[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Our season is over. What is your RX for the team in the offseason?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 6 of 13 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7  8 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
BigDaddyG
Posts: 39742
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049
5/16/2023  3:01 PM
foosballnick wrote:
blkexec wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

Did you just compare JB to Lowery with a str8 face?

We should learn from the Ewing era and not repeat it.

Give JB a team he can win a chip with while in his prime vs waiting until he’s Kyle lowery age since they are similar (lol). I couldn’t even type that with a str8 face. We just gonna disagree on that comparison and leave it there. Because lowery at 36 is not leading an nba team to a chip as the top player on his team. He’s not even a starter anymore. But he’s doing for Miami what drose can and should do for the Knicks.

My interpretation of the post was that regarding the need to make a move immediately we still have some time with Brunson. Note that Lowery appears to be much more effective on D than DRose which is why he maintains value even as a reserve at least IMO.

By more time do you mean as an NBA player in general? It's not realistic to expect Brunson to keep up his current production into his 30s. We need to strike while the iron is hot.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
Posts: 71065
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
5/16/2023  3:09 PM
foosballnick wrote:
VDesai wrote:Just tossing around scenarios if we really wanted to go "all in" for title contention-

1) Trade Mitch, Fournier, 1st round pick (and possibly additional picks) for Ayton. We love Mitch, but we know his limitations. His hands are rough, he doesn't finish as well as he should, has no range outside the basket and can't make free throws. Ayton is as good a rebounder, has more scoring talent (can make FTs and hit an occasional jumper) and has shown signs defensively. However he's a softy, inconsistent, a coach killer etc. However for the price he'd probably the be the easiest upgrade in the middle we could find.

2) To really go all in, follow up with Barrett, Rose (team opts him in to salary match) and Rokas for DeRozan. This is truly a win now move. DeRozan is not a shooter, but he plays the the Barrett role with more efficiency/consistency and is a proven clutch performer. Bulls get the younger player, that helps them re-set without downgrading that much talent wise. They get DRose's curtain call and a prospect in Rokas.

Knicks field a lineup of DeRozan-Randle-Ayton-Brunson-Grimes. Hart, Quickley, Hartenstein, Toppin, McBride on the bench. Its a pretty strong team with DeRozan adding some playoff/veteran moxie and Ayton is no stranger to the playoffs himself.


BUT...if you really want my opinion, I prefer to stay the course- just think the above is something that is do-able and puts you in a close place.

Don't mind thinking about bringing DeRozan here. Not a fan of Ayton though. Would rather go for a lower cost guy like Reid or even Brook who can also stretch the floor as a change or pace from Mitch/Hart.

There has to be a real maturity to Ayton where he has buy in to be that guy. its all lip service until done.
It has to be a thought about him being more. I agree, this version is not where you go. He loves or loathes Thibs. Love him he is an allstar. Loathe he is were he is but will be miserable.

Im thinking there is a three year window. it includes winning 50 games, then make it to round three. RJ can be better than Derozen. But when you "22" one is full of enthusiasm!! LOL He'll be 23 soon.
Philc1
Posts: 28279
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 9/2/2020
Member: #8897
5/16/2023  3:59 PM
Panos wrote:Is there any chance in the universe that EF wants out badly enough to waive his option?

MaTT4281
Posts: 34813
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #538
USA
5/16/2023  4:01 PM
ToddTT wrote:Ankle tape.

I'm several days late, but this wins!
jskinny35
Posts: 21580
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/27/2005
Member: #928
USA
5/16/2023  4:05 PM
I think the core going forward should be
Brunson, Grimes, IQ, Hart

Think we should keep unless a very good deal presents itself
RJ, Mitch, Hartenstein, Obi, McBride

Happy to move on from
Randle, D.Rose, Fournier,

Fine either way/Bench
D.Jeffries, Sims, Keels

While unlikely - I personally think the simplest move to positively impact the roster would be to trade Randle for Lauri Markanen (and Rudy Gay). Despite Randle being All-NBA 3rd team we'd probably have to add a 1st round pick and/or player to entice Ainge. I would then give RJ this season to see if he sinks or swims when the floor opens up more. Lauri gives you 20-25 and 8 rebounds but most importantly - he can play off Brunson and doesn't seem ego-focused on having to dominate the ball. He can catch and shoot, spaces the floor, and adds length which can always be helpful. Thibs will need to yell at him all year defensively - but not sure his effort won't be worse vs Randle's defensive effort.

Of course we could look into Phx and Ayton - but he's super soft and Mitch dominated him most games they played head to head. Randle on Phx would probably be an ideal fit though... playing 3rd star next to Booker and KD - perfect role!

Draymond Green and Kuminga could be intruiging options to explore as well.

There's always Lavine but suspect it would take Randle and RJ to land him - not sure he's good enough defensively and he has the knee issues.

We could also look toward RJ as the one to move but I maintain that eventually this FO will realize that finding the perfect fits around Randle is not the way to go.
NardDogNation
Posts: 27405
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555
5/16/2023  7:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/16/2023  8:00 PM
Anybody else think we should be looking into flipping Mitchell Robinson and Jericho Sims for DeAndre Ayton?

https://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2gv9rbe6
BigDaddyG
Posts: 39742
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049
5/16/2023  8:19 PM
I'd jump on that deal. I think the Suns would demand a package involving IQ tho.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
Posts: 27405
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555
5/16/2023  9:15 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:I'd jump on that deal. I think the Suns would demand a package involving IQ tho.

What's the market for Ayton though?
BigDaddyG
Posts: 39742
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049
5/16/2023  9:57 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:I'd jump on that deal. I think the Suns would demand a package involving IQ tho.

What's the market for Ayton though?

Tough to figure out. I'd guess somewhere close to OG. Centers are like running backs to me. I hesitate to give the long-term bag to one. But Ayton did get a lot of interest during his free agency. I think he'll have suitors. Suns are in panic mode to get someone to replace Paul and they really don't have an urgent need for Mitch.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
joec32033
Posts: 30606
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
5/16/2023  11:10 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:I'd jump on that deal. I think the Suns would demand a package involving IQ tho.

What's the market for Ayton though?

Tough to figure out. I'd guess somewhere close to OG. Centers are like running backs to me. I hesitate to give the long-term bag to one. But Ayton did get a lot of interest during his free agency. I think he'll have suitors. Suns are in panic mode to get someone to replace Paul and they really don't have an urgent need for Mitch.

Ayton is a great fit if he can work out his maturity issues. He seems very high maintenance and I'm not sure he is the type of player whom is worth it (IMO, he's a pretty good #3).

And I like the guy.

~You can't run from who you are.~
NardDogNation
Posts: 27405
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555
5/16/2023  11:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/16/2023  11:18 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:I'd jump on that deal. I think the Suns would demand a package involving IQ tho.

What's the market for Ayton though?

Tough to figure out. I'd guess somewhere close to OG. Centers are like running backs to me. I hesitate to give the long-term bag to one. But Ayton did get a lot of interest during his free agency. I think he'll have suitors. Suns are in panic mode to get someone to replace Paul and they really don't have an urgent need for Mitch.

I thought the exact opposite. It seemed like Ayton lingered in free agency for quite a while before signing that Indiana offer sheet. If not for them, I wonder how much longer he would've stayed in limbo because it seemed like teams were actively trying their best to find other, cheaper options. The Pistons came to mind, when they traded for Jalen Duren. We also come to mind with how quickly we locked up Robinson and signed Hartenstein.

Like you said, centers are the NBA's running backs and I don't see many teams clamoring to have Ayton in a max contract slot. I think a serviceable center or two like Mitchell Robinson, at a fraction of Ayton's pricepoint might be all it takes to get him. The Suns are already close to the 2nd tax apron and Ayton is a major malcontent, which leads me to believe that just getting rid of him would be considered a win by the Suns front office
Knixkik
Posts: 35411
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
5/16/2023  11:18 PM
NardDogNation wrote:Anybody else think we should be looking into flipping Mitchell Robinson and Jericho Sims for DeAndre Ayton?

https://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2gv9rbe6

I’d go for Ayton. I would offer Robinson and a couple picks. Phoenix can flip the picks to round out their roster.
Stevo718
Posts: 20456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #559
5/16/2023  11:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/16/2023  11:36 PM
I think we need to try to stop comparing are roster to other teams and what works for them. We have our own identity and need to fix our own weaknesses.
With that being said I wouldn’t trade Mitchell for Ayton. I think if we had a PF that actually made shots during the playoffs we wouldn’t be so worried about our center position. Mitchell brings an X factor that no other team has and that’s offensive rebounding (he’s the best).
Now if we had very efficient shooters then I’d consider trading Mitchell but he is one of the reasons we can afford to shoot poorly and still win games, along with high rebounding from Hart at that position and Randle.
Replace Randle with someone that puts out 18 points 9 rebounds, above average defense, and high efficiency shots and add a defensive, high efficiency scorer SF 20 points a game (Mikal Bridges) and we win a championship.

We can get plenty of scoring from all the other positions with the right trades and you guys are gonna miss him when he’s gone and wish we never traded him.
joec32033
Posts: 30606
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
5/16/2023  11:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/17/2023  12:18 AM
Nalod wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
VDesai wrote:Just tossing around scenarios if we really wanted to go "all in" for title contention-

1) Trade Mitch, Fournier, 1st round pick (and possibly additional picks) for Ayton. We love Mitch, but we know his limitations. His hands are rough, he doesn't finish as well as he should, has no range outside the basket and can't make free throws. Ayton is as good a rebounder, has more scoring talent (can make FTs and hit an occasional jumper) and has shown signs defensively. However he's a softy, inconsistent, a coach killer etc. However for the price he'd probably the be the easiest upgrade in the middle we could find.

2) To really go all in, follow up with Barrett, Rose (team opts him in to salary match) and Rokas for DeRozan. This is truly a win now move. DeRozan is not a shooter, but he plays the the Barrett role with more efficiency/consistency and is a proven clutch performer. Bulls get the younger player, that helps them re-set without downgrading that much talent wise. They get DRose's curtain call and a prospect in Rokas.

Knicks field a lineup of DeRozan-Randle-Ayton-Brunson-Grimes. Hart, Quickley, Hartenstein, Toppin, McBride on the bench. Its a pretty strong team with DeRozan adding some playoff/veteran moxie and Ayton is no stranger to the playoffs himself.


BUT...if you really want my opinion, I prefer to stay the course- just think the above is something that is do-able and puts you in a close place.

Don't mind thinking about bringing DeRozan here. Not a fan of Ayton though. Would rather go for a lower cost guy like Reid or even Brook who can also stretch the floor as a change or pace from Mitch/Hart.

There has to be a real maturity to Ayton where he has buy in to be that guy. its all lip service until done.
It has to be a thought about him being more. I agree, this version is not where you go. He loves or loathes Thibs. Love him he is an allstar. Loathe he is were he is but will be miserable.

Im thinking there is a three year window. it includes winning 50 games, then make it to round three. RJ can be better than Derozen. But when you "22" one is full of enthusiasm!! LOL He'll be 23 soon.

Why are you trading RJ for Derozan? Trade some picks and salary (maybe Toppin, maybe a Randle Derozan swap is there?)
I'm not trading that much youth for a player that close to retirement, especially when the team he is on is thinking of seriousl rebuilding around Lavine and needs to get Derozan off the roster.
Maybe a Randle and Fournier for Ayton and Shamet? Then Rose and Mitch for Derozan?


Brunson/IQ/McBride
Derozan/Grimes/Shamet
Barrett/jHart
Toppin
Ayton/iHart

Maybe Barrett can get some minutes as a small ball 4.

~You can't run from who you are.~
Chandler
Posts: 26774
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197
5/17/2023  8:01 AM
One thing to keep in mind when thinking about Mitch, or Steve Adams or other offensive rebounders, is that some of those guys get extra opportunities at those boards because they never shoot. They are always trying to get position for the offensive board

So when we’re looking for offensive rebounding looking at stats are helpful but eye test too.

I personally think we want someone who at least has some modicum of offense to keep the opponents defense honest.

If we do decide to upgrade at 5 there should be good value

We are desperate for shooting, particularly guys who are clutch

(5)(7)
jskinny35
Posts: 21580
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/27/2005
Member: #928
USA
5/17/2023  2:02 PM
Ayton or not - I don't believe he would fit well next to Randle as we need to open up the floor more and gain toughness. Unless Randle agrees to stay outside the 3pt line the entire season.
Nalod
Posts: 71065
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
5/17/2023  2:25 PM
jskinny35 wrote:Ayton or not - I don't believe he would fit well next to Randle as we need to open up the floor more and gain toughness. Unless Randle agrees to stay outside the 3pt line the entire season.

I disagree. Ayton has midrange game.
He is somone to pass to and can score. You open the floor up with movement. Mitch moves away his man does not follow. It not just about shooting.
Now if Ayton does not want to work with Thibs, then you pass. That I agree.
gradyandrew
Posts: 22403
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/19/2021
Member: #8959
5/18/2023  3:19 AM
Nalod wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Ayton or not - I don't believe he would fit well next to Randle as we need to open up the floor more and gain toughness. Unless Randle agrees to stay outside the 3pt line the entire season.

I disagree. Ayton has midrange game.
He is somone to pass to and can score. You open the floor up with movement. Mitch moves away his man does not follow. It not just about shooting.
Now if Ayton does not want to work with Thibs, then you pass. That I agree.

Why are we pushing chips on the.table for a guy that will possibly be an improvement? Just go for KAT if you want to make a move.
foosballnick
Posts: 21529
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/17/2010
Member: #3148
5/18/2023  7:26 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
blkexec wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:A lot of athleticism declines with age, obviously. One of the factors that tends to improve- shooting! More reps, more confidence on the court, more experience equals better shooting. I get chills thinking about thisexact same team 3 years down the line when Obi IQ RJ and Grimes are just hitting their prime, Brunson and Josh are in the middle, and Randle is younger than Jimmy Butler is now. Look at the Celtics and Nuggets. Same core for years and they are just hitting their primes. Thibs has built a squad that can contend for the next 5 years- and there's enough young talent coming in that we can build a sustainable bench. Keep it rolling.

good points. The fan typically wants instant change and we all looking at how we did vs Miami losing 4 of 6 and thats how we should react.
We still have Randle vs ATL on our minds and think “he can never perform in the playoffs.
He has not played 20 post seasons games.
Running it back and developing a core in this culture is appealing also. Requires patience and vision of what can be vs. what has.
Does not mean its complacent.
Also does not mean if there is a deal to be done they pass. Just seems this FO is not going to over pay.

Nope, we know that about rose. He will either bring everyone back with minor tweeks like trading EF. But there’s a time limit on patience. Brunson and Randle are in their prime now. To me the best time to swing for the fense is now. Build around Brunson with nba players that compliments him and his style.

Doesn't Brunson have a lot of similarities to Kyle Lowry? Brunson is 26 and Kyle is 37, so I don't really see the immediate rush.

Did you just compare JB to Lowery with a str8 face?

We should learn from the Ewing era and not repeat it.

Give JB a team he can win a chip with while in his prime vs waiting until he’s Kyle lowery age since they are similar (lol). I couldn’t even type that with a str8 face. We just gonna disagree on that comparison and leave it there. Because lowery at 36 is not leading an nba team to a chip as the top player on his team. He’s not even a starter anymore. But he’s doing for Miami what drose can and should do for the Knicks.

My interpretation of the post was that regarding the need to make a move immediately we still have some time with Brunson. Note that Lowery appears to be much more effective on D than DRose which is why he maintains value even as a reserve at least IMO.

By more time do you mean as an NBA player in general? It's not realistic to expect Brunson to keep up his current production into his 30s. We need to strike while the iron is hot.

By more time I mean that Brunson is 26 and not "into his 30's".
Knixkik
Posts: 35411
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
5/18/2023  7:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/18/2023  7:38 AM
gradyandrew wrote:
Nalod wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Ayton or not - I don't believe he would fit well next to Randle as we need to open up the floor more and gain toughness. Unless Randle agrees to stay outside the 3pt line the entire season.

I disagree. Ayton has midrange game.
He is somone to pass to and can score. You open the floor up with movement. Mitch moves away his man does not follow. It not just about shooting.
Now if Ayton does not want to work with Thibs, then you pass. That I agree.

Why are we pushing chips on the.table for a guy that will possibly be an improvement? Just go for KAT if you want to make a move.

Ayton is a good defensive center that has anchored a top defense in the league. He can also score and rebound. On paper he’s a good fit for thibs and alongside Randle. It just comes down to the personality fit.
Page 6 of 13 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7  8 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Our season is over. What is your RX for the team in the offseason?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy