly I hope no one asks more on it lol. Time to move on and discuss our team, I may not have the 100% faith in this FO, but I do have faith and hope and I'm not getting any younger so hopefully before Jalen asks for a huge pay day after two more seasons, we can add to what we have.

I've also wondered what our FO thinks of Mitch/Ihart combo? What a great center tandem, but Ihart is a UFA after this season so an expiring and he came on last year. I know different topic but in line what our FO will do, it's a nice problem but I hope we don't lose Ihart for nothing, been a fan of his for a couple seasons now, actually wanted him before he was even available, I was pretty pleased with that pick and getting Jalen who I wanted since the draft.

Did you like him like him, or do you Briggs like him?

I will add that draft picks are assets. You can use them in several ways to improve your team. Drafting outside of the top 3 is like gambling and you need to have rotation minutes for your young players to improve. Using picks to either add a player or move salary is still managing assets. Micro analysing each individual, move without taking the whole complex plan and situation into account is just shouting into the wind. At the end of the day the results speak for themselves. We have increased the talent level on this team. We still have assets to continue to upgrade talent on this team. We are now considered a playoff team. We are no longer a national joke are are making an argument for more nationally televised games. We are on a stable steady path to growth. Whoever thought the Knicks and stable franchise would be used in the same sentence. Maybe try and see the forest from the trees and just enjoy the ride. We might make a big deal, we might do nothing more and either way we are still relevant to the playoff picture. Rose and Co are credited with this, gradyandrew has already given you all of the receipts. Now, I’m going to enjoy the beauty of the Blueridge Moutains while I’m still here so peace out.

i'm sorry for being a bit confused but you highlighted the last line with Jalen and went off elsewhere, i'm done with the elsewhere, I have no idea about others enjoyments but I sleep and eat Knicks since 1968 so i'd say i've enjoyed the ride, that don't mean I have to agree about the bumps in the road, right?

Jalen? What exactly are you asking if I liked him?

I was a huge Jalen fan while in college, always like his father. Wanted the Knicks to move up with their 36th pick to nab this kid in the draft.

When we traded KP I wanted jalen not DSJ back in that trade, this is documented in that other forum.

When we were at the deadline and Dallas wasn't extending Jalen for 12m, I was all over the Knicks trade thread pleading that Leon would trade a player with equal value money wise to make the trade and give Dallas their pick or if it took it picks back. I wanted him and would have extended him for 12m for a 4 year term because at the time that was his max extension price by league rules.

I liked him and of course like him now so much I was willing to include Mitch and one Dallas pick for Jalen at the deadline.

Hope that answered your question on Jalen, and guys that came over can vouch for all the above. He's a winner and how that went the way it did in the NBA was head scratching.

The Briggs reference you will get if you stick around through the season and participate in the draft thread. As far as the other bit, I’m am glad you aren’t in charge since you wanted to give up more assets in mock trade proposals than it actually cost us with sober management and patience.

I can debate that even today what would have been more assets or a better trade, simply saying 12m locked in for 4 years free's up a lot of cap to get another player in FA that summer. The pick means nothing, it actually had limited value, we had 19 and 21 and chose Grimes with #25. We could have simply picked Grimes at 21 and then the only thing we would have lost is Cam.
What we also would have had was our #13 pick, correct? I do not believe Mitch on the open market is worth a lottery pick but could be wrong but it's close enough to say, that what I would have given isn't as bad as what you portrayed in your reply. We'd also have Burks and I liked him a lot lol. But he had late first value as well.

I'm really not looking to debate but your comment well not sure why you even went there, if you want me to understand your reference or be able to answer probably why not just ask the direct question?

My point was trying to answer your perceptive question and I even asked if I have it right because honestly I have no idea? And to the point I was trying to explain how much a value Jalen as a player, you went into a different direction, kind of uncalled for imo.

After 5000 words, it still seems like you are confusing Rose's second offseason, when Kemba and Fournier we're brought in, with his first. I have been polite so far and rookie Dleethal and ewingsglass have given you polite write ups. The only face saving move you have left is just to admit what everyone already knows- you mixed up Rose's first and second offseasons. You trying to die on this hill isn't making any friends.

Now it appears your excuse for making a simple mistake is "Rose inherited a 4 seed." Rose brought in Obi IQ Burks and Noel while resigning Gibson and Peyton. Those 7 players along with picking up Bullock's option and the Derrick Rose trade we're the Knicks whole rotation once Robinson went down outside of Randle and RJ. When you say "inherited the team"- WTF are you talking about? and hired the coach!

Even basic facts like "signed Kemba to a 3 year contract" you can't get right. That doesn't fly here. You want to post on the UK you got to up your game! Start a new thread saying Rose's second offseason had some mistakes and we'll chat there. Please take the effort to visit basketball reference and other sites before you post because right now it looks like you don't know what you are talking about it and are too arrogant to take the hint when someone points out factual errors.

gradyandrew wrote:stillafan, no one wants to debate you because you can't get basic facts straight. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just so high on yourself that you refuse to reexamine your opinions when presented with facts that contradict whatever false narrative you told yourself.

After 5000 words, it still seems like you are confusing Rose's second offseason, when Kemba and Fournier we're brought in, with his first. I have been polite so far and rookie Dleethal and ewingsglass have given you polite write ups. The only face saving move you have left is just to admit what everyone already knows- you mixed up Rose's first and second offseasons. You trying to die on this hill isn't making any friends.

Now it appears your excuse for making a simple mistake is "Rose inherited a 4 seed." Rose brought in Obi IQ Burks and Noel while resigning Gibson and Peyton. Those 7 players along with picking up Bullock's option and the Derrick Rose trade we're the Knicks whole rotation once Robinson went down outside of Randle and RJ. When you say "inherited the team"- WTF are you talking about? and hired the coach!

Even basic facts like "signed Kemba to a 3 year contract" you can't get right. That doesn't fly here. You want to post on the UK you got to up your game! Start a new thread saying Rose's second offseason had some mistakes and we'll chat there. Please take the effort to visit basketball reference and other sites before you post because right now it looks like you don't know what you are talking about it and are too arrogant to take the hint when someone points out factual errors.

thanks for being polite, hate to see your bad side, J/K. BTW the Kemba thing well that small trivia, sorry but most had two years with the third a team option, so Kemba had two, I said the third was a team option, sue me lol.

I think your really reaching and looking for something that honestly isn't there, I'm 64 years old I don't troll, I stopped guys trolling on the other site, please don't make that accusation, it's really not warranted.

lets move on, you think we can do that, or do you guys say it then come back at the new guy constantly? Seriously i'm trying to move on, the basis was my grade of the FO is incomplete and it went hay wire.

stillafan wrote:It was a move to counter the first year's complete blunder, 63m in cap how on earth is Kemba, Fourn, Noel, Rose considered positive signings. I think Detroit says thank you because they got both players they wanted in the draft since they had cap space to absorb 3 players.

I'm not really sure how I'm "really reaching" or "mixing up basic facts" to point out the problem in this post.

I agree that it would have been nice to have used EF's salary slot to pursue DeRozan, but them's the breaks. Knicks had one of the top offenses with league average 3 point accuracy based off of top of the league 3 point attempts and offensive rebounding. Maybe those things don't happen with DeRozan on the squad. I'm happy to admit it when I'm wrong.

Alpha1971 wrote:Above, is what passed as normal conversation at the defunct PSD board on the thread I started earlier, Rookie said I was beating a dead horse so I left and stopped making my case. Yet, this is perfectly what I was talking about. If you engage at all it will continue. If you engage in anyway you will continue the pointless conversation for dozens of pages and nothing of any enjoyment is realized because the poster is deriving pleasure from your responses. Give em crickets or it will become the norm

Lol, it’s like talking to AI. ‘To rag on Leon Rose please push 1. To trade Julius Randle please push 2. To take credit for signing Jalen Brunson please press 3.

stillafan wrote:As the new guy let me apologize to the forum, this was not needed and it went off the deep end. I'd really like to move forward, hopefully you feel we can.

thanks

It’s called the school of hard knocks. You will learn in time. And for the record, all conversations go into the deep end, during the off season.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1683836365610557440

Rookie wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Rookie, you forgot to mention Evan Fournier wanted to sign here too, and Kemba 😂😆😂 how you forgot ?

Who? Never heard of them. I mean we desperately needed a PG and floor spacing…..I sometimes wonder how much influence WWW had on decisions early on. I think WWW and Thibs don’t get along much and if it’s true I totally get it. There’s no way they talked to Thibs about those signings. I mean come on, read the room. I’ll never forget Thibs playing Kemba 40+ minutes and then Kemba was broken. He didn’t make the same mistake with D Rose. Rose was his guy. I always cringed every time Rose hit the floor.

Fast forward to today and you can see Rose easily fixed his mistakes and the roster is improved. I’m glad we didn’t sign Lonzo Ball. The FA class of 2021/22 was pretty meh.

Total guess work but I don't think Thibs had much say in Toppin or Q being drafted. He had more say in year one's free agent signings but the team wasn't giving much more then one years. So Thibs had say but the potential choices were very limited. I think Thibs was likely on board with Evan (I anyone is Thib's boy its Steve Clifford) but totally blind sided by Kemba and Cam. I also think he had a lot of say with Grimes and Deuce and won the war with WWW.