foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Still just focussed on proving Randle is not that good. Lmao.
Thought it was about the Knicks not your hate for JR?
Answer the question, who do you think we can add instead of Randle?
Why would you get rid of a player with his salary and production level?
Why not keep the players that produce and add more good players?
Including a true number one?

So you're also saying Randle is on the same level as Dirk? That was my point. And the fact that you would have to go to such lengths to prove Randle's value shows how unsure you are. That stat was almost as bad as Mark Jackson's "Kobe told him to be great" rants about Booker in the playoffs a few years back. Booker and Randle are good players and if they ever become great, I'm sure their games will have spoken for themselves. But they are not close to the level of Dirk or Kobe. No need to cherry pick stats or make up narratives to come to conclusions that everyone knows are false.

Randle has not played as good as Dirk. Nor has he accomplished anything close to what he did. Your out here talking bout Dirk vs Randle? For what?

My point is what does that have to do with Randle playing well? The premise that Randle can be a piece on a chip team and the main thing you keep avoiding, why the 2023 Knicks need to trade him? Guess your point is he is not as good as Dirk so lets trade him? Lmao

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Still just focussed on proving Randle is not that good. Lmao.
Thought it was about the Knicks not your hate for JR?
Answer the question, who do you think we can add instead of Randle?
Why would you get rid of a player with his salary and production level?
Why not keep the players that produce and add more good players?
Including a true number one?

So you're also saying Randle is on the same level as Dirk? That was my point. And the fact that you would have to go to such lengths to prove Randle's value shows how unsure you are. That stat was almost as bad as Mark Jackson's "Kobe told him to be great" rants about Booker in the playoffs a few years back. Booker and Randle are good players and if they ever become great, I'm sure their games will have spoken for themselves. But they are not close to the level of Dirk or Kobe. No need to cherry pick stats or make up narratives to come to conclusions that everyone knows are false.

Randle has not played as good as Dirk. Nor has he accomplished anything close to what he did. Your out here talking bout Dirk vs Randle? For what?

My point is what does that have to do with Randle playing well? The premise that Randle can be a piece on a chip team and the main thing you keep avoiding, why the 2023 Knicks need to trade him? Guess your point is he is not as good as Dirk so lets trade him? Lmao

Maybe because of the point of my initial post is that the stats used to compare Randle to Dirk are weak. You just felt an urge to save your man. You love the dude so much, why don't you marry him. I'm sure he appreciates to shield his pride from us Internet barbarians.

Marry him? That's all you Bigdaddy.
Did someone comparing Dirk to Randle make you lose your ****?

Still yet to hear your response to simple question in our way too long drawn out discussion.
Why are the Knicks better off trading him?
Who we got coming back?
Or you sticking to just cuz? And not as good as Dirk?
You gotta have something logical with all that strong emotion?

Hoftra, can't force a fan to be the perfect GM and have the perfect plan when certain GMs can even meet your standard. For example, whats Leon Rose plans? Nobody knows until he makes the next move, then we speculate. So why are some of us requesting this level of detail from a fan who's a couch potatoe just like everybody else. I find that hilarous.

I love Grimes and think he could be one of the best players on the team. Would I trade Grimes if it's a move that improves the team, yes. Add in Deuce for good measure, since everybody thinks I'm a Deuce lover (hilarious). No player is untradeable.

blkexec wrote:It doesn't matter if a fan has or doesn't have a full blown plan on trading Randle and how that trade will lead to team improvements or a chip. Why are certain posters requiring this level of detail, when we can't even get an interview from Leon more than once a year.

Hoftra, can't force a fan to be the perfect GM and have the perfect plan when certain GMs can even meet your standard. For example, whats Leon Rose plans? Nobody knows until he makes the next move, then we speculate. So why are some of us requesting this level of detail from a fan who's a couch potatoe just like everybody else. I find that hilarous.

I love Grimes and think he could be one of the best players on the team. Would I trade Grimes if it's a move that improves the team, yes. Add in Deuce for good measure, since everybody thinks I'm a Deuce lover (hilarious). No player is untradeable.

Because its a ****ing message board of obsessed fans who generally crave insights, intrigue, debate, stats and modelling. Saying you are open to trading a guy in some future unknown and unspecific way to improve the team might float your boat, but plain vanilla statements add little value to message board content and dialog IMHO.

foosballnick wrote:

blkexec wrote:It doesn't matter if a fan has or doesn't have a full blown plan on trading Randle and how that trade will lead to team improvements or a chip. Why are certain posters requiring this level of detail, when we can't even get an interview from Leon more than once a year.

Hoftra, can't force a fan to be the perfect GM and have the perfect plan when certain GMs can even meet your standard. For example, whats Leon Rose plans? Nobody knows until he makes the next move, then we speculate. So why are some of us requesting this level of detail from a fan who's a couch potatoe just like everybody else. I find that hilarous.

I love Grimes and think he could be one of the best players on the team. Would I trade Grimes if it's a move that improves the team, yes. Add in Deuce for good measure, since everybody thinks I'm a Deuce lover (hilarious). No player is untradeable.

Because its a ****ing message board of obsessed fans who generally crave insights, intrigue, debate, stats and modelling. Saying you are open to trading a guy in some future unknown and unspecific way to improve the team might float your boat, but plain vanilla statements add little value to message board content and dialog IMHO.

A solid prospect and three unprotected firsts. I'll settle for two unprotected and a lightly protected if negotiations ever turned serious. And I believe I've thrown this idea out at least a couple of times this season. I won't go overboard with it because there's no point. The FO feels the treadmill is the safest way to keep their jobs.

BigDaddyG wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

We've had him for 4 years and how successful have we been. Logic? I think the posters who want to trade him may have seen enough and want better. Ainge had a better team in Utah and knew when it was time to change course. But you're sitting here all mesmerized by our mid three and our fight for play in. You're right, moving Randle for assets doesn't guarantee anything. But I'm also sure the current lineup really isn't good enough. Some of you are under the impression that this team is flush with desirable assets. Yeah, the Knicks are doing aight. But they aren't as high on the leaderboard as you think they are. It's already been leaked that the team didn't want to go all in on a Spida trade because they wanted to have enough to trade for a second star. If that's the case, how much does this organization feel it can even trust Randle?

The Knicks did not make the playoffs in 6 Seasons prior to the arrival of Randle. They made it in his second season with the team and are currently positioned tied for 7th in seeding. The year before he joined, the team won 17 games with a .207 winning percentage. Since he's been on the roster the team's winning percentage has increased to .461 over 3+ seasons.

I think you are creating a straw man by saying people are mesmerized by the play in. No one here is under the impression that this is a championship roster at this point.....nor is anyone saying that Randle is a 1A player.

What I am seeing posted is that the team is one of the youngest in the NBA and has steadily improved with Randle as it's best player and now complimented by Brunson. The young roster pieces around them are still a developing work in progress. Not sure why you blow up a team that is still young and developing and not done building. You bring up Ainge blowing things up in Utah. But you fail to mention that he was a new GM to a team and moved parts that were generally older than the Knicks.

You say you've seen enough and want to trade Randle because you want better.....fair enough, but what does that mean? Are you trading him to make room for Obi? How does that make the team better and if not what are you replacing him with that will make the team the better that you crave?

I have no problem trading any player on the Knicks - but it does not seem prudent in the middle of an all star level season with playoffs in the mix. Further, consider that unless you are pining for Kyrie - you are not looking at any 1A players on the prospective Free Agent list this offseason and any other player who can ascend to an all star performance level will probably come in a a higher salary figure than Randle. If you are looking for picks back for Randle - it will likely come from a team that is in contention and looking to add to the roster - so the picks will likely not be high enough to grab a lotto choice. That leaves a deadline trade for player(s). There's a lot of talk about Randle's lack of reliability - but not really sure what he would bring back that would make the Knicks measurably better both now and in the future.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Still just focussed on proving Randle is not that good. Lmao.
Thought it was about the Knicks not your hate for JR?
Answer the question, who do you think we can add instead of Randle?
Why would you get rid of a player with his salary and production level?
Why not keep the players that produce and add more good players?
Including a true number one?

So you're also saying Randle is on the same level as Dirk? That was my point. And the fact that you would have to go to such lengths to prove Randle's value shows how unsure you are. That stat was almost as bad as Mark Jackson's "Kobe told him to be great" rants about Booker in the playoffs a few years back. Booker and Randle are good players and if they ever become great, I'm sure their games will have spoken for themselves. But they are not close to the level of Dirk or Kobe. No need to cherry pick stats or make up narratives to come to conclusions that everyone knows are false.

Randle has not played as good as Dirk. Nor has he accomplished anything close to what he did. Your out here talking bout Dirk vs Randle? For what?

My point is what does that have to do with Randle playing well? The premise that Randle can be a piece on a chip team and the main thing you keep avoiding, why the 2023 Knicks need to trade him? Guess your point is he is not as good as Dirk so lets trade him? Lmao

Maybe because of the point of my initial post is that the stats used to compare Randle to Dirk are weak. You just felt an urge to save your man. You love the dude so much, why don't you marry him. I'm sure he appreciates to shield his pride from us Internet barbarians.

Marry him? That's all you Bigdaddy.
Did someone comparing Dirk to Randle make you lose your ****?

Still yet to hear your response to simple question in our way too long drawn out discussion.
Why are the Knicks better off trading him?
Who we got coming back?
Or you sticking to just cuz? And not as good as Dirk?
You gotta have something logical with all that strong emotion?

There you go again. Hijacking threads to prove your loyalty. Why not go back to our previous conversation. No strong emotion. My initial post was about the poor use of stats and you felt compelled to slink in with your man love. Nothing wrong with it but it is tiresome.

Fair enough. Did you not see my Dirk/Randle response?
He is not as good as Dirk. Has not accomplished as much.
My response added the question, is that your barometer for trading Randle?
You responded insinuating a second hand marriage proposal?

I don't understand guys that claim it's best to trade Randle?
You would think the reasons are endless. As they were this past summer.

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

A posting style reminiscent of absolutist, closed minded, politicians, are sucking the life out of this forum. And those who enable them. Who label posters they disagree with as "haters". We're all overgrown kids here to some degree, arguing about hoops as much as we do. But the liberal use of that expression, is particularly childish.

One thing you will find in this thread are criticisms from the entire board about Randle, but all being attributed to me as having stated this season as a reason to trade him. You just added that I want to trade Randle, and tank on this list.

Please produce one post where I said that..ever. This is the straight from politics BS that some of you are trafficking in, but seem to have a problem with my calling out.

Even after Randle's big let down of a season. After Brunson was signed, while the entire board was advocating, or accepted Randle having a greatly reduced role, when it came to initiating the offense. I was writing that Randle still should have a role in starting a fastbreak, bringing up the ball, setting up the offense. Where was that "visceral hate" then? Would love to hear that explanation.

Its not complicated. The season started and I came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence that Randle, while showing All-Star potential, isnt reliable enough to have the role in the team's success that he does. No "hate" no animosity, I just decided that if the opportunity to get a good return on a trade involving Randle arises, then the FO should go for it. Thats it

If you believe Randle is tradeable then thats what we should be talking about. Not this drama about my motivation.

You're right in that we are all overgrown kids arguing and debating. Not sure where you've been or if you forgot your big boy pants - but that's the nature of Sports Fan Forums - which can get testy and where motivation is called out on the carpet when positions and comments are not backed-up.

Perhaps the issue is that you get defensive when challenged on an opinion you offer which is made with little logical reasoning. Without backup then the debate moves to motivation.

You've stated that you want to trade Randle because he "Isn't Reliable Enough". That's a pretty vague rationale and becomes a really muddy position for other forum readers that naturally leads to other questions and given that he is performing at a high level - suspicions of motivation. How does his reliability compare to other players on the Knicks and comparable players in the league? What is a good return? Why would you trade a player that is All Star caliber when other players on the team have reliability questions as well? Why do you not think he can have a role in the team's success? What is your view of a roadmap to success? Who are you replacing him with? How reliable is that player?

I dont believe making up BS about what I wrote, and the first and last word out of a poster being "hater".To be an example of "having your big boy pants on". Quite the contrary I see it as an example of posters who need their diapers changed.

Where has Randle taken this team since joining the Knicks? How many playoff wins? How many rings?
What has he done as a player for you to feel so strongly that trading Randle is such a bad idea? I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Thats so damned easy to do. I dont see a player that I trust to play at a high level consistently. Do you see it from season to season, or only in spots?

To me its easy to condemn a player when he's off and bark out "I don't trust him" or "get rid of him". Its easy to pick out flaws. Its easy to ignore that performance has its ups and downs for 95% of professional athletes. But hey....I'll just replace Daniel Jones and plug in Pat Mahomes like its a video game. Kick out Randle and plug in KG.....presto!!!

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

A posting style reminiscent of absolutist, closed minded, politicians, are sucking the life out of this forum. And those who enable them. Who label posters they disagree with as "haters". We're all overgrown kids here to some degree, arguing about hoops as much as we do. But the liberal use of that expression, is particularly childish.

One thing you will find in this thread are criticisms from the entire board about Randle, but all being attributed to me as having stated this season as a reason to trade him. You just added that I want to trade Randle, and tank on this list.

Please produce one post where I said that..ever. This is the straight from politics BS that some of you are trafficking in, but seem to have a problem with my calling out.

Even after Randle's big let down of a season. After Brunson was signed, while the entire board was advocating, or accepted Randle having a greatly reduced role, when it came to initiating the offense. I was writing that Randle still should have a role in starting a fastbreak, bringing up the ball, setting up the offense. Where was that "visceral hate" then? Would love to hear that explanation.

Its not complicated. The season started and I came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence that Randle, while showing All-Star potential, isnt reliable enough to have the role in the team's success that he does. No "hate" no animosity, I just decided that if the opportunity to get a good return on a trade involving Randle arises, then the FO should go for it. Thats it

If you believe Randle is tradeable then thats what we should be talking about. Not this drama about my motivation.

You're right in that we are all overgrown kids arguing and debating. Not sure where you've been or if you forgot your big boy pants - but that's the nature of Sports Fan Forums - which can get testy and where motivation is called out on the carpet when positions and comments are not backed-up.

Perhaps the issue is that you get defensive when challenged on an opinion you offer which is made with little logical reasoning. Without backup then the debate moves to motivation.

You've stated that you want to trade Randle because he "Isn't Reliable Enough". That's a pretty vague rationale and becomes a really muddy position for other forum readers that naturally leads to other questions and given that he is performing at a high level - suspicions of motivation. How does his reliability compare to other players on the Knicks and comparable players in the league? What is a good return? Why would you trade a player that is All Star caliber when other players on the team have reliability questions as well? Why do you not think he can have a role in the team's success? What is your view of a roadmap to success? Who are you replacing him with? How reliable is that player?

I dont believe making up BS about what I wrote, and the first and last word out of a poster being "hater".To be an example of "having your big boy pants on". Quite the contrary I see it as an example of posters who need their diapers changed.

Where has Randle taken this team since joining the Knicks? How many playoff wins? How many rings?
What has he done as a player for you to feel so strongly that trading Randle is such a bad idea? I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Thats so damned easy to do. I dont see a player that I trust to play at a high level consistently. Do you see it from season to season, or only in spots?

Will add this to the Gustav reasons for trading Randle.
Where has 95% of the top players in the league "taken their teams"?

You mean you "don't judge a player on stats"? No ****?
It's obvious to judge a player or prudent trade in stats, market value, proposed return, level of improvement, or how that makes a team better. At least you are getting closer to why you are wrong.

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

Panos wrote:Ok. Trade proposal:
Chicago trades peak Scottie Pippen for Randle.
Who says no? Why?

LA Trades still dangerous LeBron to NY, making Randle being clutch less necessary with the GOAT as the number one option.

Pippen+GOAT(Jordan)= Championship

Randle+GOAT(LBJ)= ????

Ive said that if we can keep Randle and add James, and leave a roster good enough to contend, I hope the FO goes for it. Otherwise, I'd like to see the FO try that formula with another player.

To answer your question about a 4th option. Im mostly talking about crunch time, not touches. A team could have a very clutch 6th man ahead of Randle in those situations. Not necessarily putting up better numbers.

Please answer the essence of the question.
Is there any reason why championship Jordan teams would do worse with Randle as #2?

You cant handle the truth!

You need Pippen on that wall!!

OK, maybe not. But you need the greatest basketball player, playoff performer, in NBA history, in this hypothetical, to make your argument. Which was what I was getting at.

Those championship Bulls teams were a well oiled machine. Everyone knew their role and performed them at a high level, consistently. I honestly dont know if Randle could do the consistency part.

In fairness, Ron Harper took some time to become that player in Chicago. But I honestly cant venture a guess. that franchise really had its act together. Even when they were fighting lol. They found a way to make things work.

Forget Jordan.
Why are you going to such lengths NOT to answer the question.
Why is Pippen a better #2 than Randle? Which facet of the game?

What a buzzkill..

This is some fantasy sports/time travel scenario, Im supposed to solve??

You are upset that Im not answering the question exactly the way you want me to. For me to do that, I would have to accept the premise of a current player whose game is the result (in part) of 25+ years of BBall evolution. Going back in time, and then comparing individual stats.

Not factor at all in how Randle would respond to a completely different team, situation, as a human being. Not to mention your premise involves the best player of all time, which will skew the results, to say the least.

My answer is I dont know if Pippen is a better fit. There are too many variables. Not just about stats, or a player's game. Or you could plug in any 20/10 player next to Jordan.

The Pippen led Bulls took us to the limit in 93-94, as the number one option. Could Randle have done the same? Since we're going off on a tangent..

Here's some history: Julius has a higher efg% (.544/.529p) rebs (09.9/8.9) and assts (3.8/3.4) than Dirk Nowitzki in his MVP year (both age 28/9th season). Dirk averaged more points (24.6 vs. 24.2). If Dirk can win a championship, I'm sure it's possible for Randle as well. It's all about team building.

As far as wanting a "no. 1", who are the guys that fit your criteria?

KD
LBJ
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Kawhi
Tatum
Morant
Butler
Booker
Paul George

anyone else?

Why cherry pick seasons. Anyone who sees this will naturally want to see how both players compare for their careers. Once they do they'll see that one is a HOFer and the other is a guy who's had a couple of good seasons intermingled with a bunch of underwhelming ones.

Good point. They ask why I would be OK with a Randle trade now. Because I didnt want to trade him when he was playing poorly, and we would have received little in return. Because you dont know which player we will be getting from season to season. Because Randle hasnt shown an ability to be clutch, after so many years in the league. Im not expecting that to change at this point in his career.

They talk about going back in time 25 years and comparing him to a player with 6 rings, just on stats. Its crazy, no one is untouchable.

⁴
Quote "Lmao.
The new go to Randle hate. "He is not clutch"
First it was:
20/10s are meaningless.
He was not in the team huddle.
He doesn't play defense.
He has too many spin TO's
He does not pass.
He does not handle double teams well.
He is not liked by teammates.
He loses control of emotions.
Told fans to **** off."

Edit.
He is not as good as Dirk.
Trade him because he is better than last year and playing like an All Star again.

Randle per 36 for entire career 21/10.7/4.1

Thank you Ron DeSantis. Just substitute "hate" with "woke". Same style, or lack thereof.

I dont know what makes you believe that even the suggestion of trading Randle merits this passionate a response, and frankly I dont care. You're not defending Randle like this when he's playing poorly are you? Only someone who believes Randle is untradeable would be reacting this obnoxiously.

Thats it, you believe Randle is untradeable.

TBH posts and analogies bringing politics into the discussion pretty much suck the life out of this forum. You must be reading a different thread because no one here is saying Randle is untradeable. What they are reacting to is the relative lack of logical rational used by posters like you for wanting to "dump"(sorry - trade) Randle. It really makes no sense without understanding the return or the roadmap towards success. As I posted previously - just dumping Randle in order to tank does not equate to success. As such - just seems like you have a visceral negativity about Randle that is driving the desire to move him really without logical reasoning. If not that, why would you not also want to move on from Brunson and RJ who both are taking up similar cap space ranges and have no long term resume of success?

A posting style reminiscent of absolutist, closed minded, politicians, are sucking the life out of this forum. And those who enable them. Who label posters they disagree with as "haters". We're all overgrown kids here to some degree, arguing about hoops as much as we do. But the liberal use of that expression, is particularly childish.

One thing you will find in this thread are criticisms from the entire board about Randle, but all being attributed to me as having stated this season as a reason to trade him. You just added that I want to trade Randle, and tank on this list.

Please produce one post where I said that..ever. This is the straight from politics BS that some of you are trafficking in, but seem to have a problem with my calling out.

Even after Randle's big let down of a season. After Brunson was signed, while the entire board was advocating, or accepted Randle having a greatly reduced role, when it came to initiating the offense. I was writing that Randle still should have a role in starting a fastbreak, bringing up the ball, setting up the offense. Where was that "visceral hate" then? Would love to hear that explanation.

Its not complicated. The season started and I came to the conclusion that there was enough evidence that Randle, while showing All-Star potential, isnt reliable enough to have the role in the team's success that he does. No "hate" no animosity, I just decided that if the opportunity to get a good return on a trade involving Randle arises, then the FO should go for it. Thats it

If you believe Randle is tradeable then thats what we should be talking about. Not this drama about my motivation.

You're right in that we are all overgrown kids arguing and debating. Not sure where you've been or if you forgot your big boy pants - but that's the nature of Sports Fan Forums - which can get testy and where motivation is called out on the carpet when positions and comments are not backed-up.

Perhaps the issue is that you get defensive when challenged on an opinion you offer which is made with little logical reasoning. Without backup then the debate moves to motivation.

You've stated that you want to trade Randle because he "Isn't Reliable Enough". That's a pretty vague rationale and becomes a really muddy position for other forum readers that naturally leads to other questions and given that he is performing at a high level - suspicions of motivation. How does his reliability compare to other players on the Knicks and comparable players in the league? What is a good return? Why would you trade a player that is All Star caliber when other players on the team have reliability questions as well? Why do you not think he can have a role in the team's success? What is your view of a roadmap to success? Who are you replacing him with? How reliable is that player?

I dont believe making up BS about what I wrote, and the first and last word out of a poster being "hater".To be an example of "having your big boy pants on". Quite the contrary I see it as an example of posters who need their diapers changed.

Where has Randle taken this team since joining the Knicks? How many playoff wins? How many rings?
What has he done as a player for you to feel so strongly that trading Randle is such a bad idea? I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Thats so damned easy to do. I dont see a player that I trust to play at a high level consistently. Do you see it from season to season, or only in spots?

Will add this to the Gustav reasons for trading Randle.
Where has 95% of the top players in the league "taken their teams"?

You mean you "don't judge a player on stats"? No ****?
It's obvious to judge a player or prudent trade in stats, market value, proposed return, level of improvement, or how that makes a team better. At least you are getting closer to why you are wrong.

You child, you bolded half the sentence to put it in a completely different context. I dont just judge a player on stats when they're playing well. Like your bandwagoning ass. I look at the times when he's playing poorly as well.

This is a joke, I've been a few steps ahead of you on what precisely Randle brings to the table, every step of the way. You've got no business doing your crazy Randle superfan act on me.